The Red or White Burgundy thread

[michel]

:

Photographs are included for Authenticity Jamie

I'm new to lurking here MIchel and missed this.

[Hacker]

I had a 2001 Robert Chevillon Roncieres for lunch the other day. Was probably my WOTY, powerful but velvety and silken. Each sip had me taking more and more notice. Soft cherries and fine resolved tannins, and beautiful length. So much to love. Perfect with baked salmon.

[michel]

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Pretty spiffy New Years evening
I will add some notes

[michel]

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Pretty spiffy New Years evening
I will add some notes

the 2006 Ruinart bdb is not in the same league as the 04 - the 04 is more structured and linear- the 06 is a tad generous for my liking

1971 d'yquem was on song with generous perfume but but
was outdone by the suprise package
1971 Suduiraut opened bizarre and wax - a gentle decant and this was haunting

[michel]

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I once had an exceptional 2008 Boillot Chambertin that was perfumed and feminine
As is this Bonnes Mares

[felixp21]

I was down in Aus recently for a wedding, and had a swag of wines whilst there, including some super Burgundies:

2006 Domaine Fontaine-Gagnard Batard Montrachet
absolutely one of my go-to Burgundy GC's, never lets you down. Spectacular as always, incredible length, focus and complexity all rolled into that "fatness" seen from the vineyard. Just awesome. In the context of great wines, ridiculous value. 96pts drink now-2025

2010 Domaine Leflaive Batard Montrachet
firstly, a collective "phew!!" as the bottle was (incredibly) not pre-moxed. Another big, fat but beautiful wine. A lot of Burgundy lovers are coming to the conclusion that the 2010's are maturing much faster than expected, and this is another wine to support that. I think it's just about drinking at it's peak, although it should stay here for at least the next five years. Probably not as long as the Fontaine-Gagnard, but never-the-less the two wines are incredibly similar. 95pts drink now-2023.

2007 Phiippe Colin Chevalier Montrachet
when he's not off skiing, this guy makes super wines. You kinda gotta hope the good Burgundy years co-incide with the poor ski seasons hehe. As you would expect, this is more stone fruits then the tropical fruits of the Batards, more linear and precise, with unbelievable length. Having these three wines together really contrasted the two vineyards. I just love me a great Chevalier, and this was one of those. It is annoying wines like these that make us idiots keep buying White Burgundy, even when we know we shouldn't 97pts drink: now-2020+

We also went thru heaps of excellent other WB's, but these were definitely the three whites that truly struck a chord with me. Not as many red Burgundies, it was just a little too hot most of the time!!

2002 Domaine du Tart Clos de Tart
been powering thru a case of these over the past 2-3 years, I think this was about number six. Lovely wine, very floral and nuanced. However, I think I'll leave the remaining bottles for another decade to let the wine fully develop it's tertiary characteristics, there just might be something very special awaiting the patient. 94+ drink 2025-2040

2011 Domaine Ponsot Clos de la Roche vv
this vintage just keeps getting better and better. I don't think wines from 2011 will make old bones, but that does not really detract from the quality the top echelon wines have. Gorgeous wine, so light on it's feet, but intense with the iconic Peacock's tail at the end. We decided that if you wanted to show a Burgundy new-comer the heights that this region can achieve, this bottle would be a pretty good place to start. No doubt about it, this wine displays all the characteristics that make this region both incredible and unique. 97pts drink: now-2030.

2006 Follin-Arbelet Corton Bressandes GC
I love this Domaine, very under-rated, and I love Corton reds, also under-rated. Beautiful red fruits, violets, earth and a touch of anise, but marred but a slightly clipped finish. I think the Nuits did much better than the Beaune in 06, and this strengthened my view. A good wine, an incredible nose, but let down at the end. 89pts, drink: 2020-2030.

2002 Nicholas Potel Latricieres Chambertin
this wine is fully mature, and on the black fruit spectrum. Loads of plums, earth, cigar box and a background hint of truffles. Good if not great length. I am beginning to think I am a Chambolle-Morey man, and less so a Gevrey-Nuits man. 90pts drink: now-2020.

2002 Armand Rousseau Lavaux St Jacques 1er Cru
this too is a fully mature wine from 2002. As always, this is superbly polished, to the point it lacks any real personality and sense of place, which is a criticism I have with many of Rousseau's wines. Still, it does scream Gevrey, if not the vineyard, and is full of red fruits, earth and (again) cigar box. Really reminds me of the Cherbaudes from Fourrier in the same vintage. A good, if rather unexciting, wine. 90pts, drink now-2020.

Wedding wines:

NV Champagne Guilleminot Cuvee Prestige
A magnificent grower champagne from down in the Aube, so a Blanc de Noirs as expected. Lovely, I tried a glass from Imperial, Double magnum, magnum and bottle (all disgorged 2016) and couldn't tell the difference. Although there was little or no premium for the larger formats here, I would never pay the absurd premiums demanded by the big Houses for their large formats.

2015 Domaine Jean Chartron Bourgogne Blanc "La clos des Combes"
Super little wine, fruit forward and ready to go, ideal for a large wedding. Lots of stone fruit action, surprising length. Excellent for it's level. 88pts

2015 Domaine Marchand-Tawse Bourgogne Rouge N-47
If you can get past the fact that this wine was made by a Pom who churned out the 2010's from Pegau, then you can have yourself a startlingly good Bourgogne. Complex, long and moreish, this wine deserves to be drink by the bottle, not the glass. Genuine hang-over material, but in a good way. Destroys 95% of Aussie pinots. 90pts

[Ozzie W]

Wedding wines:

NV Champagne Guilleminot Cuvee Prestige
A magnificent grower champagne from down in the Aube, so a Blanc de Noirs as expected. Lovely, I tried a glass from Imperial, Double magnum, magnum and bottle (all disgorged 2016) and couldn't tell the difference. Although there was little or no premium for the larger formats here, I would never pay the absurd premiums demanded by the big Houses for their large formats.

2015 Domaine Jean Chartron Bourgogne Blanc "La clos des Combes"
Super little wine, fruit forward and ready to go, ideal for a large wedding. Lots of stone fruit action, surprising length. Excellent for it's level. 88pts

2015 Domaine Marchand-Tawse Bourgogne Rouge N-47
If you can get past the fact that this wine was made by a Pom who churned out the 2010's from Pegau, then you can have yourself a startlingly good Bourgogne. Complex, long and moreish, this wine deserves to be drink by the bottle, not the glass. Genuine hang-over material, but in a good way. Destroys 95% of Aussie pinots. 90pts

Nice wedding wines! The wines were almost always so bad at wedding receptions I've attended that I couldn't drink them.

I recall one wedding in particular. I was dreading the wines on offer so much, I decided to bring my own bottle and place it on the table. Nobody noticed.

[Rossco]

Nice wedding wines! The wines were almost always so bad at wedding receptions I've attended that I couldn't drink them.

I recall one wedding in particular. I was dreading the wines on offer so much, I decided to bring my own bottle and place it on the table. Nobody noticed.

Hahahahaha back in my uni days I worked at a wedding reception venue in Essendon (since closed).
The standard wine was so bad there I once had a lovely lady tell me the wine was corked. My reply was I'm very sorry, but it's not corked, it's just REALLY bad. I got her a new bottle, opened it in front of her.....sure enough exact same wine as the first bottle. We both had a laugh and she drank mineral water for the rest of the night.... Ahhh those were the days

[Con J]

I recall one wedding in particular. I was dreading the wines on offer so much, I decided to bring my own bottle and place it on the table. Nobody noticed.

Hi Ozzie.

I take my own wine regularly at receptions or become the designated driver and the wife can drink .

Cheers Con.

[Polymer]

2010 Domaine Leflaive Batard Montrachet
firstly, a collective "phew!!" as the bottle was (incredibly) not pre-moxed.

LOL..that about summarizes Leflaive..Hopefully the change to Diam will change this (although I'm not convinced).

Lovely wines...but it is absolutely heartbreaking when they're goners..

[felixp21]

2008 Henri Boillot Puligny Montrachet Clos de la Mouchere
yet another incredibly good and non-premoxed White Burgundy. Layers of stone fruits, honey and whiteflowers, rich but retains beautiful focus and excellent drive. At peak now, but no hurry. A real treat. 94pts drink: now-2025

[jafa]

Been looking over a merchants current offerings. How does Drouhin Laroze rate in the wine making stakes these days?

They've some great properties, 160+ years at making wine, but I've never thought of them as shooting the lights out,
so shied away from buying the produce, but... these's some '16 Lavaut St Jacques at what seems a reasonable price ( for red burg).

Anyone care to cast an opinion on recent performance?

[michel]

2012 henri boillot 1er genevrieres oyster shell oyster like orchardy complexity
Wonderful

2008 Rousseau clos de la roche
The table oohed and was captivated by the perfume and earth like structure

2008 Cristal
Feckoff Father Ted
This is incredible
Buy buy buy,

2010 Rousseau clos st Jacques
Mother Nature created the most hauntingly spiritual wine ever......
Faultless

[Wizz]

Been looking over a merchants current offerings. How does Drouhin Laroze rate in the wine making stakes these days?

They've some great properties, 160+ years at making wine, but I've never thought of them as shooting the lights out,
so shied away from buying the produce, but... these's some '16 Lavaut St Jacques at what seems a reasonable price ( for red burg).

Anyone care to cast an opinion on recent performance?

Very new world in their winemaking approach. I tried the range once a few years ago and passed.

Lavaut is a tricky vineyard, does exceptionally well in some years and very ordinary in others. Take care here.

[JamieBahrain]

We have a few on this month. I'll try and write them up and thought you may be interested in this brief before our event.. I'm not that impressed with the variability of Burgundy.






Dear Jamie,

This event is now full. Confirmed seats will be sent out later this week.

****************
Ruchottes Chambertin is one of those special vineyards in Burgundy which, like Clos Saint Jacques, has a lot of history, not much of which is widely known. The vineyard is separated into about 27 small parcels shared by only 8 owners, but that was not the case 100 years ago when the biggest chunk was owned by the Maison Thomas Bassot. In fact, they owned the best part of it, the “Clos des Ruchottes”, an area inside Ruchottes-Chambertin that is ideally located. Armand Rousseau had been watching the ‘Clos’ for many decades, waiting for the day a sale would happen. This link - http://winehog.org/thomas-bassot-treasure-r ... tin-19846/ - offers a detailed history of how the Clos ended up in the hands of Charles Rousseau in 1976. As the overall Ruchottes plots were too big for Rousseau to buy, he shared it with his friends, Jean-Marie Roumier and Georges Mugneret. 40 years later, out of the 8 who make it, it is these 3 Domaines who make the best Ruchottes Chambertin.

In this tasting, we will have the rare pleasure of tasting the 1945 and the 1969 vintages of “Clos des Ruchottes Chambertin” from the original producer, Thomas Bassot (who also produced a generic GC Ruchottes). We will then follow the tasting with a line-up of the best vintages produced so far by the Domaine Rousseau: 1990, 1991, 1993, 1999, 2002, 2005. Then, to add some comparative interest, we will compare, blind, 4 producers of Ruchottes Chambertin Grand Cru from the 2006 vintage – let’s see how many of us can detect the Rousseau “touch” from the previous 6 wines we have tasted.

To make sure participants have the chance to taste these wines as they should be enjoyed, we are both providing a back-up bottle for each of the wines featured this evening. We’ll also have more Grand Crus red wines from burgundy to accompany the dinner. An article on Ruchottes will appear on the night.

Tasting Wines
1945 THOMAS BASSOT, "Clos des Ruchottes-Chambertin" Grand Cru
1969 THOMAS BASSOT, "Clos des Ruchottes-Chambertin" Grand Cru
1990 ROUSSEAU, Ruchottes Chambertin Grand Cru "Clos des Ruchottes" Monopole
1991 ROUSSEAU, Ruchottes Chambertin Grand Cru "Clos des Ruchottes" Monopole
1993 ROUSSEAU, Ruchottes Chambertin Grand Cru "Clos des Ruchottes" Monopole
1999 ROUSSEAU, Ruchottes Chambertin Grand Cru "Clos des Ruchottes" Monopole
2002 ROUSSEAU, Ruchottes Chambertin Grand Cru "Clos des Ruchottes" Monopole
2005 ROUSSEAU, Ruchottes Chambertin Grand Cru "Clos des Ruchottes" Monopole
2006 ROUSSEAU, Ruchottes Chambertin Grand Cru "Clos des Ruchottes" Monopole
2006 MUGNERET-GIBOURG [Georges Mugneret], Ruchottes Chambertin Grand Cru
2006 ROUMIER Georges, Ruchottes Chambertin Grand Cru
2006 ESMONIN Frederic, Ruchottes Chambertin Grand Cru

Dinner Wines
2009 GIRARDIN, Puligny-Montrachet Les Combettes 1er Cru
1996 JADOT Louis, Chambertin Clos de Bèze, Grand Cru
+ Mystery Griotte-Chambertin, Grand Cru
+ Mystery Chambertin Clos de Bèze, Grand Cru

Dinner Menu
• Black cod and Matsuba crab cubes, green apple puree, pickled fennel, osmanthus
• Pappardelle with lamb shoulder ragout, dried mint, Sichuan peppercorn, red currant
• Iberico pluma pork, boudin noir, fingerling potatoes, red wine jus
• Cheese trio: l'Abondance (Haute-Savoie), Brie de Meaux (Seine/Marne), Morbier (Franche-Comté)

[brodie]

2012 henri boillot 1er genevrieres oyster shell oyster like orchardy complexity
Wonderful

2008 Rousseau clos de la roche
The table oohed and was captivated by the perfume and earth like structure

2008 Cristal
Feckoff Father Ted
This is incredible
Buy buy buy,

2010 Rousseau clos st Jacques
Mother Nature created the most hauntingly spiritual wine ever......
Faultless

Thanks Michel, for these notes they sound wonderful. Have 3/4 of these in the cellar.

Brodie

[brodie]

32nd wedding anniversary dinner. Brought along the 2007 Rousseau Chambertin. Drinking perfectly right now. Wonderful floral bouquet and amazing depth of fruit whilst being light on its feet. Elegant, harmonious, refined, poised, subtle, graceful and yet powerful. Such a great wine.

[michel]

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My second brush with 2001 this year and for me a favourite burgundy year
Bagged early after the 1999
Most are in a perfect mouthfeel space.

Interesting discussion around 2015
Could this be the greatest Vogue Musigny in my lifetime...

[michel]

32nd wedding anniversary dinner. Brought along the 2007 Rousseau Chambertin. Drinking perfectly right now. Wonderful floral bouquet and amazing depth of fruit whilst being light on its feet. Elegant, harmonious, refined, poised, subtle, graceful and yet powerful. Such a great wine.

Sounds awesome
When I used to read old Halliday Burgundy notes he would talk about the old saying
Iron fist in a velvet glove
To me that is Chambertin

[felixp21]

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My second brush with 2001 this year and for me a favourite burgundy year
Bagged early after the 1999
Most are in a perfect mouthfeel space.

Interesting discussion around 2015
Could this be the greatest Vogue Musigny in my lifetime...

I think 2010 has 2015 covered at the very top, but I have no doubt that 2015 red Generics and Village level wines are the greatest in my lifetime. Almost every 2015 Village wine I have seen has been utterly stupendous.
I also like the 2015 whites a lot more than many of the critics, again at the lower levels.

[michel]

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My second brush with 2001 this year and for me a favourite burgundy year
Bagged early after the 1999
Most are in a perfect mouthfeel space.

Interesting discussion around 2015
Could this be the greatest Vogue Musigny in my lifetime...

I think 2010 has 2015 covered at the very top, but I have no doubt that 2015 red Generics and Village level wines are the greatest in my lifetime. Almost every 2015 Village wine I have seen has been utterly stupendous.
I also like the 2015 whites a lot more than many of the critics, again at the lower levels.

Time will tell but 2010 has always ticked the true burgundy boxes of elegance and minerals but this 2015 was incredible....

[felixp21]

over in NYC for a couple of days, some beautiful Burgundies at a small wedding:

2007 Bonneau du Martray Corton Charlemagne
Magnum... stunning, young but drinking superbly. Essence of a great CC. 97pts

2010 Coche-Dury Meursault
both bottles excellent for their level, rich yet incredible focus. Probably suffered after the CC, should have served it first. 93pts

2010 Raveneau Chablis GC Valmur
again, two outstanding bottles, both in perfect condition. Broad and pure, lovely 95pts

lots of champagne, Krug NV and Selosse Carelles, don't know the disgorge date, but again, in top form. A wonderful afternoon in a cold NYC.

[michel]

1985 Rousseau Beze magnum
This why we cellar
A perfect juxtaposition in development and fruit earthiness
Wonderful

[felixp21]

2015 Meo-Camuzet Pommard

Lovely village wine. Rich and inviting, black fruits and liquorice and dark cherries. Avoids the rusticity and barnyard that many Pommards from 2015 suffer from. Excellent, and drinking well now. 91pts

[brodie]

Wine gods smiled last night, every wine was excellent.

In the Chevalier flight, the 2010 PYCM was the most popular but I loved the 2014 Bouchard. The 2012 Chartron was the surprise package, performing very well and impressing everyone. Three very strong wines, youthful powerful and just fantastic.

In the 1st flight of red burgs, both the 2007s showed really well and were drinking in the zone. The 2001 Ponst Clos St Denis was wild ride, slightly funky nose but very powerful and long.

The 2002 Bonnes Mare flight was another winner. The Groffier was the most approachable, the de Vogue the most powerful and the most youthful (10+ years needed) and the Le Moine was a bit lost in the comparison.

Finished with a fantastic bottle of 1983 Yquem.

[felixp21]

Thanks Brodie, interesting tasting!!

Jean Chartron has come on in leaps and bounds in very recent years, after a huge overall in his vineyards commencing in 2010, and an equally huge improvement in his winery, around the same time. The 2012 Chevalier is an excellent wine, but his "skull and cross-bones" wine (his personal favourite, the Chevalier) went to an entirely different level commencing with the 2014 vintage. The 14, 15 and 16 are at the top of the tree for the vineyard. Interestingly, as the label implies, his plot there is in a separate Clos, contained within. I prefer this wine to his Montrachet, almost every vintage.

Lucien le Moine is now a superb Maison, but they didn't really hit their straps until the 2005 vintage. Your notes seem to be consistent with that.

The 2007 vintage seems to be going from strength to strength, not dissimilar to 2011.

[JamieBahrain]

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Strange night at the HK Club. Nebbiolo was drab performance and wine of the night a magnum from Tassie- 2001 Providence Miguet Reserve.

Other magnums included Lamarche 76 ( average ) and 98 Gaffe Lecoq Echezeaux ( good ).

[JamieBahrain]

A few of my friends from my wine group had dinner with William Kelley of the WA.

Theme was mature Burgundy. Lots of good wines. William's Ramonet !er Chassagne Montrachet 1994 was excellent served at warmer than normal. Certainly showed more grace and finesse than a 98 Bonneau du Matray.

Reds I'll post photos of. 77 Joseph Voillot Volnay Les Champans a surprise and I liked my Courcel Pommard Rugiens 1985 a ripper.

[felixp21]

1999 Meo-Camuzet NSG Aux Murgers
One of the middle-of-the-road PC's from NSG, this speaks much more of the producers than the commune/vineyard. Loads of polished blue and black fruits, rich and long. Like so many 99's, nowhere near ready and needs at least another decade. Frustrating!! Still, should turn out beautifully... 94+ pts, drink 2030-2050.

[felixp21]

Autumn at last, and the (slightly) cooler weather has arrived. Better wine-drinking temperatures
Had the chance to go along to a high-end Faiveley event, show-casing the 2015 vintage. As I have said countless times, I absolutely rate this year in Burgundy, the drinkability of wines from all levels is quite staggering, just about every wine I have seen has been a treat pretty much since they were in barrel. If you are a New World Pinot lover, this is certainly the year to put you toe into the delights of Burgundy.

2015 Corton Charlemagne
lots of citrus and whiteflowers. Steely and mineral dominant at this stage, needs another 3-4 years and should be a cracker. 92+pts

2015 Bienvenue-Batard-Montrachet
fat, luscious, long and complex. Brilliant wine, stunnning. Will age effortlessly, but so approachable right now. 95pts

2015 Mazis Chambertin
sweet black fruits, Gevrey earth, mineral and supremely long. Very approachable, but best in 5 years. 94pts

2015 Latricieres Chambertin
definitely an OMG wine. High toned black fruit, cool fruits and traces of spearmint, ridiculous length and complexity. Inviting, round tannins and steely mineral spine complete a staggering wine. Absolutely a must buy. 98+pts

2015 Clos de Vougeot
never a favourite of mine from this Maison. Red fruited, a distinct contrast to both the Mazis and Latricieres. Very taut, structured and slightly metallic. Having just said that the 15's are approachable, this needs time, and plenty of it. Not one of the stable's superstars. 90+pts

2015 Echezeaux
again, a pretty sweet-fruited wine with lots of red berries and spices. Reminiscent of an excellent Vosne. Also pretty structured, and should benefit from a decade in the cellar. 93+pts

2015 Corton Clos des Cortons
reminds me very much of the brilliant 2012. Easily the biggest wine of the night, this brute is crammed with black fruits and liquorice. Earth and violets, supreme length. Incredibly, you could drink this now, but I suspect it will be 30 years from now when this wine is in full bloom. Probably the best CdC that I have seen, eclipsing the brilliant 09 and 10 duo, and bettering the 16. 97+pts

2015 Chambertin Clos de Beze
as with any good example from this vineyard, the striking feature is the incredible purity of the lifted red and blue fruits. This is eerily similar to the Rousseau version of the same vintage, which surely is a great compliment. Magnificent, although a small notch below the sublime 2010 97+pts

2015 Chambertin Clos de Beze Cuvee Les Ouvree Rodin
to me, this is almost identical to the standard Cuvee, just a hint of sandalwood and dry extract more than that offering. At this stage, quite difficult to taste, this is another wine that needs a decade or two to show it's wares, and indeed a decade to become approachable. Hard to rate, but I would not score it any higher than the standard bottling. 97+pts

2005 Chambertin Clos de Beze
nice to look at a slightly older wine, although this is nowhere near maturity, which reflects both the wine-making at the time and the vintage itself. Big, rich, powerful and flattering, but perhaps lacking the nuance of the 2015. To me, it is a reflection of 2005 itself, a vintage that is a crowd pleaser, particularly to the New World audience, but ultimately lacking the finer detail of the truly great vintages. (of course, there are many and superb exceptions) 93pts.

Overall, a great night. The Faiveley representative confirmed my thoughts that 2015 is the greatest-yet, across-the-board vintage for the Domaine. I think these wines will close down, maybe in a few years, but not for a huge amount of time. The vast majority certainly provide absolutely superb drinking right now.