Clos-des-Papes tasting

[Dang]

Our club decided that it was time for a Chateauneuf-du-Pape tasting, so a vertical of Clos-des-Papes was organized. Here was the lineup: '00,'01,'03,'04,'05,'06,'07,'09. They were all blend with about 65% Grenache, and some Mourvedre, Syrah and whatever the winemaker decided. Unfortunately, the '03 was corked, two bottles were used for the tasting and both suffered the same fate! What is extraordinary was that one bottle was bought in Calgary and the other in the US. Must be a bad vintage for the cork! All received a score of either 94 and 95 from the Wine Advocate, except the '07 which got the 100.
Clos-des-Papes is situated on the gravelly part of the district and the nose was very distinct, primarily cherry and kirsch. Then a very Burgundian collection of forest floor, truffles, garrigue and notes of cured meat and spice. More or less of the above, depending on the vintage. With one exception, more about this later.
The palate again was medium-bodied, Burgundian, very balanced with soft tannin, but not too long at finish. The '05 had some blackberry (more Syrah than Mourvedre?) and was almost full-bodied. The '00 finish was more bitter, perhaps more Mourvedre in the blend.
The '07 might deserve the high rating due to its elegance and spiciness. But what got me was the strong nose of mocha and coffee, which other seemed not to notice because of the overwhelming kirsch (?). Anyway that nose was not mentioned in the original tasting critic. Was it me or the ageing process adds something extra when the vintage was perfect?
Another Chateauneuf-du-Pape, not the same region, mostly on the rocky side, was tasted yesterday from a wine store and certainly it gave a much different palate, austere and balanced but just a faint shot of kirsch. The terroir again!

[rooman]

I’ve got 3 or 4 of the early vintages. What was the over all reaction to each vintage. I’ve got a 04 on the tasting bench ready to go.

[Dang]

Hi Rooman,
The '04 was well received, garnered the second spot and was our cellarmaster's favorite. The fuller body must be the attraction.
Ready to go anyway. Cheers .....Dac.

[Mahmoud Ali]

Sounds like a very nice tasting Dang. Glad to see some appreciation for Chateauneuf-du-Papes and wish it would extend to some of the better grenaches from Australia.

Cheers ............. Mahmoud.

[Mark Carrington]

Interesting report.

[rooman]

Hi Rooman,
The '04 was well received, garnered the second spot and was our cellarmaster's favorite. The fuller body must be the attraction.
Ready to go anyway. Cheers .....Dac.

Thanks for that. I was thinking about suggesting an offline dinner in Sydney focused on Chateau NeufduPapes but people just don't seem to collect or drink it in Sydney.

Mark

[Mahmoud Ali]

Why not a grenache/grenache blend tasting, or do people not collect that either?

[rooman]

Why not a grenache/grenache blend tasting, or do people not collect that either?

I really wanted to see the difference in vintages across Southern Rhone for Ch NdP. There was some discussion recently on the difference in vintages across Ch NdP hence the thought.

[Mahmoud Ali]

I understood that, but since you said that "people just don't seem to to collect or drink it in Sydney" it was just a step away to suggest a grenache tasting and allude to my previous post implying that people also don't collect grenaches.

[Dang]

I concur, Rooman, about further tasting of CNP. There are many reasons for this, one being that that the AC of Chateauneuf was the first to establish strict regulations for its wine and grapes, since 1935. As a matter of interest, it does not allow flying saucers to land within its boundaries since 1954 (apparently that might mess up the flavour of the grapes). The other reasons pertain specifically to the three different terrains within the AC: (1) gravel, south of the AC and along the highway D68 that bisects the AC (eg Clos-des-Papes), (2) stone, on the west of D68 (eg Mont-Redon), and (3) sand and clay on stone (eg Beaucastel). The three terroirs should provide interesting comparison, maybe in blind tasting. Some white wines are also allowed, so that would make some interesting conversation. I do have a couple of '09 CNP in my cellar, so I will get to test them myself! By the way, you should also include Charles Melton's Nine Popes (haha) in your tasting. Cheers...Dac.

[rooman]

I concur, Rooman, about further tasting of CNP. There are many reasons for this, one being that that the AC of Chateauneuf was the first to establish strict regulations for its wine and grapes, since 1935. As a matter of interest, it does not allow flying saucers to land within its boundaries since 1954 (apparently that might mess up the flavour of the grapes). The other reasons pertain specifically to the three different terrains within the AC: (1) gravel, south of the AC and along the highway D68 that bisects the AC (eg Clos-des-Papes), (2) stone, on the west of D68 (eg Mont-Redon), and (3) sand and clay on stone (eg Beaucastel). The three terroirs should provide interesting comparison, maybe in blind tasting. Some white wines are also allowed, so that would make some interesting conversation. I do have a couple of '09 CNP in my cellar, so I will get to test them myself! By the way, you should also include Charles Melton's Nine Popes (haha) in your tasting. Cheers...Dac.

I’m curious to know what you think of Mont-Redon. I’ve got a bit of Clos des Papes and Beaucastel tucked away but no Mont-Redon. Do you rate it? The only bottle I tried years ago seemed very sweet but I seem to recall it might have been the 2003 vintage.

[Mahmoud Ali]

By the way, you should also include Charles Melton's Nine Popes (haha) in your tasting. Cheers...Dac.

And Bonny Doon's 'La Cigar Volant', a Chateauneuf blend fron Santa Cruz in California. The wine pays homage to Chateauneuf and their flying saucer law by having a flying saucer on the label. It has the UFO with a red beam shining down on a vineyard. While we refer to UFOs as flying saucers the French call them flying cigars, hence le cigar volant.

LeCigareVolant.jpg

Mahmoud.

[Dang]

Rooman, unfortunately my knowledge of CN is rather limited. Mont-Redon is the largest domain in the area and makes more than one red wine, as compared with Clos-des-Papes which only delivers one red and one white each year. Comparison with Domain Fortia or Beaurenard (both on gravels) would be more interesting, I think. Still I have my own '01 Mont-Olivet to test soon and maybe the Pere Anselme. My recently acquired '13 Clos-des-Papes is now put into my accelerated ageing system so I get to taste by 2020. Cheers...Dac.

[camw]

Mont-Redon makes some of the most consistently boring wines in Chateauneuf.

[Mahmoud Ali]

Still I have my own '01 Mont-Olivet to test soon and maybe the Pere Anselme.

I'd be inerested in your opinion on the '01 Clos du Mont-Olivet since I have a few botles of it.

Mahmoud.

[rooman]

Mont-Redon makes some of the most consistently boring wines in Chateauneuf.

Thanks Cam. I was fairly sure I was underwhelmed last time I tried them. Have you got much stock of other alternatives? I’d be happy to try a focused tasting.

Mark and

[camw]

Have you got much stock of other alternatives? I’d be happy to try a focused tasting.

Sadly not a region that I have much of sorry.

[rooman]

Have you got much stock of other alternatives? I’d be happy to try a focused tasting.

Sadly not a region that I have much of sorry.

Yeah it does seem to be a region out of favour. The UK guys appear to have a lot more and enough for offlines.

[Dang]

Still I have my own '01 Mont-Olivet to test soon and maybe the Pere Anselme.

I'd be inerested in your opinion on the '01 Clos du Mont-Olivet since I have a few botles of it.

Mahmoud.

During Easter I got to open my '01 Mont-Olivet. The perfect cork did not however jive with the colour of the wine, which was rather brickly. The nose gave a vague smell of red fruit and garrigue and spice, but no kirsch. Worse than that my wife pronounced that the wine is OTH. Did I have a bad bottle? So you better try yours soon.
I did have the other wine made by the family that owns MO, the Sabon family. My wine store gave me to taste the '09 Prestige. Lovely wine, well balanced, lots of red and black fruits and plenty of spice and garrigue. No real kirsch, possibly because the vineyards are on the rocky side of CNP. I myself found the wine a bit austere.
And finally, I walked into an old winestore and managed to find the more famous '07 Clos des Papes at a very reasonable price, not the inflated price on the 'net.
Cheers.

[rooman]

Hi Rooman,
The '04 was well received, garnered the second spot and was our cellarmaster's favorite. The fuller body must be the attraction.
Ready to go anyway. Cheers .....Dac.

Thanks for that. I was thinking about suggesting an offline dinner in Sydney focused on Chateau NeufduPapes but people just don't seem to collect or drink it in Sydney.

Mark

I ended up having the 04 on Friday for dinner with a kiwi friend who is a decent collector and consumer. No heat unless some Ch NdPs, the 04 was in fine form. Truffle and red gamey fruit. Excellent wine.

Mark

[Polymer]

There are plenty people that have Southern Rhone in Sydney a good amount of that will be CDP.....so I'm sure you can get something together...You can always add what Mahmoud suggested as well and put AU Grenache/blends to the mix if you want more people...

[swirler]

Still I have my own '01 Mont-Olivet to test soon and maybe the Pere Anselme.

I'd be inerested in your opinion on the '01 Clos du Mont-Olivet since I have a few botles of it.

Mahmoud.

During Easter I got to open my '01 Mont-Olivet. The perfect cork did not however jive with the colour of the wine, which was rather brickly. The nose gave a vague smell of red fruit and garrigue and spice, but no kirsch. Worse than that my wife pronounced that the wine is OTH. Did I have a bad bottle? So you better try yours soon.
I did have the other wine made by the family that owns MO, the Sabon family. My wine store gave me to taste the '09 Prestige. Lovely wine, well balanced, lots of red and black fruits and plenty of spice and garrigue. No real kirsch, possibly because the vineyards are on the rocky side of CNP. I myself found the wine a bit austere.
And finally, I walked into an old winestore and managed to find the more famous '07 Clos des Papes at a very reasonable price, not the inflated price on the 'net.
Cheers.

2007 CdP. Now there's a controversial wine/vintage combination!

[rooman]

There are plenty people that have Southern Rhone in Sydney a good amount of that will be CDP.....so I'm sure you can get something together...You can always add what Mahmoud suggested as well and put AU Grenache/blends to the mix if you want more people...

We seem to have endless discussions around burgundy and Barolo at present but it is ages since I saw anyone post on Rhone wines and any CDP in particular. I really enjoy them and would interested in what other people are seeing

[cuttlefish]

There are plenty people that have Southern Rhone in Sydney a good amount of that will be CDP.....so I'm sure you can get something together...You can always add what Mahmoud suggested as well and put AU Grenache/blends to the mix if you want more people...

We seem to have endless discussions around burgundy and Barolo at present but it is ages since I saw anyone post on Rhone wines and any CDP in particular. I really enjoy them and would interested in what other people are seeing

My recent experience with Rhône is very limited, but I do fancy the Guillaume Gonnet Cotes du Rhône Villages 2015. A great wine for sub-$20 !

[Polymer]

There are plenty people that have Southern Rhone in Sydney a good amount of that will be CDP.....so I'm sure you can get something together...You can always add what Mahmoud suggested as well and put AU Grenache/blends to the mix if you want more people...

We seem to have endless discussions around burgundy and Barolo at present but it is ages since I saw anyone post on Rhone wines and any CDP in particular. I really enjoy them and would interested in what other people are seeing

I agree...everytime we have Rhone we wonder why we don't have more...but plenty of Rhone being had at offlines...including CDP...although there have probably been more Northern Rhone vs. Southern in posts lately...

But start up an offline...even if you get 5 people that'll still be pretty nice...

[Mahmoud Ali]

Still I have my own '01 Mont-Olivet to test soon and maybe the Pere Anselme.

I'd be inerested in your opinion on the '01 Clos du Mont-Olivet since I have a few botles of it.

During Easter I got to open my '01 Mont-Olivet. The perfect cork did not however jive with the colour of the wine, which was rather brickly. The nose gave a vague smell of red fruit and garrigue and spice, but no kirsch. Worse than that my wife pronounced that the wine is OTH. Did I have a bad bottle? So you better try yours soon.

My problem with previous bottles of the '01 Mont-Olivet was not the colour (which was on the lighter side) but rather that it was getting a bit too gamey and stinky, making me suspect that it might have been heat-affected during shipment to Canada. This impression is in marked contrast to my impresssion of the wine when I first bought it. Cases of this wine were stacked in a store with a sale price sticker, for something like C$22, so I tried a bottle and liked it, finding it very pleasurable with a couple of hours in decanter. I told a friend of mine about the price reduction and she tried a bottle. She didn't like it and told me that sometimes wine agents will flog a wine if they think there is something wrong with the wine. I had not know of this practice. The back label of the wine had the imorters name and having met one of the sales agent a few weeks earlier, I decided to call him and ask about the wine. He told me there was nothing wrong with the wine but that they had three vintages of Mont-Olivet on hand, the '99, '01 and '04, and that the '07 was on its way. They felt that thay had too many vintages of the same wine and since they were almost out of the '99s they decided to reduce the wholesale price on the '01 and clear the decks as it were. So I went ahead and bought a case and, just for interest's sake wrote to Clos du Mont-Olivet.

I wrote:
Bonjour,

I am writing about your 2001 Clos du Mont-Olivet Chateauneuf-du-Pape. Recently I tried a bottle and liked it very much and recommended it to a few friends.

One friend liked it but thought the colour was too light, that this Chateauneuf was very advanced. Another thought it was too old, that it should have been drunk 3-4 years ago.

I would like to know what you think about this wine. Is it now fully mature, or will it age for a few more years.

My impression is that it requires a few hours in the decanter before drinking and that it will develop more complexity in 5-10 years. I have bought a case of this wine to see what will happen but I would appreciate your opinion.

Merci,

Mahmoud Ali

PS: I still have a bottle of 1985 Mont-Olivet Chateauneuf-du-Pape and must consider when to open it. As you may guess I like my wines very mature.

This is the answer I got:

"2001 is my first vintage as the winemaker.
It's a very good vintage.
Our 2001 is very close to a Burgundy. The color is light but you don't drink color! What's the problem if the wine is not diluted and shows complexity.
As many Châteauneuf-su-Pape I think that this wine has reached his higher quality "plateau" and it will develop slowly for 10 to 20 years.
I like the balance of this wine. It's not tannins or a big concentration which are allowing the wine to age but the balance.

You can drink your 1985. It's also a very good vintage. The wine can age a few more years but it is quite mature now.

enjoy your tasting!
Kind regards.
Thierry Sabon"

That was in 2011, so the wine was already a decade old and it made sense that it was into its "plateau" and likely to improve. Certainly the need for a couple of hours in decanter suggested the wine had some years ahead of it but a few years on I started to note higher incidences of gaminess that bordered on a barnyard stink that was verging on unpleasant. That was when I started to supect that perhaps there was a hidden problem and that my friend was correct after all. I still have a few remaining bottles of the '01 and of course the '85 which I should be thinking of opening.

Mahmoud.

[FredericoWines]

Coincidentally I opened an '03 last night. It was fabulous. Still youthful with lots of red fruits and blueberry nose. Oak and tannins were still dominant but not overpowering the fresh fruits. Maybe I just decanted it for one hour.

I'll decant for 2-3 hrs before consuming next time, or wait for one or two years to open next.