Tips for a rookie wine collector

[tuxy85]

I have been collecting/cellaring wine for about 2 years now. As a rookie wine collector I am interested in whether you have any tips on how to build a good collection that I will be able to enjoy in 5, 10, 20 and 30 years time? I am 33 years of age, so I hopefully have many years to collect and drink what I collect.

My collection is here [url]https://www.cellartracker.com/list.asp?table ... e6b22a387d[/url]

There are a number of constraints to my collection being:
*Storage - I have a 12 case locker at WineArk + a small wine fridge for current consumption. I may increase the size of my locker at some point in the next 5 to 10 years but ultimately I'd like to cap it at 30 cases.
* $$$ - my wife and I recently had our first child, as such our household income has been reduced while our expenses have increased.

Some issues that I acknowledge there may be with my collection at least once I start drinking it in 5 years time:
* I want to try everything as such there are many singles and doubles in my collection. I don't have any cases of a single type of wine other than a 6 pack of Mt Pleasant Rosehill that I purchased when my Qantas points were about to expire. Should I consider buying a smaller number of wines but larger quantities of what I do buy?
* many of the more expensive wines in my collection I have not actually tried - simply purchased on reputation and/or purchased for a future special occasion such as wedding anniversaries etc.
* at the moment my collection is almost exclusively Australian other than a few Champagnes and dessert wines that I have received as gifts.
* I have a big "fear of missing out" when I read reviews of new releases etc.
* Any tips on improving my patience? At the moment the quality of wine that I drink is much less than what I collect. Generally I'll spend a lot more on a wine to cellar than I will to consume immediately ....... which also has implications for my budget and I run the risk of opening some too soon.

I'd appreciate you tips and lessons that you have learned. What do you recommend that rookie wine collectors be mindful of? What do you wish you had done better when you started collecting wine?

Thanks in advance. I look forward to hearing from your collective wisdom. Cheers, David

[Matt@5453]

Set a realistic budget and stick to it

[cteague]

I'm probably around 3 or 4 years ahead of you in regards to building out my collection, so still rather new to it all in the greater scheme of things. Here's my take on things for what it's worth though.

My #1 rule is simple - wine is for drinking. It's too easy to get caught up in drinking windows, so shed no tears for the wine consumed decades prematurely. As long as it puts a smile on your face, it has done its job.

In working with this, I try and buy wines in lots of 3 or 4 where possible these days. No singles for cellaring. This lets you crack a bottle relatively early in its lifespan, which I think is important when you're still learning about the whole process. I want to remember what wines tasted like young in order to continuously refine my ability to pick a drinking window that suits my tastes and avoid wines that are going no-where. I feel that this could end up being a life-long endeavour.

That being said, diversity is important too. Being Adelaidean, I focussed a little too much on what I was comfortable with in the early days (i.e. big Barossa & McLaren reds). Whilst I'm happy to add more from this category (I still love it, after all!), I'm trying to be much more selective these days - only high quality at a good price point will get the nod now. I'm also actively trying to increase my exposure to other regions - theres just so much out there to explore.

My biggest cellaring tip is to work on your career, cause you're gonna need that cashflow

[Rossco]

Quality not quantity. Buy 2 or 3 of something rather than 6.

Dont load up on too many of one type/variety. You WILL regret it later as your tastes change as you get older & try more varieties.
Basically dont just go and buy Shriaz or Cab Sav from one region - My biggest regret.

If you are looking to cellar for the long term, ensure the provenance of every wine you buy - im learning the hard way now.

Buy whites as well as reds. Some whites age magnificently, but not all, so do your research.

Buy nebbiolo, Barolo is starting to hit big $$, although some there are still well priced producers out there.
Maybe look for some barbaresco's as well as Mt Etna region (my next venture when my Neb buying days are gone due to price).

Dont listen to media reviews and dont go chasing points. Where possible, try everything before you buy. The amount of '96+ point OMG BEST WINE EVER MUST BUY' wines I have had that are a let down is phenomenal.

[GraemeG]

There is always another vintage. And half the time the hype is plain wrong anyway. I remember all the hysteria that greeted the 97 Clare rieslings. Most of them were dead in 5 years, all of them by ten. And they were all mooted as 20-year wines. Hah.
So when the same ranting happened over 2002,2005, 2012 I was circumspect.
Buy 2/3/4 of things. The wine world is huge these days. The old "put away a dozen" was fine when there were only a few decent wines around, but now there's so much more wine.
That said, I suspect the portion of wine actually made to improve & evolve past 5 years is probably smaller than it ever was. Everyone's good at making wines to be immediately drinkable. Making stuff that truly develops is a bit elusive. When some flagship-ish wine says 'cellar for 10 years' on the back label, believe them (Saltram No 1, Meshach, Aberfeldy, Octavius, Dead Arm, etc). - edited to clarify - don't push your luck on these wines. Drink early rather than later. Sometimes the lighter-bodied stuff cellars better than the blockbusters.
Diversify. Cellar pinot, good chardonnay, semillon too.
(Disclaimer - I'm talking mostly about Oz wines here).
cheers,
Graeme

[Ozzie W]

Dont load up on too many of one type/variety. You WILL regret it later as your tastes change as you get older & try more varieties.
Basically dont just go and buy Shriaz or Cab Sav from one region - My biggest regret.

+1

When I started my cellar, I was into Aussie Shiraz big time and I bought heaps. 4 years later, I don't like it like I used to and would rather drink something else. Now I have 200 bottles of something I don't want to drink.

Go slow and don't rush to fill your cellar.

[Hpn3]

Tuxy85, I am at a similar age and at a similar stage in the wine journey, albeit with a few years of hospitality in my 20's which inevitably drew me in. I just wanted to address some of your points as I see them and have tried to implement in my own cellar.

We are in a golden age of Australian wine. From pinot noir, shiraz, riesling, chardonnay, gamay etc, typically our new world wines are on par with the old world. This might not be the view of those drinking Bordeaux or Burgundy since the 60’s, however, having never had the chance to buy wines for three tuppence a case we have only the current wines to compare against. I guess there is a reason that Jim Chatto compares his Isle Pinot to Rousseau. I think we can safely cellar quality wines at reasonable price points and expect that their closures will hold and the wines will develop positive ageing characters. That said, many people have noted that we are on a precipice of huge increases in Old World prices of wines typically affordable wines from Piedmont, Jura, Beaujolais, Etna etc. so it has been a good time to add these to the cellar over the last few years assuming you like to actually like to drink them.

In reference to the point above, I always look towards scarcity as well as personal preference in terms of what wines to cellar. We have such easy access (with a letter here, or a phone call there) to producers which have a much smaller amount of wine to offer due to the fact they are making it off either their own vineyards, or tending to someone else’s. If every wine you put into your cellar is from a farm owned and operated by a producer then the quality is always going to be greater than those aggregating huge amounts of grapes from vineyards out of their control. For example, having missed out on the Tyrrell’s 4 Acres in 2014, I made sure I became a Private Bin member. From then on, 3 bottles a year since then. Looking forward, the NVC is made in minute quantities and will become a Sacred Site in 2021 and there will be an 8 Acres next year which usually goes into Vat 9? To me, a producer with such a good track record with wines I like to drink, that seems like a no brainer. 540 bottles of Ruggabellus’s Archaeus made this year with such a good track record? Same again.

When putting bottles into the cellar, I always think, do I like the taste of the wines if they are aged? I guess having had the chance to try a couple of old bottles of pinot/cabernet/riesling/semillon you start to figure out if you like the taste and if the development is worth the cost of holding the wine for 10, 20, 30 years. 5/6th’s of the wine I convince my partner we need is crunched within a couple of weeks of buying it. I see the offsite cellar as more of a way to keep bottles out of harm’s way than that of preserving them for a time that may never come.

With the money issue, it is hard justifying a 6-pack at $65 a bottle with a young family. If you can, don’t pay retail prices. The Private Bin is a good example of wines a significant discount to retail, as of course Wendouree, Marius etc. are too. If you can find someone who works in the trade then that 6-pack easily comes down to the $40’s. Easier said than done but that mark-up is typically someone’s profit (and livelihood of course). FOMO is easily avoided by unsubscribing from retail mailing lists and limiting reading of review to only every couple of days (impossible).

[winetastic]

Dont load up on too many of one type/variety. You WILL regret it later as your tastes change as you get older & try more varieties.
Basically dont just go and buy Shriaz or Cab Sav from one region - My biggest regret.

+1

When I started my cellar, I was into Aussie Shiraz big time and I bought heaps. 4 years later, I don't like it like I used to and would rather drink something else. Now I have 200 bottles of something I don't want to drink.

Go slow and don't rush to fill your cellar.

+1, exact same story here.

I would suggest buying wines that go well with the kind of food you enjoy and don't forget white wines - hunter Semillon in particular is affordable and repays in a big way with careful cellaring.

Also spending a little time buying moderately aged wine at auction will give you a glimpse into what your wines may become. Often you can get great middle of the road bottles at less than the retail price of the current vintage. So if you enjoy Mt Pleasant Rosehill for example, try get your hands on some of the better vintages (eg 1998, 2003, 2007, 2009) and see if you enjoy them with some age. You may find you prefer them young, which makes life easier.

Try to avoid having more than one style/grape taking up more than say 20% of your cellar. Otherwise you may end up with a bunch of high octane mclaren vale shiraz under screwcap and have no desire to ever drink it...

[Craig(NZ)]

My tips from 25 years in the game.

1. Don't cellar oaky wines
2. Don't concentrate heavily on one style or region. Your tastes WILL change
3. For me wines that improve (not just change) are Bordeaux Blends (10+ years), good pinot and chardonnay (5-10 years) and perhaps to riesling. Semillon too has that reputation though I haven't in NZ got involved in that scene much
4. Let me be controversial....Syrah Shiraz I am yet to be convinced actually improves in the cellar but I haven't had too much experience with Rhone. Buy some yes but enjoy them young. There are a few exceptions Grange being one, but really overall .... sorry but I'm still waiting for an eureka moment there
5. Don't ever touch Burgundy or gambling or another woman if you love your marriage. They are all bad
6. Taste taste taste but don't buy buy buy. Stick to a plan. If you don't you will end up with a hoard not a cellar
7. Develop your own palate. I read plenty of reviews but end of the day my opinion is what counts. Swim against the tide sometimes. Develop and trust your palate
8. Develop relationships with a few wineries and stick with them long term. Support and develop a knowledge. The opportunities that present themselves over time if you do that will really enhance your experience
9. Realise wine and the whole wine scene is a business and so keep a healthy dose of cynicism. End of the day they all want your money lol
10. Buy vintage. More important in NZ perhaps but go long in good years and short or skip bad years especially on wines you want to keep long term

Have fun

[catchnrelease]

Don't buy too much SA shiraz. I don't even like it that much yet it makes up a significant chunk of my cellar. Don't go chasing points (which is how I ended up with so much SA shiraz).

[tarija]

My thoughts:

- Avoid buying average quality familiar varieties like cab sauv and shiraz as "midweek wines" - use this part of your budget to explore alternate varieties/foreign regions.

- Restrict buying to 3 max of top tier wine, and 2 max of mid-level wine. There is so much to buy out there, buying 6 and 12 packs burns budget and storage place quickly. There is no need to buy 6 or 12 packs of quaffers.

- Don't bother cellaring too much SA shiraz. Save your cellar space and budget, and if you really want an aged one you can easily buy mature versions of almost any SA shiraz st auction. They are rugged wines, with many made at large volumes.

- Cellar some of the old world classics - they are classic and world-famous for a reason.

- Get a Coravin.

- Buy back-vintage with good provenance whenever possible. It's no fun having just young wines that need 10-15 years of evolution.

- Have a diverse cellar. So many wonderful countries with their own specialties - France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Austria, Portugal, Hungary, Greece, Georgia, The Balkans, etc...

- Think of how you want to develop your wine collection.

- Have fun!

- Keep receipts away from the missus, and always understate the price by 50% when asked what prices are.

[michel]

My thoughts:

- Avoid buying average quality familiar varieties like cab sauv and shiraz as "midweek wines" - use this part of your budget to explore alternate varieties/foreign regions.

- Restrict buying to 3 max of top tier wine, and 2 max of mid-level wine. There is so much to buy out there, buying 6 and 12 packs burns budget and storage place quickly. There is no need to buy 6 or 12 packs of quaffers.

- Don't bother cellaring too much SA shiraz. Save your cellar space and budget, and if you really want an aged one you can easily buy mature versions of almost any SA shiraz st auction. They are rugged wines, with many made at large volumes.

- Cellar some of the old world classics - they are classic and world-famous for a reason.

- Get a Coravin.

- Buy back-vintage with good provenance whenever possible. It's no fun having just young wines that need 10-15 years of evolution.

- Have a diverse cellar. So many wonderful countries with their own specialties - France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Austria, Portugal, Hungary, Greece, Georgia, The Balkans, etc...

- Have fun!

- Keep receipts away from the missus, and always understate the price by 50% when asked what prices are.

Your insights are wickedly accurate !

A cellar should match your every whim
Find mentors to educate you
Do have temperature control
Mark Shield RIP said don’t worry there is always another bottle around the corner
Don’t horde your wine - taste and educate
Don’t buy in volume
We all purchased SA Shiraz in volume- DONT!

[Matt@5453]

Don’t horde your wine - taste and educate
Don’t buy in volume
We all purchased SA Shiraz in volume- DONT!

Some very good advice here on tasting and educating.
lots of comments against SA shiraz, but no-one has any recommendations on what buy instead. heaps of Cab and Pinot noir is underwhelming too. look out for emerging varieties too.
European wines are a mind field and are hit & miss at the best of times.
I don't subscribe to buying up in 'good' years, great wines are made in any vintage, comes back to education/knowledge of the producer and or region.

[rens]

Make sure your cellar has some:
Rioja
Barolo and Babresco
Châteauneuf-du-Pape
Chianti
Chateau Musar from Lebanon-Great at 15 years old
Oh, and don't forget the white stuff like German Rizzers, good chardy from Aus.
and buy in 3's unless you have mega bucks and a football field sized cellar.

[michel]

Don’t horde your wine - taste and educate
Don’t buy in volume
We all purchased SA Shiraz in volume- DONT!

Some very good advice here on tasting and educating.
lots of comments against SA shiraz, but no-one has any recommendations on what buy instead. heaps of Cab and Pinot noir is underwhelming too. look out for emerging varieties too.
European wines are a mind field and are hit & miss at the best of times.
I don't subscribe to buying up in 'good' years, great wines are made in any vintage, comes back to education/knowledge of the producer and or region.

I get your perspective
My feeling is don’t collect but try evolve and work out your palate first
And travel the planet
We are horders by nature but there are so many exciting opportunities to explore.
I regret so much the case of 1997 Port Phillip Reserve Mornington American oak driven shiraz!

[Matt@5453]

Agree on travelling the planet- will the Chinese wine market evolve one day?

[michel]

Agree on travelling the planet- will the Chinese wine market evolve one day?

I worry about food quality...

[Hacker]

There is a saying that seems all too true; ‘all roads lead to Burgundy.’ They don’t have to of course, but it implies that there is more in the red wine domain than cab sav and Shiraz. The Pinot noir grape in competent hands is sometimes a revelation, and both Australian an NZ winemakers are doing it very well. So even if it doesn’t appeal to you today, just put a small stash away for a few years to see how you feel about them then.

[JamieBahrain]

Agree on travelling the planet- will the Chinese wine market evolve one day?

I worry about food quality...

Food quality or safety?

The cuisine is exquisite and broad obviously. The wine regions are up coming, fascinating and well supported by massive local wealth. Mainland Chinese people are growing in their sophistication as consumers, seem to be adventurous and outgoing, in numbers that defy wage limitations and certainly equal or exceed the west in a quest for sophistication of existence.

It's easy to believe in Coke and Mouton, or Penfolds has no market in China, as myself and I'll drag in Felix here too, but I think the much of the wine investing here is on the mark.

[Craig(NZ)]

My thoughts:

- Restrict buying to 3 max of top tier wine, and 2 max of mid-level wine. There is so much to buy out there, buying 6 and 12 packs burns budget and storage place quickly. There is no need to buy 6 or 12 packs of quaffers.

.

Although I agree with the sentiment of this, please make exceptions!

I rarely buy even 6 of the same wine, but I have been known occasionally to buy a dozen, 15 bottles, 18 bottles, 24 bottles or I can think of one I am buying now where I have hoarded away <> 40 bottles and I may still buy more

Often you get to the end of your supply of a particular wine and really wish you had more. You have to back yourself and your palate and swim against the tide. I can think of many many wines where I knew I should have bought more but because I was tight, broke or just plain stupid I didn't. e.g. 2000 Pavillon Rouge that I had the opportunity to buy for $70..bought one!! Dip shit lol. Or 2007 Te Mata Awatea, or 2010 Puriri Hills Estate, 2014 Ata Rangi Pinot Noir

If you are going to do this ensure it is a style you love, ensure it is a great proven producer, ensure you have tried cellared wines of theirs before, and for me I ensure it is top value for money...they usually are not expensive flagship wines for me

[Craig(NZ)]

There is a saying that seems all too true; ‘all roads lead to Burgundy.’ They don’t have to of course, but it implies that there is more in the red wine domain than cab sav and Shiraz. The Pinot noir grape in competent hands is sometimes a revelation, and both Australian an NZ winemakers are doing it very well. So even if it doesn’t appeal to you today, just put a small stash away for a few years to see how you feel about them then.

Top pinot noir from NZ does improve in the cellar. I would say even at the 3 year mark you are seeing a noticeable improvement. Then it can be held for 3-5 years more before most will begin to decline (a couple of exceptions that last a lot longer)

Then overlay this with your cabernets and bordeaux that need or prefer a lot longer in the cellar to improve

The trick I think is providing "layers" in your cellar. Some wines that need a long time and some wines that don't that you can grab to drink and decoy away from those that need longer. For example I still have a 6 pack of 1994 Penfolds 707 which I have owned for 20 years. I know it needs time, I have been tempted, but have always had a decoy bottle chosen instead

[Wizz]

Hi Tuxy,

lots of widely varying advice here, some of which I agree with some of which i don't. A few principles to consider:

Wine collecting and wine drinking can be completely unrelated pasttimes. Be absolutely clear why you are buying and cellaring wine.
On FOMO - if you think globally, the wine industry is so big, changes so fast, its impossible to keep up. You will never see it all, taste it all or own it all. Recognise that now and move to point 3
Buy what you like, not what people tell you to like. Someone has already said it - wine has one job - to bring you pleasure. Don't buy stuff that doesn't do that. Lots of folk speaking against Barossa Shiraz. Hey if you enjoy it, buy it!
Key question - if you're buying and cellaring to drink - do you LIKE aged wine? Not everyone does!
You will make mistakes, and cellar some duds. That''s part of the fun.
Having said that don't buy just one variertal that you love, your palate will change and not every meal goes with, say, Pinot Noir, so I keep some Syrah, Sangiovese, Nebbiolo, and a bit of Cabernet for a change.
In the long run, 30 cases wont do the job. Among the contributors to this forum I suspect my cellar is relatively small at over 100 cases.

So much more I could say but I guess it gets unhelpful after a while,

Andrew

[Craig(NZ)]

Hi Tuxy,

In the long run, 30 cases wont do the job. Among the contributors to this forum I suspect my cellar is relatively small at over 100 cases.

So much more I could say but I guess it gets unhelpful after a while,

Andrew

I have been between 30 and 40 cases for the last 20 years and for me that has been totally sufficient. At the moment my guess is I am at 35 cases..my cellar records are not what they used to be!!! None of them are "who cares wines", they are all quality and carefully chosen

At the end of the day it depends on how many wines from your cellar you intend to drink per week. One a week will give you a six year in cellar average at 300 wines which for me is about right with the type of wines I buy.

Obviously a few wines I keep a lot longer, but on average it has worked for me. I just now <> replace what I drink and the size of the cellar has varied little

Maybe it proves that although I am obsessed, I am not obsessed (and not a drunk and not a hoarder) lol

Also I am coming up to 50 years old, so I am decreasingly interested in wines that need 15-25 years cellaring for obvious reasons

[Ian S]

Some thoughts below. I like that you're thinking about it, and haven't gone full speed towards that 30 case mark.

*Storage - I have a 12 case locker at WineArk + a small wine fridge for current consumption. I may increase the size of my locker at some point in the next 5 to 10 years but ultimately I'd like to cap it at 30 cases. It's a good target to cap buying at, but try to survive on the 12 case locker for as long as you can, then trade up to a 24 case one, and only after 2-3 years stretch to 30 cases. This allows you to flex as your palate changes / encounters new areas of excitement. FWIW my 'hurdles' were 100 bottles, which I maintained for a year or so, then 200 (another year or two), then 300 (maybe 2-3 years) and now I'm juts over 400 and holding, very intentionally constrained by space, otherwise I'd have a few thousand!

Some issues that I acknowledge there may be with my collection at least once I start drinking it in 5 years time:
* I want to try everything as such there are many singles and doubles in my collection. I don't have any cases of a single type of wine other than a 6 pack of Mt Pleasant Rosehill that I purchased when my Qantas points were about to expire. Should I consider buying a smaller number of wines but larger quantities of what I do buy? It's good to have the odd case, and these often seem the easiest wines to open, as there are more of them for later. If you're a vinous magpie (I am) then it's just how it is, so don't fight it. Do however be prepared to buy 3s, 6s or a full case of anything that blew your socks off for the price, or is a wine you genuinely just love
* many of the more expensive wines in my collection I have not actually tried - simply purchased on reputation and/or purchased for a future special occasion such as wedding anniversaries etc. Beware of special occasions being an excuse for never opening them. It's ok to make the wine the special occasion, and open something good but not scene-stealing for the special occasion.
* at the moment my collection is almost exclusively Australian other than a few Champagnes and dessert wines that I have received as gifts. It may stay that way, or you may discover other wine styles from abroad. The latter can be where that initial advice up above pays dividends, that a love of French or Italian wines can overtake your preferences in a big way.
* I have a big "fear of missing out" when I read reviews of new releases etc. That's why they write the reviews like they do. They want to be movers of wine, as it helps build their brand. There is a vintage of the century every 4-5 years
* Any tips on improving my patience? At the moment the quality of wine that I drink is much less than what I collect. Generally I'll spend a lot more on a wine to cellar than I will to consume immediately ....... which also has implications for my budget and I run the risk of opening some too soon. For me, dabbing in the auction market / buying off a friend who did that for a living, was a great way to get wines at proper maturity, whilst allowing new release wines I'd bought to mature. It's natural to have that split of cheaper wines for immediate drinking and more expensive ones to cellar. Having a good selection of 'cellar defenders' (appetising younger wines, or pre-matured wines) is a great way to allow the cellaring wines to get some proper maturity

I'd appreciate you tips and lessons that you have learned. What do you recommend that rookie wine collectors be mindful of? What do you wish you had done better when you started collecting wine?

Thanks in advance. I look forward to hearing from your collective wisdom. Cheers, David

[Wizz]

Hi Tuxy,

In the long run, 30 cases wont do the job. Among the contributors to this forum I suspect my cellar is relatively small at over 100 cases.

So much more I could say but I guess it gets unhelpful after a while,

Andrew

I have been between 30 and 40 cases for the last 20 years and for me that has been totally sufficient. At the moment my guess is I am at 35 cases..my cellar records are not what they used to be!!! None of them are "who cares wines", they are all quality and carefully chosen

At the end of the day it depends on how many wines from your cellar you intend to drink per week. One a week will give you a six year in cellar average at 300 wines which for me is about right with the type of wines I buy.

Obviously a few wines I keep a lot longer, but on average it has worked for me. I just now <> replace what I drink and the size of the cellar has varied little

Maybe it proves that although I am obsessed, I am not obsessed (and not a drunk and not a hoarder) lol

Also I am coming up to 50 years old, so I am decreasingly interested in wines that need 15-25 years cellaring for obvious reasons

I've been within cooee of 100 cases for a long time too. A big chunk of my cellar is German Riesling, and they demand age - hence the size.

I'm also losing interest in buying new, long ageing wines as I'm only a year or two in front of you

[Ian S]

Don’t horde your wine - taste and educate
Don’t buy in volume
We all purchased SA Shiraz in volume- DONT!

Some very good advice here on tasting and educating.
lots of comments against SA shiraz, but no-one has any recommendations on what buy instead.

I'd say if you enjoy it, then buy it. However there is much more out there and the Aussie critics have overly focused on Shiraz, and that from Barossa & McLaren Vale, so many who followed their advice have ended up overloaded with the stuff. Mine have been dwindling for a while now, down to 13 bottles today. As I fancy a bottle maybe once or twice a year, that's plenty.

What I would say, is explore the new wave of Aussie wines, eschewing the principle that 'ripe is better and ripest is best, carefully slathered in American oak and housed in a dreadnought bottle, all in the name of being impressive'. There are some remarkable wines emerging, and amusingly at alcohol levels often lower than the old world wine regions who used to mock Aussie wine as alcoholic fruit bombs. Australia will innovate.

In response to Craig's comment about ageing Shiraz / Syrah, I'd say buying around the fringes in Aussie can sometimes show the value. Craiglee jumps out for me as one that shone with age. Further afield a 1985 Robert Michel Cornas a decade ago was a genuine wow moment, and although variable, a half case of Domaine Florentin St. Joseph Clos de l’Arbalestrier had some great bottles amongst a couple of duds when I drank them in 2011/12. Isole e Olena's collezione di Marchi Syrah 'Eremo' is another that was stunning with age, and even in a supposedly poor vintage such as 1994 but also in btter years. Indeed avoiding over-ripeness appears to be a big factor for me in whether I like them with age. The riper examples can be a hoot when young, but have yet to excite me with cellar time, often losing the vibrancy that made them exciting.

I also need to correct the phrase above. It's wrong to say all roads lead to Burgundy. All roads lead away from Burgundy, but some people travel in the wrong direction

[felixp21]

Tips..... from an old codger who has been buying for 40 years, or near enough.

1. Buy Burgundy NOW. Spend your entire wine budget on it, nothing else, and spend more if you can in any way afford it. Why? Because in 15 years time, you will have wine that is worth 10-15x what you paid for it. In 2030, Rousseau Chambertin will cost $50k a bottle. Laugh now, save this post and let's have a look in 2030.... it may well cost more. The average Village wine will set you back $600 by then.

2. Buy Burgundy NOW. As someone living in China, where the rich are fabulously wealthy, far more than in any other country on Earth, I can promise you that you will NOT be able to afford it in another decade. Probably won't matter, because Australian importers will only get miniscule allocations anyway. The Chinese have really developed a taste for it, and it won't be long before they are buying almost all of it.

3. After you have spent the next five years buying Burgundy, you can stop.... by then, you will feel the prices have become absurd (but believe me, they will keep going up)

4. After five years, buy smaller amounts of wines from diverse regions, don't restrict yourself to two or three regions. If you don't want to keep your Burgundy, you can sell it at a very handsome profit.

5. In ten years, start to open your Burgundy, drink them, and sigh, as you think "ahhh, those were the days we could afford to buy this stuff"

[brodie]

I have been collecting/cellaring wine for about 2 years now. As a rookie wine collector I am interested in whether you have any tips on how to build a good collection that I will be able to enjoy in 5, 10, 20 and 30 years time?
I am 33 years of age, so I hopefully have many years to collect and drink what I collect.
Cheers, David

Hi David, I am 60 and starting cellaring wine in 1987. So I have been at for more than 30 years. Here are some thoughts on my journey and what I have learned.
First and foremost: Your tastes and preferences will change (a lot) over time. I have seen this just about everyone I have met who has been cellaring and drinking wine for an extended period of time. -> Diversify your cellar early.
Learn more about your preferences and expand your wine horizons away from Aust as fast as your budget allows. At your age you need to drink more widely and also try buying a few bottles at auction to see whether you actually like the taste of older wines. Auctions are a bit of a lottery as you have no idea of provenance and storage conditions. Otherwise try and find some friends with cellars to share older bottles with you.

Many (most) wines do not truly improve and become magical wines after 20 years of cellaring. Only a small select group of wines have a proven track record of actually getting more interesting, more complex and genuinely wonderful after extended bottle ageing. You mention time frames of 20-30 years in your note. I would focus on old world classics for these longer cellaring time frames honestly. There are a reasonable number of Aussie wines can hold this long but whether they actually improve and get better (vs merely being older and softer) is another matter entirely. My personal experience has been that I have not been wowed by that many old mature Aussies. Now there are exceptions out there obviously but this is how it has played out for me and I bought them on release and had them in temp controlled storage their entire life.

In my experience the best mature wines were wines that are not made with too much oak, are not too ripe, not too alcoholic and not too extracted. Balance and elegance and the key for me. I have had fantastic red bordeaux that were 80+ years old that were 11.5% to 12.5% alcohol and they were amazing. Mature red burg and mature nebbiolo are a joy to drink.

I started out on big Aussie reds like many others. I bought way too many Aussie reds and not nearly enough wines from other countries early on. I have not bought any Aussie reds for the cellar for something like 15 years now. Since the late 1990s I have moved steadily into old world classics starting with red bordeaux and Chateauneuf des Pape then moving to red Burg, Barolo, Nth Rhone Syrah, Brunello, German Rieslings, vintage Champagnes, white burgs and others.

These days my cellar is dominated by French wines (red burgs, red bdx, nth rhones, others) and then Italian reds and German Rieslings then Aussies and NZ wines. Pinot Noir is my favourite grape by a country mile, followed by Riesling and then Nebbiolo with Cab Sav and Syrah next. I find good high quality pinot noir goes with a wide range of foods and has a wonderful perfume and balance that never gets old (for me).

I would not try and buy wine as an investment, because your target volumes (30 cases max) is way too small. On that note I suspect that in 10 years time your target volume will be greater than 100 cases! Do the math like this: "I want to drink 100 bottles a year with an average bottle age of 10 years" this means you need a cellar of 1000 (83 cases hence my 100 case comment) bottles to sustain it. Just plug in your own numbers to see what you are realistically looking at.

Also try and buy in "3s" if you can. 3 bottles means you can try one early on and keep two for later. Singles are a pain in the arse especially if it is a trophy. You will go thru this "should I open the bottle now or should I keep it " debate with yourself.

Good luck, enjoy the journey.

[JamieBahrain]

Tips..... from an old codger who has been buying for 40 years, or near enough.

1. Buy Burgundy NOW. Spend your entire wine budget on it, nothing else, and spend more if you can in any way afford it. Why? Because in 15 years time, you will have wine that is worth 10-15x what you paid for it. In 2030, Rousseau Chambertin will cost $50k a bottle. Laugh now, save this post and let's have a look in 2030.... it may well cost more. The average Village wine will set you back $600 by then.

2. Buy Burgundy NOW. As someone living in China, where the rich are fabulously wealthy, far more than in any other country on Earth, I can promise you that you will NOT be able to afford it in another decade. Probably won't matter, because Australian importers will only get miniscule allocations anyway. The Chinese have really developed a taste for it, and it won't be long before they are buying almost all of it.

3. After you have spent the next five years buying Burgundy, you can stop.... by then, you will feel the prices have become absurd (but believe me, they will keep going up)

4. After five years, buy smaller amounts of wines from diverse regions, don't restrict yourself to two or three regions. If you don't want to keep your Burgundy, you can sell it at a very handsome profit.

5. In ten years, start to open your Burgundy, drink them, and sigh, as you think "ahhh, those were the days we could afford to buy this stuff"

Not everyone likes Burgundy!

I have a few friends who are Masters of Wines and I was quite shocked when sharing a bottle with them and they privately stated that they don't really enjoy Burgundy. I'm not much of a believer in the MW hype, more I believe its important for a newbee to understand, many will tell you where the Holy Grail is, but its pretty likely you will find it on your own journey elsewhere.

[Wizz]

Tips..... from an old codger who has been buying for 40 years, or near enough.

1. Buy Burgundy NOW. Spend your entire wine budget on it, nothing else, and spend more if you can in any way afford it. Why? Because in 15 years time, you will have wine that is worth 10-15x what you paid for it. In 2030, Rousseau Chambertin will cost $50k a bottle. Laugh now, save this post and let's have a look in 2030.... it may well cost more. The average Village wine will set you back $600 by then.

2. Buy Burgundy NOW. As someone living in China, where the rich are fabulously wealthy, far more than in any other country on Earth, I can promise you that you will NOT be able to afford it in another decade. Probably won't matter, because Australian importers will only get miniscule allocations anyway. The Chinese have really developed a taste for it, and it won't be long before they are buying almost all of it.

3. After you have spent the next five years buying Burgundy, you can stop.... by then, you will feel the prices have become absurd (but believe me, they will keep going up)

4. After five years, buy smaller amounts of wines from diverse regions, don't restrict yourself to two or three regions. If you don't want to keep your Burgundy, you can sell it at a very handsome profit.

5. In ten years, start to open your Burgundy, drink them, and sigh, as you think "ahhh, those were the days we could afford to buy this stuff"

Hey Felix did you buy Bitcoin too?