The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

[Ozzie W]

Intriguing event. Looking very forward to your report, Jamie.

[Redav]

I expect there's likely many answers to this question earlier in this thread but I'm not going to knowingly find it

I'm trying to broaden my horizon's a little so if someone wanted to try a reasonable bottle of this variety to try, what suggestions might people have? I'm not talking something that's top drawer or aged but I'm not talking the cheap stuff from the local with a crazy markup either. Is it possible to find something that's worth trying that's around there 50 mark give or take a little?

Is it similar to a variety commonly grown and produced here?

Thanks in advance,
The Naive Wino

[JamieBahrain]

Nebbiolo is grown in Australia.

$50 is ambitious though may happen at auction for Barolo and Barbaresco. However, I suggest you quickly hunt down Giacomo Borgogno No Name Nebbiolo 2013 which is a protest wine that is technically a Barolo! For $50 there is no better introduction with the cracking 2013 vintage.

[Ozzie W]

Jamie's suggestion is great. A wine that punches way above its weight. Unfortunately, not easy to find in Australia, let alone at $50.

You might like to try Benevelli Piero Langhe Nebbiolo. The 2017 vintage is only $30 and readily available, including from our gracious host. It's a good introduction into what Nebbiolo from Piedmont is all about. If you can find a 2016 vintage somewhere, even better.

[JamieBahrain]

It will take a bit of time to write up the tasting so I'll knock-off dinner wines, which was a very neat traditionalist horizontal, from a vintage that's slowly becoming better understood.

Claudio Mariotto Timorassso Pitasso 2016- From Vho on the slopes of Tortona ( famous for its wedding cake shaped cheese ) which is Piedmont but an hour from Alba. I prefer more time on classy timorasso such as this where it rounds and builds fleshy yellow fruits on the palate. Here we have green herbs, yellow plum with iron notes on a fruit-sweet rounded palate with bitter almond acidity. 90pts+



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All Barolo slow-oxed:


Bartolo Mascarello Barolo 2006- Always a beautiful perfume, a blend of wondrous aromatics capturing the delightful, elegant scents of the tortonian soils of the Central Valley. It's not simply tar and roses, its melted chocolate and cocoa, the florals are wild and youthful. Seamless entry, the wine carries the plump front and mid palate fruit toward its long exit of powdery tannins which gently bite in the aftertaste due the high acidity of the vintage. 95pts+

Giacomo Conterno Barolo Cascina Francia 2006- Almost forceful in its presence despite being years from its best. Showing darker violet florals, concentrated berry and tar- needing a decade to unpeel. The fruit's starting to rise on the muscular palate, again darker violet notes with emerging liciorce sweetness. Long carry with sour cherry persistence and ripe tannin. 94pts+

Cappellano Barolo Piè Rupestris Otin Fiorin (Gabutti) 2006- Exquisite! Florals explode potpourri like. There's Alpine herbs, dried fruits and cherry-plum. Long and elegant Barolo- there's a spicy persistence of flavour not unlike the beguiling aromatics. Ready or hold. 97pts

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[Redav]

Nebbiolo is grown in Australia.

Yes, I'd read here that it is, just not widespread. I was just wondering whether there was a grape commonly available here that it's not too dissimilar to be it Pinot, Cab, Zin, Sang, Temp etc. But I guess it's probably nothing like any of those or others?

$50 is ambitious though may happen at auction for Barolo and Barbaresco. However, I suggest you quickly hunt down Giacomo Borgogno No Name Nebbiolo 2013 which is a protest wine that is technically a Barolo! For $50 there is no better introduction with the cracking 2013 vintage.

Jamie's suggestion is great. A wine that punches way above its weight. Unfortunately, not easy to find in Australia, let alone at $50.

I had figured that price might have been a tough ask but I need to start somewhere. There's a couple of wine stores around work that I stick my head in occasionally so I'll see how I go. I saw that wine listed just before these posts and it's an easy name to recall

You might like to try Benevelli Piero Langhe Nebbiolo. The 2017 vintage is only $30 and readily available, including from our gracious host. It's a good introduction into what Nebbiolo from Piedmont is all about. If you can find a 2016 vintage somewhere, even better.

Okay, cool. Something to start with . Thanks

[Ozzie W]

Nebbiolo is grown in Australia.

Yes, I'd read here that it is, just not widespread. I was just wondering whether there was a grape commonly available here that it's not too dissimilar to be it Pinot, Cab, Zin, Sang, Temp etc. But I guess it's probably nothing like any of those or others?

Aussie Nebbiolo is a different expression of its Italian counterpart and not up to the same standard yet (will it ever be?). Aussie Neb tend to be quite expensive (compared with other varietals), to the point where the Italian stuff is often cheaper. So might as well buy the real thing.

Nebbiolo has some similarities with Pinot Noir. They're both light in colour and body, but big on tannins (not all the time for Pinot), aromatics and complex flavours. If you like Noir Noir, then you'll probably like Nebbiolo too.

[JamieBahrain]

Great to get a well behaved cork on the 2006 Cappellano! Plenty of taint and variation with this wine.

My cellar is heavily invested into Cappellano- including Chinato and magnum formats. No use singing to the moon Augusto if your cork supplier a mug

[winetastic]

I expect there's likely many answers to this question earlier in this thread but I'm not going to knowingly find it

I'm trying to broaden my horizon's a little so if someone wanted to try a reasonable bottle of this variety to try, what suggestions might people have? I'm not talking something that's top drawer or aged but I'm not talking the cheap stuff from the local with a crazy markup either. Is it possible to find something that's worth trying that's around there 50 mark give or take a little?

Is it similar to a variety commonly grown and produced here?

Thanks in advance,
The Naive Wino

If you want to try a local Nebbiolo I can suggest having a look at Domenica and Luke Lambert, both are close enough to $50.

For a good introductory wine from Italy, I would suggest the Langhe Nebbiolo from any of these producers:
Benevelli
Cigliuti
Giovanni Rosso

2016 was a great vintage for all of them and is still floating around at retail.

[Ozzie W]

If you want to try a local Nebbiolo I can suggest having a look at Domenica and Luke Lambert, both are close enough to $50.

For a good introductory wine from Italy, I would suggest the Langhe Nebbiolo from any of these producers:
Benevelli
Cigliuti
Giovanni Rosso

2016 was a great vintage for all of them and is still floating around at retail.

+1

I think I've said it a few times before on this forum, but I have an issue with the cost of Aussie Neb.
Looking at the above examples, a quick Google shows: $50 for the Domenica; $57 for Luke Lambert; $30 for the Benevelli; $50 for the Cigliuti; $40 for the Giovanni Rosso.

I can have the real thing for same or less, so why buy Aussie Neb? Perhaps they need to reassess their pricing? I have bought Aussie Neb before and still have some in my cellar, but after trying I'm hard pressed to buy again at the asking price.

[Ian S]

I don't expect Aussie nebbiolo to be a perfect facsimile of Barolo/Barbaresco, in the same way I don't expect that of Donnas, Gattinara or Valtellina. As long as it's interesting I'm willing to try it. As long as the winemaker has a commitment to learn about the grape and how best to make the wine that reflects where they are, then I'm certainly willing to taste their efforts. If they want to make it just like their Cab Sauv and Shiraz wines, then it's likely to be a waste of time and money.

[Ozzie W]

I don't expect Aussie nebbiolo to be a perfect facsimile of Barolo/Barbaresco, in the same way I don't expect that of Donnas, Gattinara or Valtellina. As long as it's interesting I'm willing to try it. As long as the winemaker has a commitment to learn about the grape and how best to make the wine that reflects where they are, then I'm certainly willing to taste their efforts. If they want to make it just like their Cab Sauv and Shiraz wines, then it's likely to be a waste of time and money.

Agreed. I think Domenica and Luke Lambert have both succeeded here.

[Cactus]

Agree that Domenica and Luke Lambert have done a good job here

[Ozzie W]

Interesting article about Luke Lambert in the New York Times.
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/07/dining/dr ... etown.html[/url]

[michel]

Interesting article about Luke Lambert in the New York Times.
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/07/dining/dr ... etown.html[/url]

Excellent article
Thanks

[Matt@5453]

2014 La Spinetta (Rivetti) Langhe Nebbiolo

The colour was much darker than I expected but still medium bodied.
The nose was more inviting than the palate, with orange, tar, florals and subtle oak. The palate again delivered oranges, tar and florals.
The tannins were quite pronounced giving it a dry / tannic finish, but overall I thought it was a good wine and went very well with home made pizza.

[Mark Carrington]

Interesting article about Luke Lambert in the New York Times.
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/07/dining/dr ... etown.html[/url]

Excellent article
Thanks

Having visited Luke at the winery 12+ months, I would say this article is a reflection of events, though slightly overwritten in places. And I learnt a couple of news things: the name of new project & the full name of Smudge.
All his wines are very good to outstanding, of course. And with perseverance they can be tracked down in the UK.

[JamieBahrain]

HKWS Barolo - Decant or Slow Ox - Tasting Report

5th March 2019, Organizer Alan Kwok

The main aim of this tasting/dinner was to investigate the influence of aeration (time, method) on Barolo. 3 bottles of each of the 6 Barolos below were served in 3 different ways.

First Bottle: 4 hours decanting,

Second bottle: pour between low neck and high shoulder, then slow-ox in bottle for 4 days (96 hours)
Third bottle: pour between low neck and high shoulder, then slow-ox in bottle for 4 hours (classic Audouze method).
The first and second bottles of the six wines (12 bottles together) were served as the evening’s blind tasting wine in the tasting section, and the third bottles (6 bottles) were served with the second course in the dinner section.

1971 Francesco Rinaldi Barolo

1982 Ceretto Bricco Rocche Brunate

1990 Domenico Clerico Barolo Pajana

2004 Aldo Conterno Barolo Romirasco

2010 Cavallotto Barolo Bricco Boschis

2014 Brovia Barolo Unio

The Slow-Ox method, or the Audouze method, was first popularized on the forum of erobertparker.com by Francois Audouze, one of the best know wine collectors and advocates of older wine in France.

It is a very simple method:

You open a wine 4 to 5 hours before drinking

You let it stand

You do not touch it anymore

When it is time, you pour it in the glasses

Audouze mainly uses this method for opening old French wines, but when winelovers around the world uses his method on Barolo wines, the reported opening time increased from hours to days.

Personally, I have had many young Barolo which needs over 5 days of slow-ox to express themselves, while there is a group of Barolo lovers which slow-ox old Barolo (70s or older) for days before serving.

In contrast, aeration time for decanting is much simpler, the common consensus seems to be 2-4 hours before serving.

Advocates of the slow-ox method believes that excessive decanting would greatly reduces the aromas of the wine, and possibly leads to premature shutdown, leading to the famous quote from Audouze: “Everybody knows that when someone is found in a desert, still living but lacking cruelly of food and water, it is crucially important to feed him extremely slowly. If fed too quickly, he could die.”
We put Audouze’s theory to test in this tasting with surprising results.



The Results (Tasting):
Wine Method Group Ranking Total Scores (15 tasters) Number of preference (15 tasters)
A 1971 Francesco Rinaldi Barolo Decant 4 hrs 10 120 Not compared
B 1971 Francesco Rinaldi Barolo Slow-ox 4 days 11 153 Not compared
C 1982 Ceretto Bricco Rocche Brunate Decant 4 hrs 5 82 Not compared
D 1982 Ceretto Bricco Rocche Brunate Slow-ox 4 days 12 167 Not compared
E 1990 Domenico Clerico Barolo Pajana Decant 4 hrs 7 89 6/15
F 1990 Domenico Clerico Barolo Pajana Slow-ox 4 days 6 84 9/15
G 2014 Brovia Barolo Unio Decant 4 hrs 8 103 7/15
H 2014 Brovia Barolo Unio Slow-ox 4 days 9 105 8/15
I 2010 Cavallotto Barolo Bricco Boschis Decant 4 hrs 1(Joint) 64 8/15
J 2010 Cavallotto Barolo Bricco Boschis Slow-ox 4 days 4 74 7/15
K 2004 Aldo Conterno Barolo Romirasco Decant 4 hrs 1(Joint) 64 6/15
L 2004 Aldo Conterno Barolo Romirasco Slow-ox 4 days 3 65 9/15

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Wine B and wine D were unfortunately corked and not included in the analysis, making the decanted 1971 Francesco Rinaldi the least preferred wine by the group.

1971 Francesco Rinaldi Barolo (A: Decanted 4 hrs, B: Slox-ox 4 days)

Prior to the tasting, many feared that the aeration time of 4 hrs / 4 days would be too long for this 48 years old wine, but interestingly, despite that B was tainted, no taster described either wines as oxidative. No first, no second, no last for the decanted wine, it was described as a typical old Barolo, foursquared, and not exciting.

*The dinner wine (slow ox 4 hrs) was judged to be much more vibrant and fresh by the group.

1982 Ceretto Bricco Rocche Brunate (C: Decanted 4 hrs, D: Slox-ox 4 days)

Again, no taster described either wines as oxidative. 2 firsts, 2 seconds, no last for the decanted wine, while D was tainted. The decanted wine was my personal WOTN and overall, it came 5th. The wine was in its sweet spot for the first half of the tasting, and then the intensity of the wine somewhat decreased. Tasters described it as a pretty wine with red fruits, minty, herbal, balsamic and tea notes and loosely knitted structure.
The 1982 Ceretto is the first “Modernist” Barolo of the evening, aged 12 months in 50% new barrique and then 12 months in 2500L botti. From a warm vintage, it made a very convincing case for decanting.
*The dinner wine (slow ox 4 hrs) was again more vibrant, showing more of the silky tannins which Cru Brunate is famous for.

1990 Domenico Clerico Barolo Pajana (E: Decanted 4 hrs, F: Slox-ox 4 days)

The first real comparison of the two aearation methods. 1990 was the first vintage of “Pajana” by ultra-modernist Domenico Clerico, sourced from Cru Ginestra, it underwent a short maceration (7 days), before aging for 18 months in 100% barriques.
Received well within the group, the decanted wine had 3 firsts, 1 second, no last, while the slow-ox wine had 2 firsts, 1 second, and no last. Many were impressed by the exotic spices, and rich, ripe tannins of the wines, but the slow-ox wine was judged as cleaner, and more polished, while the decanted wine was richer and sweeter.
Overall, the ranking of the slow ox wine was 1 place higher, and within the group, 6 people preferred the decanted version while 9 people preferred the slow ox version.
A clear victory for slow-ox.

*Some taster thought that the dinner wine (slow ox 4 hrs) was fresher than the tasting wines (some mentioned the word oxidative), others thought that the dinner wine had harsher tannins.

2014 Brovia Barolo Unio (G: Decanted 4 hrs, H: Slox-ox 4 days)
A direct comparison of the two aeration method on the youngest vintage, 2014. 2014 was considered to be one of the weakest vintage in recent years because of gray summer and heavy rains. Back in traditionist territories, the decanted wine had no firsts, 1 second, and 2 lasts, while the slow-ox wine had no first, 1 second, and no last.
Tasters described the decanted wine as lively, supple, loose-knit, and floral, while the slow-ox wine was judged as more tight knit, more spices, but bitter on finish.
Overall, the ranking of the decanted wine was 1 place higher, and within the group, 7 people preferred the decanted version while 8 people preferred the slow ox version.
A tie, I actually felt that this pair of wines needs even longer aeration!
*The dinner wine (slow-ox 4 hrs) showed much younger tannins significantly less evolved when compared with the tasting wines.

2010 Cavallotto Barolo Bricco Boschis (I: Decanted 4 hrs, J: Slox ox 4 days)
The 2010 vintage of Bricco Boschis was considered to be the most complete vintage and a modern-day classic which bears reminiscent of 1990. It is a vintage which many critics found showing well in its youth, even during cask tastings.
The decanted wine was joint WOTN, and had 2 firsts, 3 seconds, no last, while the slow-ox wine was number 4 with 1 first, 1 second, no last.
Tasters described the decanted wine as rounded, pleasurable, with sweet spice, vanilla, and a smooth palate, while the slow-ox wine was judged as more closed initially but improved with time.
While the rating of the decanted wine was 3 place higher, within the group, 8 people preferred the decanted version while 7 people preferred the slow-ox version.
A clear victory for decanting.
*The dinner wine (slow-ox 4 hr) again showed significantly less development and balance when compared with the tasting wines.

2004 Aldo Conterno Barolo Romirasco (K: Decanted 4 hrs, L: Slow-ox 4 days)
With the decanted wine getting joint WOTN (4 firsts, 1 second, no last) and the slow-ox wine (1 first, 4 seconds, no last) getting third place, this was unquestionably the most preferred wine of the evening, but also the most debated one, tasters discussed throughout the evening regarding the “modern, vanilla oak” tastes of the wine. In the heated discussion, one taster stated that Aldo Conterno is the most overrated winery in Barolo while at the other end of the table, another taster is searching for scientific research results to prove that one cannot get vanilla and toasty notes from botti because the large oak casks cannot be toasted!

Aldo Conterno once stated that “Vanilla, toast, spice and sweet tannins don’t belong in Barolo”, but many tasters did indeed found notes of Vanilla, spice, and sweet tannins in his 2004 Romirasco. The decanted wine was described as complex, delicate yet powerful, like a ballerina, while some found notes of crush ants and vanillas. The slow-ox wine has deeper, finer tannins, and a hint of sour plum extracts.
While the rating of the decanted wine was 2 place higher, within the group, 6 people preferred the decanted version while 9 people preferred the slow-ox version. The overall scores of the two wines were almost identical, 64 vs 65. A tie for me.
It is well known that when compared with his brother, Aldo Conterno did make a more approachable style of Barolo with shorter maceration times, he also used pump over instead of the traditional submerged cap during maceration. An unique practice of the winery is that they recondition their botti by scrapping out part of the oak that has been in contact with the wine the previous year. Is this the reason for the “vanilla taste”? From my personal experience, these tastes do soften over longer extended aeration or with bottle age.
*The dinner wine (slow-ox 4 hr) showed even younger, and some tasters feel that the wine showed better in the tasting section compared with the dinner section.

4 Barolos for dinner. 3 of the greatest traditionist Barolo producers for drinking, and 1 single Cru Barolo in the sauce.

Other Dinner wines:

2016 Claudio Mariotto Timorasso “Pitasso”

Fresh and good extracts, great example and one of the best Timorasso.

2006 Bartolo Mascarello Barolo, Magnum (Slow-ox 4 days)

2006 Giacomo Conterno Barolo Cascina (Slow-ox 4 days)

2006 Giuseppe Cappellano Barolo Pie Rupestris (Slow-ox 4 days)

The dinner ended with a horizontal flight of three 2006 from three of the best traditional Barolo producers. None of the tasters found any oxidative notes, but some tasters detected some pruney notes in the Cappellano which they associate with matured Barolo.

The overall preference of the group was for the all round Bartolo Mascarello and the more exotic, dried fruit driven Cappellano, the Conterno was somewhat more restrained and yet to come to its balance.


Summary and recommendation

Be brave to aerate your young and old Barolos. Nebbiolo can takes lots of oxygen. As one taster said, with age, Nebbiolo just evolve, and becomes another thing.

This tasting shows that decanting do work nicely against slow-ox. A long decant would give roughly comparable, and sometimes even better results than slow-ox for days (Great news when ordering in a restaurant!). However, it must be noted that narrow decanters were used in this tasting.
The 1971 and 1982 were much fresher during the dinner (slow-ox 4 hrs), while 2004, 2010, 2014 definitely needed longer aeration than the 4 hrs slow-ox.

The general overall recommendation from me would be to slow-ox 4 hrs or longer for Barolo over 30 years old, to decant 4 hrs or longer for Barolo under 15 years, and to experiment with both methods for those in between according to the vintage condition and to the style of the producer
In order to add fuel to the debate of the Barolos from Aldo Conterno, I will donate the 1999 Aldo Conterno Barolo Cicala for this year’s annual dinner.

The shape of the decanter used in this tasting.

[winetastic]

Thanks for the wine science and the write up Jamie! Fascinating.

[JamieBahrain]

1971 F Rinaldi Barolo- I've had many old Rinaldis. We lost one to TCA and I preferred the slow-oxed bottle over dinner which drew out complex red fruits amongst developed porcini like notes. Its long and lean though builds flavour with food.

The risotto dish was cooked in 2 bottles of Serralunga Barolo 2010 from a lessor and unnamed producer. Alan the organiser is quite fastidious.

93pts


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[JamieBahrain]

Albino Rocca is a winery worth seeking out. They are making some very fine and long-living Barbarescos'. I'm taken back by Angelo 2015. I thought it would be a 'worked" style but on the contrary, it's Giacosa like in its beguiling purity and regional "classicism".

I met Angelo a number of times. He was a recreational pilot who sadly joined the long list of pilots I've known who were killed in aviation accidents. The winery is also very welcoming and the family lovely. So their striking form of late is warming as its nice to buy and drink wines from nice people!

Albino Rocca Barbaresco 2016-Vineyards in the villages of: BARBARESCO, NEIVE, SAN ROCCO SENO D’ELVIO (ALBA). Quite expansive and differences of soil compositions.

Over a few nights the wine was striking aromatically for a normale ( they make 4 Cru wines a riserva and Angelo ). Airy nebbiolo lightness with wild strawberry, raspberry, sour cherry and dried apple. Very powerful wine that drives straight to a long finish- day one austerity is transformed with food into an un-yiedling yet complete mouthfeel. By day two the plate is building. Early days but there's a lot going on here- it doesn't have the immediacy of upfront complexity, its a wine with cerebral interest in its structure/ texture and how it reflects the growing season.

92pts +


Albino Rocca Barbaresco "Angelo" 2015- I think I've bought x 3 and x 6 of most vintages and will continue to do so ! This is my first try.

Production area : Barbaresco (Ronchi, Ovello), San Rocco Seno d’Elvio (Montersino)

Oh, initially that mulchy Burgundian ripeness but good aeration presents a beguiling wine with cleansing and delicate citrus-menthol with wilder darker berry like fruit and fresh rose. Beautiful, smooth and even, its long and deceptively powerful, Giacosa-like in its timeless catch of season and place. Over the days the fruit tickles, its there but not ready to show in a grand form, the wine is still gratifying with its effortless nature and power.

96pts+






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[winetastic]

Albino Rocca, the superior Rocca

[JamieBahrain]

You know I've 30 year old Bruno Rocca Rabaja magnums and 90's Albino Rocca- great tasting theme. Thing is, Albino Rocca was modernist and has shifted toward the traditional camp- better for it as the wines appear to be staggering in quality!

[Willard]

Thanks for the notes on A Rocca Jamie, I enjoyed the 2014 even so I'll keep an eye out for these ones.

Thanks also for the write up on the aeration trial. Given the quite small volumes of old Barolo that I look forward to drinking in the future, big comparisons like this are very interesting and useful information. Cheers.

Will

[JamieBahrain]

I had a look at a 2009 Barolo and a 2011 Barbaresco as backfilling these vintages to drink now onwards is pretty affordable. A Manzone Barolo Gramolere 2009 ( Monforte ) was beautiful aromatically, floral fresh and mineral rich, with palate extract showing carob/tar/chocolate/ light prune some may be upset with. Fine for me though. Happy to backfill. Olek's Roncagliette Barbaresco 2011 is dark aromatically, the fruit is beautiful and fresh, tannins typically firm though abating, with a gentle warmth from the 15%. Barbaresco probably needs to be more circumspectly assessed.

[Ddavew]

Hi all,

looks like this is a right place to ask, anyone tried the following recently?i only have 2 bottles of each so i really don't want to open them if they are still too young?

PRODUTTORI DEL BARBARESCO 2010
BENEVELLI PIERO, Barolo 2007

[JamieBahrain]

Best to hold the PdB IMO.

[JamieBahrain]

Hard to believe Cappellano stayed under the radar for so long. The 2004 pie Franco is magnificent! 2013 pie Rupestris is in its dumb phase.





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Roagna Crichet Paje. 2002 is magnificent and reminds me of Monfortino from the same vintage in its high performance from a struggling vintage. 2005 is lean and elegant and improved in the decanter- but decades away from prime time !


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Paje riserva 1998 is a stunner and still evolving. 97 is very Burgundian though sparks fly on a fiery long length

[Con J]

Hi Jamie.

Thanks for the report on some very nice and rare wines.

I've only ever seen one Roagna Riserva and that was in a small place in Barbaresco a couple of years ago, not sure if it was a 1996 or 1998 with a price tag of well over 1000 euro's.

I've got a few of the Crichet Paje, a couple each of the 2000 and 2001, by your notes I should still keep them for a while?

Cheers Con.

[Ddavew]

Best to hold the PdB IMO.

will put this back in the dark holes then.

thanks