NEWS: Bass Phillip sold

[TiggerK]

It's a pity you've never had a good BP Ozzie, while rare, they do exist and some do get better with age. But we can only judge on the bottles we've had!

[Ozzie W]

It's a pity you've never had a good BP Ozzie, while rare, they do exist and some do get better with age. But we can only judge on the bottles we've had!

Seems a bit like my experience with Cullen. If you have a large enough sample size, you'll eventually get a good bottle.

[ticklenow1]

It's a pity you've never had a good BP Ozzie, while rare, they do exist and some do get better with age. But we can only judge on the bottles we've had!

Seems a bit like my experience with Cullen. If you have a large enough sample size, you'll eventually get a good bottle.

Kind of agree about Cullen, particularly the reds. Had several Diana Madeleine's and have never been that impressed, especially for the money asked. Cullen Chardonnay's on the other hand are very nice.

I've only ever had one Bass Phillip and was not impressed at all. But I'm not a Pinot drinker, so not the right person to judge.

Cheers
Ian

[Mahmoud Ali]

I've no experience with Bass Phillip but by the sounds of it they are ugly ducklings and few survive to turn into swans.

[Polymer]

I've no experience with Bass Phillip but by the sounds of it they are ugly ducklings and few survive to turn into swans.

Probably depends more on how much wildness you're ok with in a wine...

If you don't mind a bit, you'll probably like most of the BPs you like...if you can't stand any, you'll probably dislike most...

And while I can't totally understand why people would think these are overrated or its a case of the Emperors new clothes....I've had these and seen these served blind far too often to think that.....

[Mahmoud Ali]

I certainly don't mind feral qualities in a wine Polymer, in fact I require an element of it in an aged pinot, but there must be other elements there as well. What I meant by "ugly duckling" was that perhaps the BP are opened too soon and never make it to swan-hood (is that even a word?)

Cheers .............................. Mahmoud.

Edited: deleted two words that cluttered the middle of the second sentence.

[cleanskinlover]

I've never understood what all the fuss is about with this producer. I don't think I've ever had a good one.

They're one of the few Aussie producers of Pinot Noir that manage a traditional Burgundian style IMO (wild, savoury-fruited, elegant and with suave tannin texture).

If by faulty, people here are referring to Brett and VA, then I agree they are, I just don't consider that faulty in Bass Phillip. I'd argue that is one of the defining features of the Bass Philip style (and actually, to my tastes, better for it) - it can also be argued that it's a part of the traditional Burgundian style of Pinot.

Bass Phillip can certainly be hit and miss in terms of oxidation/flatness, which makes them a risky proposition. But actually, a lot of red Burgundy for the same price (Australian retail) is of lower quality and/or can be risky (dull/unbalanced/etc), so I'm not sure that their pricing is entirely unexpected for the style (expensive though the wines are).

I am struggling to think of other Aussie producers of Pinot Noir that can offer the same wild and savoury style with Burgundian-like elegance and tannin-texture. There are plenty of good Aussie producers of Pinot Noir, but I don't think there are many that provide those hallmarks for that style, especially at significantly lower prices. I await the flames here, of course

Respectfully disagree.

It is drawing a long bow to compare the savoury aspect of Burgundy to wine that is simply faulty, which has been the case with several of the Bass Phillip wine I have tried.

I respectfully disagree with your disagreement. Since jumping on BP from 2010 vintage onward I have found the wines to be great. From the value proposition of BP Old Cellar $40 all the way up the wines are magnificent and the benchmark of Australian Pinot Noir. If funk is required you can go the Crown Prince ( my least favored of the line up ), the Estate is a Bargain at $75-85. I've never had a bad one. Why shouldn't Australian Pinot Noir sell for $750 a bottle.

[Benchmark]

Haha. We shall agree to disagree on disagreement.

Interesting that you have never had a bad one and others have struggled to find a good one.

The only reason an Australian pinot noir should not sell for over $750 a bottle is if wine drinkers consistently find the product faulty.

[cleanskinlover]

Haha. We shall agree to disagree on disagreement.

Interesting that you have never had a bad one and others have struggled to find a good one.

The only reason an Australian pinot noir should not sell for over $750 a bottle is if wine drinkers consistently find the product faulty.

Interestingly, I poured a glass of 2013 Reserve BP blind to a a guy that would retail 2-3 Million of Burgundy/Bordeaux/Barolo annually and he mistook it for Grand Cru Burgundy! Good thanks!

[phillisc]

Interestingly this thread now reminds me of something...just can't put my hand on it
Oh that's right, how big's...

Cheers Craig

[Mahmoud Ali]

What - $750 a bottle for Bass Philips? Surely I have misunderstood.

What is that saying about a fool and his (or her) money ...

[Benchmark]

Haha. We shall agree to disagree on disagreement.

Interesting that you have never had a bad one and others have struggled to find a good one.

The only reason an Australian pinot noir should not sell for over $750 a bottle is if wine drinkers consistently find the product faulty.

Interestingly, I poured a glass of 2013 Reserve BP blind to a a guy that would retail 2-3 Million of Burgundy/Bordeaux/Barolo annually and he mistook it for Grand Cru Burgundy! Good thanks!

I will take 'things that never happened' for $100 thanks Alex

Just messing about.

[Polymer]

I certainly don't mind feral qualities in a wine Polymer, in fact I require an element of it in an aged pinot, but there must be other elements there as well. What i meant by "ugly duckling" was that perhaps the BP are that when opened too soon and never make it to swan-hood (is that even a word?)

Cheers .............................. Mahmoud.

That's just it..the other elements are there...Someone said they've served it to someone that mistook it for GC Burgundy? Seen that happen plenty of times...It gets mistaken for Burgundy at 1er and GC level quite often.

It is still pretty poor value though....I think on the lower end it is decent enough but it quickly gets out of hand...the Reserve is outrageous....

[sjw_11]

So according to one anonymous blind taster this wine (or at least one vintage and one bottle thereof) is possibly equivalent to Grand Cru in quality but still more expensive than many of those same Grand Cru Burgundies despite the fact that they are already among the worst QPR wines in the world?

Ok then... I will pass thanks.

Seriously browsing these wines is astonishing, I have never seen so many proudly 89-92 point rated wines (despite all the point inflation of the critics) going for €200 (even in France without any of the tax and shipping issues when you buy them in Oz)...

[felixp21]

there are still poor GC wines in Burgundy, referring specifically to some producers of Clos Vougeot and Echezeaux. (a couple of Cortons too)
so, in that respect, I could understand the mistake of mistaking the BP Reserve for a GC Burgundy. But in terms of texture, focus, fruit quality and characteristics, France and Australia are far apart when it comes to PN.
importing wine doesn't give you a good palate, there are plenty of importers, very large importers, that have the palates of Yaks. (particularly in the USA )
I'm not really interested in the debate in comparing BP to Burgundy, I am far more interested in comparing it to other Australian pinots.
Frankly, there are a raft of Aussie PN producers who I feel consistently produce better wines than BP at all levels. So many in the Yarra Valley, and a number in Tasmania. I probably taste BP 8-10 times a year, almost always the Reserve or the Premium, and it is never mind-blowing. Certainly nothing like the wine some of our critics rave about.

OTOH, the premium chardonnay is an absolute gem, and for me, a far better wine than any of their pinots.

[brodie]

Interestingly, I poured a glass of 2013 Reserve BP blind to a a guy that would retail 2-3 Million of Burgundy/Bordeaux/Barolo annually and he mistook it for Grand Cru Burgundy! Good thanks!

Big deal; everyone's palate and tastes are different. I prefer my own palate to other people's palates to be honest. The amount of wine he sells is completely irrelevant. In my experience there is little to no correlation between tasting abilities and business abilities. Good luck to him, but his palate preferences are of no interest to me.

I hope you continue to enjoy and like the BP wines, you won't be getting much buying competition for a lot of us.

Brodie

[TiggerK]

Few snarky posts there I reckon. Without having tasted the wines in question there's no point in speculating how much like GC Burgundy it was or wasn't, or how good someone's palate is or isn't. The point is the BP wines do get picked as good quality Burgundy sometimes, and for the one I had recently, not a 'poor GC' either felix, a good one! Roll your eyes as you wish, guess you had to be there to know for sure eh.

But that aside, if I was buying Pinot Noir at the BP Premium or Reserve price points, I'd certainly be buying Burg instead. But BP gets willing buyers, so good on them.

[JamieBahrain]

But BP gets willing buyers, so good on them.

Interesting point. I know plenty of people whereby I'd pull the cork on a GC Burgundy and no interest. Yet Bass Phillip, or anything super-premium Aussie, they are ecstatic. Many wealthy, parochial consumers just want to drink premium Aussies.

A mate of mine flew jets for one of our wealthiest. They ran out of Grange on a trip to California ( this going back 20 years + ) - he was tasked with restocking and couldn't find any Grange for the return. Got a six pack of mixed cult- Californians. Owner was understanding but not happy. Gave the Californian wines to my friend on return to Oz- minus a bottle.

[Croquet King]

Have been offline for a while but came back and read this thread.
I've only had a few BP and always found them ok.

My preference is pinot from Geelong and I'll go and open a single vineyard Lethbridge tonight.

BP has everyone talking - I think faulty is a harsh criticism - They are different and respect for trying that.