Wanted: Small cellar cooling unit - window style

[andrewpc]

Over the summer months I've been converting the corner of my garage to an insulated cellar space. All the hard work is done and I am now looking for a good quality second hand cellar conditioner/cooler for the space. Its 8m3 and heavily insulated and would suit one of the through the wall/window type models (Fondis, Cellarpro, WineGuardian etc). On the off chance that anyone here has something they are looking to sell, please get in touch. They are rare on the used market and Im trying to manage my budget carefully. Im based in Sydney, but would consider shipping if you were also happy with that.

If these kind of posts aren't allowed, apologies, please delete.

Thanks

[asajoseph]

Hi Andrew...

My 2c on this - I can't offer you a used unit, but I can perhaps offer some advice, as I've done a very similar thing to you. I'm also in Sydney, and also have an above-grade insulated cellar (assume yours is too - but not sure).

I was looking at various cooling units for a while, and never once came across a 2nd hand one. Before spending time & money installing something (particularly a 2nd hand unit that you will have no real idea on likely longevity), I'd suggest buying:

1) A 2nd hand portable AC unit (make sure you get all the venting too).
2) An Ubibot climate sensor
3) An external temperature probe, which you can insert into a liquid-filled wine bottle

I would then use this over the course of a season or two (ideally next summer, though that's a while to wait!) to see how well your cellar area holds its temperature. I did this, and despite insulating really heavily, I noticed that without the AC actually running, the cellar area returned to around 20 degrees within an hour or two (never seemed to go higher than this, even on hot days). It's important that you understand the environment that you've created, before you fill it with $1000s of wine.

What I've managed to do now though, using the charting function on the Ubibot app, is set a schedule that basically keeps the temperature in the bottle between 14.5-15.5 degrees more or less constantly. That's fractionally warm - but better than most 'cellars' you'll find in this country (I know Halliday runs his personal cellar a lot warmer than this!!!).

Let us know how you get on.

[Michael McNally]

What I've managed to do now though, using the charting function on the Ubibot app, is set a schedule that basically keeps the temperature in the bottle between 14.5-15.5 degrees more or less constantly. That's fractionally warm - but better than most 'cellars' you'll find in this country (I know Halliday runs his personal cellar a lot warmer than this!!!).

Let us know how you get on.

I think 14-16 degrees is fine unless you want to store things for a really long time.

Cheers

Michael

[limkeith]

Hi Andrew

I am looking to do the same with my garage.

What kind of insulation did you use for the walls and ceiling?

Did you need to insulate the floor too?

Advice is appreciated.

Keith

[asajoseph]

For what it's worth, I used material readily available in most Bunnings stores - Foilboard, combined with R2.7 Earthwool Fibreglass insulation.

I didn't insulate my floor, but I'm wondering in hindsight if I should have...

[andrewpc]

Thank you all for the great feedback and suggestions. I apologise for the delayed response on this one.

In the end I was not able to source a specialised unit at the right size and price but ended up (as per asajoseph's suggestion) using a standard air conditioner. Its keeping the cellar comfortably at 16 degrees and around 70% humidity at the moment.

In regards to the request for more info, I hope this helps.

The build started in early November and has been primarily done on weekends and in spare evenings and was finished in April. Its an approx 2m x 2m x 2m room which utilises two original walls of the garage (a simple but old wooden stud garage on a concrete slab) to which I added two new stud walls plus the ceiling and raised floor. I used a double layer of insulation on all 6 sides:

• 50mm Foilboard on the original walls and new floor between the frame (given the risk of moisture in these areas)
• 90mm R2.5HD Earthwool batts on the inner walls and ceiling (between the frame)
• 75mm Heavy duty foil clad Polyiso as the inner cellar side insulation (on top of the frame) which acts as the cladding and vapor barrier. All the joins were siliconed and taped with aluminium tape.

I then used a 4mm foam reflective foil insulation as external cladding

The flooring is 19mm structaflor with a basic 4mm nylon carpet tile over the top.

The racking was custom ordered from Cellarack in Melbourne. Its excellent quality and highly recommended. It lifts the visuals too.

It comfortably fits ~800 bottles.

For cooling, after the post I made some months ago, I ended up going with a second hand conventional 1.6KW Kelvinator window air conditioner mounted through what was an old original window. It seems to be working well so far (Ive done some thermostat tweaking) but I plan to enhance it with a digital controller for more accurate temps and hysteresis control. Currently the compressor kicks in very infrequently (powered between 9am and 9pm) for about 10 minutes each time so it should be pretty energy efficient, but the true test will be in Summer.

For the door, I bought a second hand solid hardwood door from gumtree. I built the frame around that size and added a basic jamb. I then insulated the inside of the door with more 75mm polyiso. I put EPDM rubber stripping around the inside of the door. For a latch and locking, I bought a coolroom door lock online which has an outside lever, surface mount latch and internal release. It works well

I was previously running two Kitchener peltier fridges which are very good, but accessibility of bottles is difficult stacked double deep. Furthermore, without a compressor, they are cost efficient but do struggle in Summer heat and are only insulated to a depth of about 50mm. I think they would work better inside, or in a garage that fluctuates in heat less than mine.

Im super happy with the result. I dont have any trade/building skills so it was just learning on the job. Im sure I made plenty of mistakes but it was a fun experience with a great outcome.

Let me know if you want some pics..

[A_Steady]

I would love to see some pics

[Polymer]

Same..sounds really cool. I always love seeing people's DIY cellars...

[andrewpc]

Here you go. The first one shows the corner of the garage before I started, and then it's an evolution from there

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ws2CeDU3x9Bkpt8M8



[link updated Aug 2022 as old links were broken]

[michel]

I am seriously impressed
It takes work
But you will not regret

[Polymer]

That's some great work there!

Any thoughts on racking system vs. shelves+boxes? Racking looks nicer, makes things more accessible vs. more space but just wanted to see what considerations you had.

[A_Steady]

Thanks andrewpc, an impressive result you can be proud of.

I am feeling inspired to explore costings to do similar

[Cloth Ears]

Here you go. The first one shows the corner of the garage before I started, and then it's an evolution from there.

[url=https://ibb.co/yQ7PjbN][img]https://i.ibb.co/yQ7PjbN/IMG-20191130-114639.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/5jX3wg1][img]https://i.ibb.co/5jX3wg1/IMG-20191208-142402.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/wBFsnJ4][img]https://i.ibb.co/wBFsnJ4/IMG-20191208-142414.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/YT54Nr9][img]https://i.ibb.co/YT54Nr9/IMG-20191221-174032.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/fNfWvtk][img]https://i.ibb.co/fNfWvtk/IMG-20191227-162458.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/M558n2P][img]https://i.ibb.co/M558n2P/IMG-20191227-162507.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/k15jCW5][img]https://i.ibb.co/k15jCW5/IMG-20191229-140238.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/NmLJVWk][img]https://i.ibb.co/NmLJVWk/IMG-20200102-110636.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/5rz35z9][img]https://i.ibb.co/5rz35z9/IMG-20200103-120617.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/RyJMp7g][img]https://i.ibb.co/RyJMp7g/IMG-20200112-170740.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/fM7LB8W][img]https://i.ibb.co/fM7LB8W/IMG-20200114-105139.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/hLzGxNs][img]https://i.ibb.co/hLzGxNs/IMG-20200115-072041-PANO.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/D7B48Kh][img]https://i.ibb.co/D7B48Kh/IMG-20200119-204512.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/GT0W7qc][img]https://i.ibb.co/GT0W7qc/IMG-20200205-205620.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/9hpdQJT][img]https://i.ibb.co/9hpdQJT/IMG-20200206-211055.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/6X9pYTL][img]https://i.ibb.co/6X9pYTL/IMG-20200215-092500.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/Pc26mNk][img]https://i.ibb.co/Pc26mNk/IMG-20200229-140340.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/r5k4FG4][img]https://i.ibb.co/r5k4FG4/IMG-20200308-145708.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/KxKR00J][img]https://i.ibb.co/KxKR00J/IMG-20200308-145717.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/PzZpSN7][img]https://i.ibb.co/PzZpSN7/IMG-20200316-170945.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/VqvGQfx][img]https://i.ibb.co/VqvGQfx/IMG-20200316-171112.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/hfwS3LL][img]https://i.ibb.co/hfwS3LL/IMG-20200329-170657.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/HKzPwHn][img]https://i.ibb.co/HKzPwHn/IMG-20200404-124243.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/0cbfrTn][img]https://i.ibb.co/0cbfrTn/IMG-20200405-210322.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/CWv8SdQ][img]https://i.ibb.co/CWv8SdQ/IMG-20200405-210328.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/dktXdvG][img]https://i.ibb.co/dktXdvG/IMG-20200405-210330.jpg[/img][/url] [url=https://ibb.co/vszb8NT][img]https://i.ibb.co/vszb8NT/IMG-20200411-181847.jpg[/img][/url]

Nice looking unit, Andrew!

I built a similar one a few years back which fits in the back or our car garage (2.4 x 1.3 x 2.2 - L x W x H) and runs a second hand Eurocave unit. I'ts been pumping along nicely for over 3 years. Not quite as neat on the inside as yours, but I mostly have cases in there in Bunnings shelving, with a rack on the end wall.

For the walls, I used Hardies Villaboard, 75mm or air and 30mm Kinspan Kooltherm (with a 3mm panel outside that). Studs are 75mm and the corner posts were 100mm cedar. All from Bunnings (they actually gave me a 10% discount on the Kooltherm as I found it cheaper somewhere else). Floor was similar, with a 19mm sheet of good ply on top.

The Eurocave unit was a fully refurbished second-hand item and it hasn't missed a beat. About half price at $2400 (I think) and it keeps the inside at 15 degrees and about 70% humidity.

I actually made it portable. As long as I empty it first!!! You can slide the tines of a forklift underneath it and it'll pick up as a single unit.

Good to see someone else did it themselves!!!