Buying from overseas websites

[Nick Wine Guy]

Does anyone here do it?

I've found some good prices overseas but was just wondering if anyone has had any experience with buying and importing I should know about?

[Ozzie W]

On top of what you pay via the website, you will then have to pay duty, refrigerated freight, insurance, WET and finally GST. I've never done it because I've always assumed it was an uneconomical endeavour for small personal quantities.

[mjs]

A couple of times I imported a box of wine from Felton Rd. At the time they did door to door for $150 (15 bottles) in styrene lined box, with wines at CD price. Was very economical. No idea about Europe.

[Benchmark]

A couple of times I imported a box of wine from Felton Rd. At the time they did door to door for $150 (15 bottles) in styrene lined box, with wines at CD price. Was very economical. No idea about Europe.

I have done the same with Dry River.

Maybe there is a trade agreement with NZ?

[mychurch]

I’ve done it twice in the last 6 months. Both times a single case from France: Vouvray and Cour Cheverny.

Send costs were €145 a case, so about $18 a bottle and I have not had to pay any tax or duty on the wines.

The wines are delivered via the French Post office, which then goes to AuzPost here. I’m not buying expensive wine, so maybe that’s why nobody has asked me for duty. It could also be luck or the fact that they are just too busy to check all the consignments. Takes a week from door to door. I wouldn’t do it for fine Burgs, but I don’t see any I’ll effects from the wines I have tried.

I will order another case when the summer finally ends. No intention of ordering more than a single case though as it might become more visible. Next time I will order some more expensive stuff eg 2015 Provinage from Marionet which is €60/$95 in France, but $250 here a bottle. Even with the freight and the duty it would be a saving.

Got to say that I have been lucky both times - the boxes are well packed and have the trays of polystyrene, but they do take a beating. Imagine a specialist delivery house would look after them better.

Also sent a case via AusPost to Amsterdam and my mate had to pay duty at the other end.

[Ian S]

A week must mean it's transported by plane - which mostly removes that other risk of shipped across the equator: heat damage.

I suspect you got lucky, and perhaps single cases offer better odds than multiple cases. What's WET + GST these days? I recall it was ~ 40% when introduced. I'd assume you'd get hit for an admin charge as well.

I guess the other consideration is returns - with Aussie retailers generally seeming to recognise and replace TCA affected etc. bottles, but distance making that harder. Still, if the numbers stack up, why not (and especially so for wines you simply can't get in Australia)

... but don't forget to buy from Gavin as well

[Wizz]

A couple of times I imported a box of wine from Felton Rd. At the time they did door to door for $150 (15 bottles) in styrene lined box, with wines at CD price. Was very economical. No idea about Europe.

I have done the same with Dry River.

Maybe there is a trade agreement with NZ?

Not 100% sure of the reason as I haven't done this for a while, but Marlborough Wine Tours was the group that arranged these boxes of 15 and seemed to have a way through the myriad taxes coming into Australia. Did the same with Framingham once. HOWEVER - bought from Chard Farm who just send the wines general freight and they were held in customs until I paid all the taxes.

I've bought odds and sods from a retailer in the UK, and the taxes are eyewatering, although he was very helpful about the value of the wine on the import paperwork

[winetastic]

Does anyone here do it?

I've found some good prices overseas but was just wondering if anyone has had any experience with buying and importing I should know about?

In almost all cases, it ends up being cheaper (or basically the same price) to buy locally once you pay the shipping and duties. Also if anything goes wrong (corked, heat damage, etc) then you either have to take that cost on yourself or end up paying for replacement(s) to be shipped again.

In short, its basically not worth it.

Horror story: We once shipped a case of Barbaresco from Italy back home, customs in Australia sent it back to Italy within a week of arrival after we missed the notice from them advising we had to pay duty before the package was released.

So in the end we paid shipping twice and the import duties, so 30 EUR bottles became 100 EUR bottles.

They were tasty however.

[JamieBahrain]

Does anyone here do it?

I've found some good prices overseas but was just wondering if anyone has had any experience with buying and importing I should know about?

Yes. I do it multiple times per month over a number of websites. The UK websites are expert and the best with great logistics to Hong Kong. Continental websites tend to be smaller and aren't bad though logistics tend to be airfreight. Sea freight to HKG is well established with the big guys are door to door international delivery a minuscule amount considering! As HKG is tax free and buying from bonded UK stock say, wines will arrive after the process 10 to 20% cheaper than cellar door in Europe.

I prefer sea freight due costs and temperature monitoring. Air freight doesn't offer this and being in the industry there are horror stories! As well, pressurisation will draw oxy into the wine ( not affecting short term drinking but a little bit of an unknown and possibly too small to worry about long term but a factor )

So if ever visiting HKG great idea to have some wines sent here.

On importing to Australia, I'd caution against duty evasion. Customs staff drink fine wine too. They use wine searcher and know the market-have caught out some big guys and I guess its a bit of a a gamble to hope they're under-staffed and not interested in pursuing. I trekked with a couple of customs staff and some of the scamming they talked of is well known- and I guess a matter of time before its cracked down on.

[Ozzie W]

I had a quick look and I can see some NZ wineries still offer shipping to Australia on their websites. I'm not familiar with the intricacies of WET, but I understand NZ wineries are eligible for a rebate on the WET when shipping wines to Australia. There's also no tariff on NZ wines imported to Australia. There seems to be a financial advantage here that one wouldn't receive when buying wines from Europe.

[Wizz]

I had a quick look and I can see some NZ wineries still offer shipping to Australia on their websites. I'm not familiar with the intricacies of WET, but I understand NZ wineries are eligible for a rebate on the WET when shipping wines to Australia. There's also no tariff on NZ wines imported to Australia. There seems to be a financial advantage here that one wouldn't receive when buying wines from Europe.

Thats true of NZ Wineries, however the paper trail means it can take a year to get the rebate actually paid (we did this when Auburn was operating - what a nightmare). But its not true of NZ retailers. The ATO cracked down on that scam years ago. Before they did, Auckland retailers sold a LOT of Burgundy into Australia...

[WAwineguy]

What's WET + GST these days? I recall it was ~ 40% when introduced. I'd assume you'd get hit for an admin charge as well.

Import duty 5%
GST 10%
WET 29%

All compounded, and when you add in the admin charges it comes to around 52% on the market value in my experience.

[Mike Hawkins]

What's WET + GST these days? I recall it was ~ 40% when introduced. I'd assume you'd get hit for an admin charge as well.

Import duty 5%
GST 10%
WET 29%

All compounded, and when you add in the admin charges it comes to around 52% on the market value in my experience.

Taxes are paid on the cost of wine plus freight charges...

[Wizz]

What's WET + GST these days? I recall it was ~ 40% when introduced. I'd assume you'd get hit for an admin charge as well.

Import duty 5%
GST 10%
WET 29%

All compounded, and when you add in the admin charges it comes to around 52% on the market value in my experience.

Taxes are paid on the cost of wine plus freight charges...

Unless you can get the seller to invoice them separately,

[Nick Wine Guy]

OK, so for high end wine sounds like it's either worth buying it in Europe or just a retailer here. I've found a bottle of Solaia for $670 AUD here that is $350-400 AUD overseas. Sounds like it will add up with all the extra charges plus hassle of buying overseas.

[Duncan Disorderly]

I have no experience buying wine from o/s but I have had some visibility of the import process. While it may not be worth it for a single bottle, you could consider contacting a customs agent just to be aware of the ins and outs of the border clearance processes (customs, ATO, biosecurity etc). Most customs agents act as freight forwarders and can advise on freight options if the vendor doesn’t distribute to Australia.

[Wizz]

OK, so for high end wine sounds like it's either worth buying it in Europe or just a retailer here. I've found a bottle of Solaia for $670 AUD here that is $350-400 AUD overseas. Sounds like it will add up with all the extra charges plus hassle of buying overseas.

Nick in the last two weeks I've looked at three different wines in that sort of price range coming in from overseas (UK) and found the same thing - its barely worth it. Biggest difference I could create was a 10% discount, and for taking on the risk of damage, heat exposure in transit, and difficulty of returning faulty wine, it didnt seem worth it.

[Ian S]

Thanks for the detail on the charges - they certainly mount up (and must be a challenge for Gavin wih his imports).

[JamieBahrain]

OK, so for high end wine sounds like it's either worth buying it in Europe or just a retailer here. I've found a bottle of Solaia for $670 AUD here that is $350-400 AUD overseas. Sounds like it will add up with all the extra charges plus hassle of buying overseas.

May not work in your circumstances but keep in mind TRS.

With massive currency fluctuations high end imports can be bargains - idle back vintages that have appreciated overseas and now bought retail in Australia and then get the approx 25% back on Tourist Refund.

I’ve done this heaps of times going to NZ or Indonesia. Drink a few and bring the rest home ? I’d disregard Indonesia in most circumstances of course but NZ works

[mychurch]

If you are looking at high end wines from Europe, then I think Auction makes more sense than retail. A lot of retailers buy stock from Auction houses and then add in a markup. The downside of course is wether you trust your 1964 Domaine de Chevalier Blanc to survive a plane journey intact ? I wouldn’t, but a case of say ‘14, at under the UK in bond price, might be of interest.

Main reason though for importing from overseas should be availability rather than price. Melbourne may be the 3rd biggest ‘Greek’ city in the world, but try finding a bottle of Bilblia Chora Ovilos Assertyko/Semillon Blend. I can’t and if I want some, overseas import seems the only way. Same with a host of other wines.

[JamieBahrain]

What’s the risk on the jet for old wine ? Or just worried of handling issues and temperature variations ?

[Ozzie W]

Melbourne may be the 3rd biggest ‘Greek’ city in the world, but try finding a bottle of Bilblia Chora Ovilos Assertyko/Semillon Blend. I can’t and if I want some, overseas import seems the only way. Same with a host of other wines.

I'm always on the lookout for Xinomavro, Not much of that around the traps here. Not sure if it's just a supply and demand issue, or if they just haven't fully explored the export market.

On the other hand, I've purchased 40+ different Etna producers. For such an obscure wine region, no issues with accessibility.

[Mahmoud Ali]

Melbourne may be the 3rd biggest ‘Greek’ city in the world, but try finding a bottle of Bilblia Chora Ovilos Assertyko/Semillon Blend. I can’t and if I want some, overseas import seems the only way.

By the sounds of it, good luck finding this wine anywhere. I've never even heard of it. I've had a number of assyrtiko wines and have liked them all, even the less expensive Boutari but not in a semillon blend. Should I be keeping an eye out for it?

Mahmoud.

[phillisc]

Sounds like a very expensive lottery to me with high ticket prices to play...this thread tells me the main way to win with overseas wines is to actually live overseas
Cheers craig

[mychurch]

What’s the risk on the jet for old wine ? Or just worried of handling issues and temperature variations ?

Jamie. I’d be worried about the handling and the pressure.

A few years ago my wife went to Auz for Xmas and I stayed in NL. She turned up at Sydney airport with 70kg of baggage including a case full of crisps - it’s my opinion that Auz crisps are the best in the world. The crisps (maybe 30 packets) ended up being checked in excess bagage - think it cost her €400 on top of the shop price. When she arrived home I open the case only to discover that half the packets had exploded during transit. Tupperware kept them edible for a while, but I have to say that I have gone off crisps a bit ever since.

Either way, if the pressure can pop those bags, then I’d be worried by how old, saturated corks would react.

[mychurch]

Melbourne may be the 3rd biggest ‘Greek’ city in the world, but try finding a bottle of Bilblia Chora Ovilos Assertyko/Semillon Blend. I can’t and if I want some, overseas import seems the only way.

By the sounds of it, good luck finding this wine anywhere. I've never even heard of it. I've had a number of assyrtiko wines and have liked them all, even the less expensive Boutari but not in a semillon blend. Should I be keeping an eye out for it?

Mahmoud.

Mahmoud, it’s been talked about on wine pages recently - well at least in the last 3 months. Think it was one of the threads on white Bdx.

The owner also runs Gerovassiliou which, at least to me, is famous for its Viognier. Lovely wine.

I presume it’s the International style that keeps it out of the local market (or maybe it all disappears into cellars without every being sold)

[Mahmoud Ali]

Melbourne may be the 3rd biggest ‘Greek’ city in the world, but try finding a bottle of Bilblia Chora Ovilos Assertyko/Semillon Blend. I can’t and if I want some, overseas import seems the only way.

By the sounds of it, good luck finding this wine anywhere. I've never even heard of it. I've had a number of assyrtiko wines and have liked them all, even the less expensive Boutari but not in a semillon blend. Should I be keeping an eye out for it.?

Mahmoud, it’s been talked about on wine pages recently - well at least in the last 3 months. Think it was one of the threads on white Bdx.

The owner also runs Gerovassiliou which, at least to me, is famous for its Viognier. Lovely wine.

I presume it’s the International style that keeps it out of the local market (or maybe it all disappears into cellars without every being sold)

I did a search on wine pages and see that it was the "almost" in the '(Almost entirely) 1986 Bordeaux Dinner' thread. It was the non-Bordeaux white at the tasting followed by a number of 1986 reds. The assyrtiko/semillon blend apparently had a sauvignon blanc-like character and resembled a bordeaux blanc. I'm not keen on wines that resemble sauvignon blanc, even sauvingnon blancs, and those at the table thought it a mid-level white Bordeaux so not really my cup of tea. In any case my interest was in the reds as I owned a couple of the wines tasted (namely the Palmer and the Sociando-Mallet) so I quite forgot about the Greek wine.

As for assyrtiko wines I never miss an opportunity to try any well priced examples. I think I have two cellared, one is a blend called 'Folio' by Gaia (I think) and the other is by Hatzidakis - at least I hope I bought the second bottle.

Cheers .................. Mahmoud.

[Ian S]

Sounds like a very expensive lottery to me with high ticket prices to play...this thread tells me the main way to win with overseas wines is to actually live overseas
Cheers craig

The range of available wines is indeed a joy, though I suspect the days of UK citizens ordering a case from Italy, Spain or Portugal may soon be over. In that window of opportunity, some great discoveries were made, but also it was as much an opportunity to find lesser seen, often inexpensive wines, as it was to plunder the riches of the big names, which we've generally had good access to. Yes you might save 10-15% on an expensive bottle, but for me the joy was being able to get hold of wines I just never saw here, like Grignolino, Freisa, (Trentino) vino santo, Fumin etc.

[Mahmoud Ali]

What’s the risk on the jet for old wine ? Or just worried of handling issues and temperature variations ?

Jamie. I’d be worried about the handling and the pressure ....Either way, if the pressure can pop those bags, then I’d be worried by how old, saturated corks would react.

Based on my experience I shouldn't think one need worry about old corks. A couple of years ago I carried a 1970 Yalumba VP in my check-in luggage all the way across the Pacific. Recently a 1967 Seppelt's Moyston was also brought home across the Pacific. Neither bottles looked affected by the journey, outwardly anyway.

Cargo holds on most commercial aircraft is pressurized so there should be no problem for wine under a cork seal. The air pressure is lower but is the same as in the passenger cabin. Also, there isn't much air in the bottle so as to make much of an impact. Corks are porous to some degree and allows for oxygen ingress so any pressure that may have come from the bottling process would I expect equalize with the ambient air pressure, especially in older wines.

Packages of crisps may be different in that they may be puffed up through the packaging process and since they are likely designed to be easily opened the seal may not be sufficient to withstand the difference in pressure between sea level and the aircraft cabin pressure.

Cheers ................. Mahmoud.

PS: One time I did have trouble checking in an inflated rugby ball that I was lucky to collect at the Dubai Rugby 7s. Ettihad Airlines insisted that I had to deflate the ball before getting on the plane. Finding a way to deflate it was quite the story.

[Ian S]

PS: One time I did have trouble checking in an inflated rugby ball that I was lucky to collect at the Dubai Rugby 7s. Ettihad Airlines insisted that I had to deflate the ball before getting on the plane. Finding a way to deflate it was quite the story.

Luckily Tom Brady was on hand to assist