Verticals - Comparative Tastings or Compulsive Behaviour?

[Michael McNally]

A quick search of the Forum shows that vertical tastings are often enthusiastically received by wine lovers and many on here talk about purchasing certain wines to 'maintain a vertical'. However, apart from commercial offerings from producers, the occasional offline or wine club nights, it seems very rare for any of us to actually do a vertical tasting.

I know there are wines I buy year in, year out because they are favourites and I have a vertical in my cellar. I currently have about 20 wines where I have 5 or more vintages, with 6 wines with 10 or more. These are not always consecutive due to forgetfulness, changing tastes, or shortages of cash in particular years. That said, it is only in a truly terrible vintage (in some places) like 2011, that most verticals were not maintained.

I am biting the bullet and opening a couple of verticals in a couple of weeks (see separate thread seeking advice as to which to open), but do any others on the forum who collect verticals ever open three or four (or more) vintages at a time and do a proper vertical? Is buying the same wine year in and year out smart? or just obsessive?

Interested in your thoughts

Cheers

Michael

[JamieBahrain]

it seems very rare for any of us to actually do a vertical tasting.

I know. I tried to politely raise this a while ago. For wine lovers posting on forums, do we open enough great wines even? Let alone verticals.

I'm consistently presenting verticals. They are a lot of fun and very educational. Probably most relevant for those who are habitual premium wine buyers versus premium wine drinkers, verticals continually show that the greatest vintages are often pipped by lesser vintages. You see it forums so often - vintage FOMO- which I use in my favour in Piedmont certainly.

This year I'm presenting the following verticals-

Penfold's Grange 1971 onwards.

Pio Cesare Ornato Barolo Inaugural Vintage And Earlier

A decade of Rockford Basket Press

Craiglee Shiraz 1990 Onwards

Henschke Mt Edelstone 1954 - 2002



Very exciting tastings. I'll write one or two up.

[phillisc]

Are you planning 40 odd vintages of Mt Edelstone, same with Grange or cherry picking top vintages?
Tasters olfactory capacities would have to resemble Superman. I suspect vertical tastings of every vintage released are both rare and indeed a hard slog. Glassware and decanters alone is a logistical nightmare, not to mention sourcing tasting notes from the winery.

The idea of 10 years at a time is a sound proposition, I am intending to do this with a number of wines.

Cheers Craig

[Ozzie W]

I haven't really thought about it that way, as I have many producers I buy each year. So I have many verticals in my cellar. My reasoning for buying each year is because I like the producers, not to create verticals. Even with my wine groups, there's rarely an opportunity to do a vertical tasting as each person brings one or two wines to dinner, rather than one person bringing all the wines. Saying all that, I do like the idea of tasting verticals.

[JamieBahrain]

Are you planning 40 odd vintages of Mt Edelstone, same with Grange or cherry picking top vintages?
Tasters olfactory capacities would have to resemble Superman. I suspect vertical tastings of every vintage released are both rare and indeed a hard slog. Glassware and decanters alone is a logistical nightmare, not to mention sourcing tasting notes from the winery.

The idea of 10 years at a time is a sound proposition, I am intending to do this with a number of wines.

Cheers Craig

What's available. I don't think a strict chronological order suggested by OP?

On complete verticals, of course, virtually impossible to do a compete Grange vintage. That said, in the wine collecting capital of the world here in HKG, they get pretty close. A near complete vertical event may start Friday lunch, Friday dinner and then into Saturday afternoon and dinner. I have a few friends who put these events on commercially. On face value, they seem expensive. But if wine a passionate hobby far less expensive pursuing than friends who have vintage car, vintage aircraft or art type hobbies.

[Rory]

I've gone away from verticals, as it can be a brutal comparison.
Any vintage of verticals I have in the cellar can look great on any night on their own.

[crusty2]

One of the reasons verticals may not be posted is that comprehensive note taking is hard to do when presenting. Takes a lot of time and commitment to present and take notes.
In Sept 2017 I presented Rockford Basket Press Shiraz with our guest, David Kalleske, in the following format
2013, 2012, 2011
2006, 2005, 2004
1996, 1995, 1994
1986, 1985, 1984
2 bottles of each presented with my preferences in bold
Group votes for Vintage of the night:
2004 vintage – 10 votes
1996 vintage – 7 votes
1985 vintage – 4 votes

Unfortunately cannot do this again as no 1984 and 1985 remain in my cellar

[crusty2]

In October this year I presented Mount Mary
Chardonnay - 1993, 1998
Pinot - 2004 and 1994
Quintet - 2008, 2004, 2002, 2001, 1999, 1990

1994 Pinot the standout

[JamieBahrain]

and many on here talk about purchasing certain wines to 'maintain a vertical'

Quick side note. Also, especially abroad, you maintain a vertical to maintain an allocation of some very sort after wines. You see this with Burgundy and increasingly Barolo. With retail and in some cases direct with a producer ( DRC Conterno Mascarello etc )

[phillisc]

and many on here talk about purchasing certain wines to 'maintain a vertical'

Quick side note. Also, especially abroad, you maintain a vertical to maintain an allocation of some very sort after wines. You see this with Burgundy and increasingly Barolo. With retail and in some cases direct with a producer ( DRC Conterno Mascarello etc )

No different to Wendouree...although I have heard if you write to them or return the mailer with a note, that you want a break, you are kept on the list.
Cheers Craig

[Ian S]

Jamie is clearly organising vertical tastings and such events can be very popular amongst wine geeks. In that situation it makes sense to acquire such verticals, as they are likely to be drunk in that setting.

I'm unlikely to do that, so whilst I may have multiple vintages of a wine (e.g. Ch Musar) I've long since ditched the idea of collecting verticals for comparitive tasting.

[mjs]

I think that vertical tasting are an excellent way of understanding the provenance of a wine and potential vintage variations. Maralinga Wine Society has had a couple of vertical tastings this year, some Seppelts Great Western wines (shiraz) and the ubiquitous Wynns Black Label. Planning a couple more next year with the group. Doesn't have to be 40 vintages, you get the hang of it with 6-8 or more.

Always encouraged by the Majella ten year vertical of cabernet every year in October at Coonawarra Cabernet Celebrations.

[JamieBahrain]

so whilst I may have multiple vintages of a wine (e.g. Ch Musar) I've long since ditched the idea of collecting verticals for comparitive tasting.

Just on that, we did a vertical of Musar back to the 50's for reds and 60's for whites. Serge was in attendance and was very emotional about our vertical. He actually shed a tear at our hospitality. Sadly, just a few months before his passing.

If your cellar is really deep, verticals can be something special, even for the producer.

[sjw_11]

I have the makings of a few verticals, would be more except I cut back my buying of Australian wine a lot.
I guess at least 6 or 7 vintages of Marius, Grosset Gaia, Grosset rieslings, Tyrrell’s Vat I and 47, Rockford BP, Rockford Cab...

I really like the idea of doing a vertical tasting. I don’t see why you cant organise a dinner where one person brings all the wine and the other people either chip in a notional cost or simply host a subsequent dinner with their own vertical.

[Mahmoud Ali]

Verticals can indeed be fun but for my own part I have had little interest in acquiring my own verticals. Two three vintages and I'm done, ready to move on to other things. There is so much in the vinuous world to explore and discover. I would of course be willing to contribute to a vertical, where everyone brings a different vintage but that's about it.

The only vertical I have is a Chianti Riserva from Nipozzano mainly because some old vintages from the 60s and 70s were selling for a song when I first started buying. The '61 and '62 were all of $18 and the '70, '74, and '75 even less. That was when the current vintage was '81 and '82. There was a time when I thought that a vertical would be interesting but it would involve blowing out too many old wines all at one. I'm now perfectly happy to share a good old bottle with my friends one at a time.

[Wizz]

I have a few verticals going, but they are only there because they are wines I like, that do better with age. Castagna and Clonakilla Shiraz Viognier are the two biggest ones, and I suppose the JJ Prum collection counts, I think I have Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spatlese back to 2004. BUT I'm not hoarding them compulsively, the earlier vintages (pre 2005) are mostly gone - simply because they are tasty!

There are other wines I buy a lto of years but drink younger, hence no vertical.

I'll tend to accumulate them as there are some wineries I just want to support. With a sea of booze out there, its easy to support small companies with great people who deserve it.

[Ozzie W]

I really like the idea of doing a vertical tasting. I don’t see why you cant organise a dinner where one person brings all the wine and the other people either chip in a notional cost or simply host a subsequent dinner with their own vertical.

We did exactly that earlier this year for a Wynns vertical tasting: [url]http://forum.auswine.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16358[/url]

[phillisc]

Sam I will be doing same. I am fortunate to have a few mates who can buy and sell me 10 times over before breakfast, who know I have a reasonable collection.
They have the $200g cars, the beach houses, the investment properties, the first class travel...but don't have the wine or the depth of wine in the cellar.
They have suggested to me, you work out what it will cost you to do a 30 year BP or 40 Year JR/BL vertical and charge us. I would be just as happy if they brought the meat and salads and I put on the wine. But yes far far far cheaper than the thousands a third party would charge for a thimbles worth of wine.
I think the shared experience will be best and see me finally get my a into g.

Cheers Craig

[JamieBahrain]

Considering the depth of your SA cellar Craig, it would be great to see you do a vertical. Can't ever recall you mentioning doing one ? Pardon me if I missed it.

[phillisc]

Considering the depth of your SA cellar Craig, it would be great to see you do a vertical. Can't ever recall you mentioning doing one ? Pardon me if I missed it.

Thanks Jamie, has been mentioned before. I am just trying to find the space, if done at home, or a suitable venue where I could open 2-3 dozen wines. If off site then people could provide their own glasses. I certainly would like to buy 10-20 dozen decent glasses but in Aus, that's $6-12 grand.
Not so fused about food. I envisage a gathering where a tasting could be done first and then left overs, other comparable wines could be consumed over a leisurely feed.
I will have more time work wise next year to seriously consider. Yep its a boring SA cellar, yes probably more suited to horizontals of Riesling, Shiraz and Cabernet
Cheers Craig

[tuxy85]

Compulsive behaviour for me.

My reason for collecting verticals is mostly financial and reflects both my stage of life being a young dad supporting a family on 1 income with my wife only working 2 days per week and also being quite early in my wine collecting - I want have a range of reds and whites in a limited amount of storage space (12 case locker at WineArk).

My buying habits are that I generally order a case online whether it be a 6 or 12 pack which might be made up of 80% drink now quaffers and 1 or 2 bottles to cellar at WineArk. I don't have the means to buy a whole case of wines to collect nor do I have the storage space. For that reason I find that building a vertical is a good way to get multiple bottles of wine that I like or that I am interested in and to collect them over time. I don't intend on doing a vertical tasting as such. However I expect that once my verticals reach drinking age I'll be able to drink them over consecutive years.

I have started working on verticals for Henschke Mt Edelstone, Cullen DM, Mount Pleasant OP&OH, Wynns Cab BL, Deep Woods Estate Reserve Cabernet and Chardonnay, Grosset Springvale, Hardy's Riesling, Hoddles Ck 1er Chardonnay and Pinot, Montalto Estate Pinot, Tahbilk Marsanne 1927 vines, Mount Pleasant Elizabeth Semillon, Rockford Moppa Springs. These are all currently around 2012-2017 vintages so they won't be ready for 10-20 years.

[Michael McNally]

I have started working on verticals for Henschke Mt Edelstone, Cullen DM, Mount Pleasant OP&OH, Wynns Cab BL, Deep Woods Estate Reserve Cabernet and Chardonnay, Grosset Springvale, Hardy's Riesling, Hoddles Ck 1er Chardonnay and Pinot, Montalto Estate Pinot, Tahbilk Marsanne 1927 vines, Mount Pleasant Elizabeth Semillon, Rockford Moppa Springs. These are all currently around 2012-2017 vintages so they won't be ready for 10-20 years.

No offence uxy, but that must be some single salary!

Cheers

Michael

[tuxy85]

I have started working on verticals for Henschke Mt Edelstone, Cullen DM, Mount Pleasant OP&OH, Wynns Cab BL, Deep Woods Estate Reserve Cabernet and Chardonnay, Grosset Springvale, Hardy's Riesling, Hoddles Ck 1er Chardonnay and Pinot, Montalto Estate Pinot, Tahbilk Marsanne 1927 vines, Mount Pleasant Elizabeth Semillon, Rockford Moppa Springs. These are all currently around 2012-2017 vintages so they won't be ready for 10-20 years.

No offence uxy, but that must be some single salary!

Cheers

Michael

I built a lot of my initial collection when we were dual income/no kids. Since having our little man, I have added 18 bottles to my collection in 18 months and the rate of collecting seems to be slowing down. There will certainly be gaps in the verticals but I'd like to have at least 3-6 vintages of each over time.

[ticklenow1]

I really enjoy tasting verticals. I find it an interesting exercise and more often than not it shows the quality of the better vintages. It can be hard though when there are very young vintages involved. Well it is for me anyway.

I have scaled back my wine buying the last 12-18 months quite a bit and I've dropped off quite a few mailing lists. 1, due to my tastes changing and 2, due to economic circumstances and 3. due to storage limitations. So I am not keeping up as many verticals as I used to. I think emotion also comes into collecting verticals as well. I've managed to negate that and just be happy with what I have in my small overcrowded cellar. I have started now skipping poor/average vintages and spend the wine budget elsewhere. I do have a lot of brand loyalty, probably to a fault, but I'm also managing to negate that a bit as well now. Being lucky enough to visit wine regions regularly also helps. I can actually taste the wines more often before buying.

I've done a couple of Noon verticals fairly recently and it was probably them that made me realise how much my tastes are changing.

I'll be keeping my Wendouree and Rockford collection going as I'm forced to by the better half (her favourite wines), along with Standish, Hoddles Creek and Sami Odi. Sadly Marius is coming to an end so that will drop off the radar too. I've stopped buying Wild Duck Creek, Noon and Greenock Creek as they are just not my thing anymore. Penfolds stopped many years ago along with many of the other bigger names.

Cheers
Ian

[crusty2]

Then there is the Vertizontal
This one was most informative
2012 William Fevre Les Lys
2012 William Fevre Vaillons
2012 William Fevre Vaulorent
2008, 09, 11, 12 William Fevre Mont de Tonnere
2012 William Fevre Les Preusses
2012 William Fevre Les Clos
showcasing 1 vintage from the bottom to the top with 1 wine showcasing the vintage variations

[Ian S]

Interesting to ask ourselves a question:

What % of our cellared bottles get opened as a single bottle, and what % get opened at the same time as other bottles e.g. for a vertical or for dinner parties etc.

For me, the vast majority are opened on their own. Probably > 90%
Then the remainder is typically in 2s and 3s, when we have friends over, or go to see them (everyone brings something).

The last time I opened more than 3 bottles from the cellar on the same day, was in 2016.

Hence for me, verticals make no sense. For others they'll make more sense.

[Mahmoud Ali]

Hi Ian,

I'm pretty much in the same situation as you are, opening bottles on their own at home or several different bottles in the context of an extended dinner tasting.

I think I've contributed to four verticals over the years, a 1978 for a Musar tasting where everyone brought a bottle, a 1988 or 1989 La Lagune for a vertical of the said wine, again everybody bringing a bottle. At the other two tasting my bottle was a contibution of a wine of similar ilk so that we would have enough to drink. I contibuted a 1979 Croizet-Bage to a Batailley tasting (both are Pauillacs) where the highlights were the 1966 and 1978 Batailleys, and on the other occasion an 1981 St Emilion (Fonplegade?) for a Chateau L'Arrosee that featured probably one of the finest wines I've tasted, the 1961 L'Arrosee. But those were a long time ago.

[Cactus]

Its compulsive behavior for me. I have that many verticals across the lines of my producers. But I have not yet and not once done a vertical. Ridiculous, I need to change this. Might need to form a group of people who like wine. I host one, then rotate. Most of my friends are not passionate on this. My wife and I cant do more than 2 bottles.

[phillisc]

So Michael, what's it to be?
Cheers Craig

[JamieBahrain]

One issue with verticals is when tasters spit all your beautiful and hard collected wine into a bucket.

Rockford SVS, Hill of Grace and many of the other treasured favourites .

I tend not to share “personally” special wines anymore - far better experiences with family and friends!