Penfolds' new Champagnes make a sparkling debut

[Matt@5453]

[url]https://www.ausbt.com.au/penfolds-new-champa ... ource=hero[/url]

Rumours suggest Napa Valley and Bordeaux wines are next on the agenda as they expand globally.

[Scotty vino]

ok so it's all about the juice, but that label is woeful.

[phillisc]

Perhaps with the CEO flogging a heap of shares, he might be able to buy more than a couple of vineyards in Champagne.
Personally at $280 a bottle, Bolly LGA or RD would be head and shoulders above these.

Cheers craig

[Wizz]

$280. Wow. Fascinated to see the marketing blurb and the target market for this.

[Ozzie W]

Great vintage to debut with, but there's stiff competition at that price point.

Ralph Kyte-Powell has some tasting notes.

Thienot x Penfolds Chardonnay Pinot Noir Cuvee 2012
A wine of great finesse. Characters reminiscent of apple tart, creme brulee and nuttiness flow through a subtle, fine mouthful. Light but intense, lingering and fragrant. Very elegant. Released in June and available for pre-order from penfolds.com. RRP $280.

Thienot x Penfolds Grand Cru Blanc de Blancs 2012
My pick of the three, this single vineyard 100 per cent chardonnay champagne has delicate floral and citrus aromas woven through richer stone fruit and toasty notes. Rich yet fine, it offers a sustained, refined palate of lovely length and tight structure. Ultra stylish champagne. Released in 2020.

Thienot x Penfolds Grand Cru Blanc de Noir 2012
From Ay, in champagne's pinot noir heartland, this is the most reserved wine of the three. It's more fruit-driven with rich pinot qualities at its core, trimmed in classic brioche, patisserie and spice elements which add complexity. Creamy, nutty and fine, it tastes very dry and serious. In need of a little bottle age to flourish. Released in 2020.

Source: [url]https://www.goodfood.com.au/drinks/wine/penf ... 509-h1e89g[/url]

[Ozzie W]

Campbell Mattinson just reviewed the Chardonnay Pinot Noir Cuvee 2012 over at The Wine Front. A positive review and 95 points FWIW.

[Ian S]

Assuming Penfolds normal pricing, these would represent fair value at 50% of the listed price. I doubt much will end up anywhere other than China.

[Craig(NZ)]

I think a sparkling wine by Penfolds would be as far down my wish list as it was possible to go

[Mahmoud Ali]

If the Pinot Chardonnay Cuvee is $280 then the Blanc de Blanc from a single vineyard and the Blanc de Noir will likely be even more expensive.

From what I've gleaned so far, these are essentially Thienot made champagnes with Penfolds contributing the dosage from liquor aged in Yattarna barrels. A small input but an interesting one nonetheless. Of course this endeavour does suggest that in going after the luxury market Penfold's feels that Australian vineyards are not up to the task.

Mahmoud.

[felixp21]

Assuming Penfolds normal pricing, these would represent fair value at 50% of the listed price. I doubt much will end up anywhere other than China.

what makes you think it will end up in China?

[Ian S]

Assuming Penfolds normal pricing, these would represent fair value at 50% of the listed price. I doubt much will end up anywhere other than China.

what makes you think it will end up in China?

That is their big focus and their vision for increasing price and making the wines appear scarce everywhere else. I doubt there will be any genuine market for such wines in Europe.

[felixp21]

Having lived in China for many years, and still do, there are two things I have learned about the Chinese, and these explain why China has gone from an incredibly poor third world country starving to death to the richest economy in the World, with the largest number of billionaires of any country.
Firstly, Chinese people are incredibly smart, not only intelligent, but incredibly adept at business.
Secondly, Chinese people never, and I mean NEVER, spend their money on something that they perceive as having an inflated price. You bet, they will spend millions on established labels, LVMH, Ferrari, Rolex,DRC, Lafite, you name it. But hell will freeze over before they part with their hard-earned for a scam. I should mention I am talking of mainland Chinese, not Honkies.

I am getting a little bored of the absurd notion that any old winemaker can stick some juice in a bottle, attach a fancy label, and then ship it to China where those fools will snap it up for hundreds of dollars a bottle. IT DOES NOT HAPPEN. Go talk to the Bordelaise who got their asses fried in the 2011 vintage, when they assumed the Chinese would just take the stuff because of the labels. They got burned to the tune of around a billion US dollars (hinted in at the movie Red Obsession, which was produced just at the time this was going on)

Penfolds, and their bloody scamming, are totally full of it. They conned a few new kids on the block wine investors up here a couple of years ago to bring in more Grange and 707, as the absurd prices in Australia and elsewhere was making it hard to sell. I would guesstimate at least 50% of that stock still sits in the shelves in supermarkets all over China. You have only got to come here to see it yourself... my local has rows and rows of the stuff, the same bottles having sat there now for more than five years.

There is not one chance in hell people are going to spend $400-500 on a bottle of Penfolds Champagne from a middle-of-the-road producer, that is what it would cost in China, and that is around Cristal price. This is another grubby marketing trick by Penfolds and their chief grub, who claims they could sell it for even more, simply because growers like Selosse can.

Anyway, end of my "I'm sick of people thinking Chinese are suckers" rant.

[n4sir]

Wow, not shy on the pricing are they? As many have already said, not that unexpected though...

On the plus side, my old magnum of Penfolds Minchinbury must now be worth a small fortune, right?

[img]https://i.imgur.com/4GA8RtR.jpg[/img]

[DJ]

Does anyone have a shark jumping gif?

[Mike Hawkins]

I’ve had various Thienots in many occasions and save for one or two Garances, they’re average. So if Penfolds are merely plundering sites that Thienot has access to, I’m not expecting much. That said, I’m not sure of the whole relationship with Thienot... I’ve only read the references in the tasting notes above.

On a positive note, despite Gago’s I’ll informed comments, the wines are from the highly heralded, but low volume 2012 vintage.

[cuttlefish]

In all likelihood, this gives TWE something to serve on arrival at all their product launches of generally overpriced pennies reds. Thats potentially more profitable for them than serving Bin 51 Riesling.

[Ian S]

Hi Felix
Thanks for the insight, and to be fair I'm making no assumptions about it selling, merely that Penfolds will attempt to do so.

Regards
Ian

[JamieBahrain]

Anyway, end of my "I'm sick of people thinking Chinese are suckers" rant.

China is quite simply a market. "Suckers" doesn't come into it in any stereotyped and impolite manner.

I deal with high and middle end folk. Certainly the middle class are very supportive of Penfolds at the lower end. They are trusting of the product and happy to celebrate their connection to Australia.

High end sales of wine into China always has me baffled. You don't see it as much as Hong Kong. And high end wine seems to collect dust. Then again, who buys the high end stuff in Chinese malls? Never seen a watch bought or a pair of Gucci shoes.

[felixp21]

not sure about that, Jamie. Went shopping over CNY with a husband and wife (friends of my wife) in the latest Mall to have opened in Futian SZ, and they spent just over US $110k in about four hours, mainly on Armani, Gucci and the like. I've seen that scenario many times up here. His family is one of the richest in Guandong, limitless cash, but I know he would never spend $400 on a Penfold's champagne (and they are both big champagne drinkers)

out of interest, people may not know this, but Chadstone in Melbourne has a "VIP" section hidden away from the public. To be a "VIP" member, you need to spend more than $100k a year there. Guess what, it is almost 100% Asians, of which 90% are Chinese.... and most of these "members" spend far in excess of 100k, and a large proportion are Uni students using daddy's credit card.

Chinese, and I am talking about mainlanders, spend absurd amounts in the malls, that is why there are so many of them up here!!!!!

[JamieBahrain]

I lived in Harbour City Mall, Kowloon in a serviced apartment and many friends live in 4 Seasons in the IFC Hong Kong mall. The shopping is busy and lively in high end stores.

Now I spend 10 nights a month in Chinese primary and secondary cities staying in malls that are ostensibly dormant!

I'm not denying Chinese wealth. The market is just not what it seems. I've a mate who sends a convoy across the border of grey market Penfolds products.

I don't respect mainland wealth btw. Anymore than I do looted Nazi wealth. I've met too many Chinese people who had their land and property seized by the ruling communists. They are thugs! Go America!

[felixp21]

haha, the USA won't win this one, China now much too powerful. It is their last-gasp effort to hang on to their number one title, but they are doomed to hand it over to the big Dragon. I guess all will be revealed in a couple of days.
If Cathay is like Qanti, you'd be staying in pretty second rate places, like my poor ol bro!!!! Glory days over for you pilots hehe

Not too many dormant malls in SZ, more and more like HK every day. Changsha, Chengdu, Beijing, on the other hand.......

Most of the uber-rich, down South at least, made it from IT and manufacturing. Many are really nice and very generous, which certainly does not fit the usual Chinese stereotype!!!!!!

[JamieBahrain]

Well I'm not sure about that.

Hopefully neither start shooting match. Lot's off excitement on the distress frequencies this week with sovereignty claims and boundaries and military aircraft violations ( one US aircraft at 60,000ft ) . It's 40 years since the PLA was defeated by secondary Vietnamese forces in their invasion of Vietnam. Too many hawks in China these days wanting to prove their might from so much loss of face over the last few hundred years.

Be nice if everyone could have a glass of cool Penfolds champagne and relax .

I'm doing a Grange tasting next year in Hong Kong. 1971 onwards. Might start with a bottle or two of the champers?

[felixp21]

yes, much "mine is bigger than yours" chatter between China and the US at the moment.
couldn't imagine in a million years it would come to an armed conflict, the Chinese are too smart for that. No point the Chinese bombing a country they already !5% own
and the problem for the US is half their mega-companies are now based in China.

There has always been a catastrophic war when a new Superpower emerges, The Thucydides Trap, but I'd be very confident that common sense and the information super-highway will prevent that happening again. Even the CIA now acknowledges the China economy is number one, so the latest trade spat is the simply the last hurrah of a US-dominated globe. It's going to be an extremely interesting next decade!!!!!

[phillisc]

Ian, the old Minchinbury takes me back.
Managing the bottle shop/drive thru' of a very busy inner southern suburban hotel, it was either Pennies, Orlando Carrington, or Seaview Brut. All under a fiver and sold like there was no tomorrow. Apart from the Seaview ( only know because I worked there) the rest was tank fermented muck...but the ladies loved it, as did the blokes, 30 minutes later, I suspect.

cheers craig

[JamieBahrain]

There has always been a catastrophic war when a new Superpower emerges, The Thucydides Trap, but I'd be very confident that common sense and the information super-highway will prevent that happening again. Even the CIA now acknowledges the China economy is number one, so the latest trade spat is the simply the last hurrah of a US-dominated globe. It's going to be an extremely interesting next decade!!!!!

Not sure of the super-highway is much use in China with censorship? My wechat has been censored in China- bizarre and I'll leave the details at that. Censorship and the rapidly emerging unknowns of military AI when coupled with trial cyber attacks; the new warfare is here and as prone to mistakes as much as a few near cataclysmic error chains in the Cold War. The pimple faced kids blasting around weapons hot in northern Pacific containable in error I'm sure- but there's no comfort hearing militaries screaming at each other every day on civilian distress frequencies.

A brand like Penfolds is overall still a big positive in China for Australia in my view. Not always sure what they are doing? But the wines have a massive grey market in Hong Kong and China- probably due the local rip off importers!

[n4sir]

Ian, the old Minchinbury takes me back.
Managing the bottle shop/drive thru' of a very busy inner southern suburban hotel, it was either Pennies, Orlando Carrington, or Seaview Brut. All under a fiver and sold like there was no tomorrow. Apart from the Seaview ( only know because I worked there) the rest was tank fermented muck...but the ladies loved it, as did the blokes, 30 minutes later, I suspect.

cheers craig

Got a bottle of the old Seaview too, wish it was a magnum though... must crack it open at the next Halloween "Bring Your Dead" night.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/gZ4E8fa.jpg[/img]

[n4sir]

Does anyone have a shark jumping gif?

[img]https://i.imgur.com/MuNUkEp.gif[/img]

[dave vino]

Ian, the old Minchinbury takes me back.
Managing the bottle shop/drive thru' of a very busy inner southern suburban hotel, it was either Pennies, Orlando Carrington, or Seaview Brut. All under a fiver and sold like there was no tomorrow. Apart from the Seaview ( only know because I worked there) the rest was tank fermented muck...but the ladies loved it, as did the blokes, 30 minutes later, I suspect.

cheers craig

You can still see the old driveway entrance on the Great Western Hwy in Western Sydney and the winery buildings (converted to a cafe)

Minchinbury.jpg

[phillisc]

Ian, IIRC there was a brut, brut de brut and a third offering of Seaview...another white or perhaps a SS.
I worked at the winery in the 80s when Norm Walker was in charge...staff rates on the Edmund Mazure...the Seaview vintage offering were very very good, as were the daily lunch time and knock off drinks

Those were the days
Cheers Craig

[Polymer]

yes, much "mine is bigger than yours" chatter between China and the US at the moment.
couldn't imagine in a million years it would come to an armed conflict, the Chinese are too smart for that. No point the Chinese bombing a country they already !5% own
and the problem for the US is half their mega-companies are now based in China.

There has always been a catastrophic war when a new Superpower emerges, The Thucydides Trap, but I'd be very confident that common sense and the information super-highway will prevent that happening again. Even the CIA now acknowledges the China economy is number one, so the latest trade spat is the simply the last hurrah of a US-dominated globe. It's going to be an extremely interesting next decade!!!!!

The US doesn't have any mega companies based in China..they have cheap manufacturing via partners...

China wouldn't bomb the US because they can't...
The trade spat has nothing to do with the US trying to stay #1...it has to do with one ways dealings with China...Not to mention they were trying to be the unethical rats they are when it comes to business...(not that I consider the US to be that much better). I'm sure China views it as this is the case...but the reality is, China gets to where they are because of unethical business practices, stealing secrets, breaking sanctions, etc...That's the norm. The Chinese mentality is not that they're doing anything wrong but you're stupid for having let them get away with it.

But the fact is, the Chinese can't create...they can copy...Maybe BC they were able to create..but right now they steal/copy... and before you think they're innovating in technology because of the applications and wechat and other types of things...No..they copied that..the difference is the use of data and the adoption rate which allows some of these things to exist in China (whereas regulations and other things make some things difficult in other countries). The technology and basis for all their "innovation" is a copy of someone elses..whether they adapted something else someone else created or flat out stole it...They don't create...they copy...