What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?

[Polymer]

Holy Grail?

2007 DRC RSV
1996 DRC La Tache
2010 Rousseau CdB
2010 Rousseau CdlR
2005 Dujac Clos St Denis
2007 Faiveley Musigny < Maybe more because it was a surprise

There are still some missing from this list...Some greats Echs from different providers...Lots of really great wines that might've normally been on this list but weren't because they were overshadowed by the wine on this list...

Not sure what you're trying to get at though...I don't think this list is telling you much...

I'm sure my assessment of NZ vs AU is confusing for many...because Aussies think NZ Pinots are fruit bombs...but texture wise, they're generally more pinot like than AU Pinot...with the exception of Geelong and Gippsland...I think their acid profile is better and lightness on the palate is better...Eg. Marlborough Pinot can be almost sweet..because it is very sweet fruited...but texture wise, it feels like pinot..it tastes like pinot...more so than the ocean of Aussie Pinot which just doesn't have the right texture to it or flavor...where Aussie Pinot starts tasting like Cherry Cola (which is what a lot in CA taste like).

Of course this is just a generalization...

[Mike Hawkins]

Oooh, I've got another one, and this one is definitely going to be unpopular.

With the exception of aged vintage Champagne, England makes the best sparkling wine in the world.

*Tin Hat On*

Disagree... yet to have one (and I’ve had many of them) that would get within cooee of say Arras

[dingozegan]

With the exception of aged vintage Champagne, England makes the best sparkling wine in the world.

Disagree... yet to have one (and I’ve had many of them) that would get within cooee of say Arras

Interested to know which English sparkling (which were among the "best" for you?) and which non-English sparkling (apart from Arras) you're considering in this.

[Ozzie W]

Oooh, I've got another one, and this one is definitely going to be unpopular.

With the exception of aged vintage Champagne, England makes the best sparkling wine in the world.

*Tin Hat On*

Disagree... yet to have one (and I’ve had many of them) that would get within cooee of say Arras

I agree with Mike. I've only had an English sparkling once. It was 2013 Hattingley Valley Classic Cuvee which I tasted in October 2017. It was good, but not as good as most Champagne in the same price bracket. Interestingly, it had 2% Pinot Gris in the mix.

[dingozegan]

Ozzie, with all due respect, I don't think that a data point of one is sufficient to make such a generalised statement. That's also why I'm interested in which sparklers Mike is basing his opinion on.

[asajoseph]

The quality of English sparkling is improving rapidly - many of the top producers are working toward producing NV House Styles (the Hattingley Valley Classic Cuvee is now NV), but most still don't have the stocks to do this & are selling vintage wines.

Supply here is extremely limited as best I can tell - Vintage Cellars carry one, but the volume just isn't really there to export too much.

My personal favourites are Nyetimber (who also now do a NV 'house' blend, as well as a prestige vintage 1086 bottling, that I haven't tried), Camel Valley (based in Cornwall, so quite a different terroir to a lot of the other producers, but they still make some lovely wines), and Ridgeview (not to be confused with the Hunter producer of the same name!).

[Ozzie W]

Ozzie, with all due respect, I don't think that a data point of one is sufficient to make such a generalised statement. That's also why I'm interested in which sparklers Mike is basing his opinion on.

I agree a sample size of 1 isn't much to go on. But I have read a lot of reviews of English sparkling, so when I made that statement that was taken into consideration too. I'm happy to try some more and have my opinion swayed. Any particular ones you think I should try?

[Mike Hawkins]

With the exception of aged vintage Champagne, England makes the best sparkling wine in the world.

Disagree... yet to have one (and I’ve had many of them) that would get within cooee of say Arras

Interested to know which English sparkling (which were among the "best" for you?) and which non-English sparkling (apart from Arras) you're considering in this.

I thought the Chapel Down one (their top wine) was good, but thought Nyetimbers various releases were pedestrian despite the hype. Wiston was ok, as were Cottonwood and Hattingley. The rest were largely forgettable , and as expected, the supermarket wines were rubbish.

[Mike Hawkins]

Disagree... yet to have one (and I’ve had many of them) that would get within cooee of say Arras

Interested to know which English sparkling (which were among the "best" for you?) and which non-English sparkling (apart from Arras) you're considering in this.

I thought the Chapel Down one (their top wine) was good, but thought Nyetimbers various releases were pedestrian despite the hype. Wiston was ok, as were Cottonwood and Hattingley. The rest were largely forgettable , and as expected, the supermarket wines were rubbish.

I would take Lubiana (some releases), Clover Hill and Jansz over nearly all the pommie sparklers, (price is much better too) and based on one tasting, Bellebonne shows promise. But the various wines from Arras would be my Aussie go tos.

The advantage Aust has is vine maturity. The English vines are often very young, and I expect they will get better

[dingozegan]

I'm happy to try some more and have my opinion swayed. Any particular ones you think I should try?

Cheers guys. Mike, perhaps our differences come down more to taste (or luck / exposure to individual vinatges/cuvees) then. I don't rate Lubiana (but perhaps I've missed the releases that perform better) or Jansz. Clover Hill and Arras can be good, but they don't consistently outperform English sparklers IMO (and to be honest, I don't think much of their NV's).

I've been drinking Nyetimber for 15 years now, and I still consider it a competitor for Champagne (not the likes of Krug, Tattinger CdC, Dom et al, but certainly NV and entry to mid range vintage) - it is certainly better with some age, but most quality classic-style sparklers are so perhaps that's not saying much. I have found it to be consistently competetive when tasted blind among well honed Champagne lovers (who usually mistake it for Champagne). Newer on the scene, I do think the likes of Coates & Seely (especially the rose), Hambledon, Hattingley, Gusbourne and Wiston are good. Ridgeview and Chapel Down (both well established) are OK - I don't feel they're up to the same standard as a generalisation (for NV), but I haven't had to top releases in recent times.

Another factor might be the style of English sparklers, which I'd say as a generalisation tend to be more delicate, elegant and subtle - I like both rich and subtle sparkling, but I realise the subtle stuff isn't for everyone.

On the value for money thing, it is a slightly unfair comparison in Australia, because for imported wine, Champagne is quite well-priced in Australia, while English sparkling is priced so painfully (like so many imports, especially those of low volume)!

[michel]

Holy Grail?

2007 DRC RSV
1996 DRC La Tache
2010 Rousseau CdB
2010 Rousseau CdlR
2005 Dujac Clos St Denis
2007 Faiveley Musigny < Maybe more because it was a surprise

There are still some missing from this list...Some greats Echs from different providers...Lots of really great wines that might've normally been on this list but weren't because they were overshadowed by the wine on this list...

Not sure what you're trying to get at though...I don't think this list is telling you much...

I'm sure my assessment of NZ vs AU is confusing for many...because Aussies think NZ Pinots are fruit bombs...but texture wise, they're generally more pinot like than AU Pinot...with the exception of Geelong and Gippsland...I think their acid profile is better and lightness on the palate is better...Eg. Marlborough Pinot can be almost sweet..because it is very sweet fruited...but texture wise, it feels like pinot..it tastes like pinot...more so than the ocean of Aussie Pinot which just doesn't have the right texture to it or flavor...where Aussie Pinot starts tasting like Cherry Cola (which is what a lot in CA taste like).

Of course this is just a generalization...

Hmmmm very young Burgundy
Have you tried any older Burgundy of great provenance as a gauge?
Just wondering....
they deserve time.

[sjw_11]

Oooh, I've got another one, and this one is definitely going to be unpopular.

With the exception of aged vintage Champagne, England makes the best sparkling wine in the world.

*Tin Hat On*

Disagree... yet to have one (and I’ve had many of them) that would get within cooee of say Arras

Agree with the disagree ...

I had quite a few English sparklers while living in London. I would agree however that they are good and probably under-rated globally but they are also priced mostly.

I would also take Arras over any UK bubbles I have tried.

[Wizz]

Rockford Sparkling Black ages very well.

[Mahmoud Ali]

I think we can all agree that Champagne is the gold standard when it comes to vintage and non-vintage sparklings. With regard to the others there are some that achieve Champagne levels of quality and could fool people if served blind.

I have neither seen nor had an English sparkling but one of the earliest to make headlines was Nyetimber and it was favourably compared to champagne. Given that start it is not unreasonable to assume that there may be others who might achieve similar standards.

My experience with other sparkling gives me confidence in recommending Roederer Estate in California, Blue Mountain (vintage) in British Columbia, and Benjamin Bridge (vintage and vintage rose) in Nova Scotia, also in Canada. As for Australia there is no doubting the quality of the Arras. From New Zealand the No.1 really impressed me. This non-vintage made what seems to be a solitary appearance before disappearing from the shelves.

Cheers ................. Mahmoud.

[michel]

Rockford Sparkling Black ages very well.

It definitely ages and grows feral stuff on the cork

[Wizz]

Rockford Sparkling Black ages very well.

It definitely ages and grows feral stuff on the cork

The corks don't go well with age - Iv'e split a couple of them. Nervous moments waiting to see if the bottom half gets expelled...

But the 07 we had last week was far tidier than the 14 we had last night

[michel]

Rockford Sparkling Black ages very well.

It definitely ages and grows feral stuff on the cork

The corks don't go well with age - Iv'e split a couple of them. Nervous moments waiting to see if the bottom half gets expelled...

But the 07 we had last week was far tidier than the 14 we had last night

That’s encouraging Mr Wizz
What food suits sparkling red?

[Wizz]

It definitely ages and grows feral stuff on the cork

The corks don't go well with age - Iv'e split a couple of them. Nervous moments waiting to see if the bottom half gets expelled...

But the 07 we had last week was far tidier than the 14 we had last night

That’s encouraging Mr Wizz
What food suits sparkling red?

Store bought Pizza. Sweet and fruity contrasts all the salt. Particularly good for the rich Rockford style.
Castagna on the other hand - serve where you might serve Syrah eg roast meats as it isnt as sweet and the tannins can still do a job
Joseph - as good as this wine is, its perhaps the hardest with the aged material used for liquering. I've had it work with Roast Lamb. Reckon it could be good with antipasti too.

[Polymer]

Hmmmm very young Burgundy
Have you tried any older Burgundy of great provenance as a gauge?
Just wondering....
they deserve time.

I've had old and very old Burgundy....and some have been fantastic...but not holy grail...where I say F me..and what keeps up the chase. I haven't even touched on White Burgundy...which is completely different than my opinion of Red...

Not sure how this relates to my opinion on AU/NZ wine though....

[WAwineguy]

For all the Coonawarra fanatics out there, Margaret River is so much better at producing Cabernet.

How could that possibly be an unpopular opinion? It's simply true

[ticklenow1]

Rockford Sparkling Black ages very well.

I agree, older bottles (with a decent cork) are much better than younger bottles. But the corks are just too unreliable to keep them for too long.

I’ve had the arguement with Robert O’Callaghan about the corks they use. I’d hate to think how good Black Shiraz could be if it was sealed under crown seal. The impression I got is that Black Shiraz isn’t made to age, but it actually does in my experience.

Seppelt have sealed their Show Reserve Sparkling Shiraz that way for ages. Gerry (Gpk) bought a couple of mid 80’s Sepplets Sparkling Burgandies to a Brisbane offline a few years back under crown seal and they were amazing. Actually, amazing probably isn’t a strong enough word. I have sought out the Seppelt Show Reserve ever since. 20+ years and they are stunning.

Cheers
Ian

[WAwineguy]

stemless glasses? Like em.

I'd like to kill whoever decided to start drinking wine out of stemless glasses!!!

(Note for politically correct people: I don't really want to actually kill them, but you know what I mean).

[WAwineguy]

Most commercial bars and restaurants serve their red wines much too hot, (and sometimes their whites too cold). Even in winter with heating the wine comes to the table around 22-24 degrees. And the same is true for the majority of homes with their passive cellars. The difference between a wine served at 17-18 degrees and 24 is immense and potentially ruining the brand in the drinkers perception. I was in Ireland in October and every red was served too hot. Mostly I asked for a wine bucket, much to the amusement of the waiters.

Agree, HATE that!

[winetastic]

What unpopular (wine) opinions do you have?
Stemless glasses are great for quaffers and parties

[mjs]

stemless glasses? Like em.

I'd like to kill whoever decided to start drinking wine out of stemless glasses!!!

(Note for politically correct people: I don't really want to actually kill them, but you know what I mean).

Stemless glasses do not deserve wine to be poured into them

[phillisc]

+1 definitely only GnT or H2O
Cheers Craig

[DaveS]

stemless glasses? Like em.

I'd like to kill whoever decided to start drinking wine out of stemless glasses!!!

(Note for politically correct people: I don't really want to actually kill them, but you know what I mean).

Stemless glasses do not deserve wine to be poured into them

Stemless are good when you’re with a crowd that want to drink beer and you want to have a wine. You can sit with it in your hand and not look like a wa#ker.

[Mahmoud Ali]

Stemless glasses are much more stable at parties and big events and are easy to take along. I took some inexpensve stemless flutes for a friends "cheap champagne" party where others were drinking from ordinary glasses and plastic cups.

Time and place ladies and gentlemen, time and place.

Mahmoud.

[Polymer]

I agree with Mahmoud.

Stemless glasses have their place...Not my preferred way to drink wine but good stemless are easier to transport and do the job...

[Dragzworthy]

For all the Coonawarra fanatics out there, Margaret River is so much better at producing Cabernet.

How could that possibly be an unpopular opinion? It's simply true

I think Margaret River produces the best Chardonnay and Cabernet in Australia...however the latter can taste similar among producers.
I found the Chardonnay particularly delightful on my trip there in November.