michel wrote:The whites were fresh & exciting
I miss good fresh old white burgs
He drinks genuine gear occasionally with JH & but is in Australia’s most hardcore tasting group.
They had Woodley Treasure Chest wines
Maurice O’Shea gear
Beautiful lables
Thread drift sorry
Yeah good aged white burg is becoming an oxymoron sadly.
Ah the Monday Table eh... hardcore indeed. (We're going to give them some competition tomorrow night though!)
Yep the Monday table
You better post some Tiger!
And photographs
Dragzworthy wrote:
I’m waiting to have my Domaine Perdrix Vosne Romanee Village 2007. Hope it’s something similar to this. Really only just dipping my toe into Burgundy..
2007 generally not a vintage for the long term. I wouldn't wait any longer. Enjoy the journey!
I would be surprised if this was dead...although I've not had any Perdrix...
10-11 years from vintage is really not that long...it might not be at its peak..but if you like aged characters on a wine, this will go for much longer than that before being dead. Of course if you still want the fruit to be primary, then yeah, it probably isn't there for this particular wine...
Perhaps just corked. It was musty and had that wet rag nastiness going. I like tertiary flavours but this was beyond that like something from an Indiana Jones tomb
Polymer wrote:I would be surprised if this was dead...although I've not had any Perdrix...
10-11 years from vintage is really not that long...it might not be at its peak..but if you like aged characters on a wine, this will go for much longer than that before being dead. Of course if you still want the fruit to be primary, then yeah, it probably isn't there for this particular wine...
I don't have the depth of experience as many on this forum, but in the lesser vintages I find that Village level wines generally don't go the distance. I love aged characters on a wine, but from my rather limited exposure, 2007 Burgs have matured surprisingly quickly. They don't have the stuffing for prolonged ageing, more so at the Village level.
Polymer wrote:I would be surprised if this was dead...although I've not had any Perdrix...
10-11 years from vintage is really not that long...it might not be at its peak..but if you like aged characters on a wine, this will go for much longer than that before being dead. Of course if you still want the fruit to be primary, then yeah, it probably isn't there for this particular wine...
I don't have the depth of experience as many on this forum, but in the lesser vintages I find that Village level wines generally don't go the distance. I love aged characters on a wine, but from my rather limited exposure, 2007 Burgs have matured surprisingly quickly. They don't have the stuffing for prolonged ageing, more so at the Village level.
On Wednesday night I had a couple of 07 Fourrier Gevrey Chambertin’s
A Village and a Les Goulots Premier cru, both drinking well with bright red fruit and still plenty of time on their side.
I actually preferred the Village wine and picked it as the premier cru in the bracket.
It probably goes back to that saying it’s about the producer not the vintage.
Polymer wrote:I would be surprised if this was dead...although I've not had any Perdrix...
10-11 years from vintage is really not that long...it might not be at its peak..but if you like aged characters on a wine, this will go for much longer than that before being dead. Of course if you still want the fruit to be primary, then yeah, it probably isn't there for this particular wine...
I don't have the depth of experience as many on this forum, but in the lesser vintages I find that Village level wines generally don't go the distance. I love aged characters on a wine, but from my rather limited exposure, 2007 Burgs have matured surprisingly quickly. They don't have the stuffing for prolonged ageing, more so at the Village level.
What is "the distance" though? Is it going to reach it's peak in 20-30 years? Probably not....10-11 years from vintage should it be dead? I don't think so..but that'll depend on what you mean by that....
It is definitely a good time to be drinking 2007s (and has been for awhile)...For that producer it could very well be past its best, etc, etc...I'm not even saying the wine is showing well or ever did...
Polymer wrote:I would be surprised if this was dead...although I've not had any Perdrix...
10-11 years from vintage is really not that long...it might not be at its peak..but if you like aged characters on a wine, this will go for much longer than that before being dead. Of course if you still want the fruit to be primary, then yeah, it probably isn't there for this particular wine...
I don't have the depth of experience as many on this forum, but in the lesser vintages I find that Village level wines generally don't go the distance. I love aged characters on a wine, but from my rather limited exposure, 2007 Burgs have matured surprisingly quickly. They don't have the stuffing for prolonged ageing, more so at the Village level.
Polymer wrote:I would be surprised if this was dead...although I've not had any Perdrix...
10-11 years from vintage is really not that long...it might not be at its peak..but if you like aged characters on a wine, this will go for much longer than that before being dead. Of course if you still want the fruit to be primary, then yeah, it probably isn't there for this particular wine...
I don't have the depth of experience as many on this forum, but in the lesser vintages I find that Village level wines generally don't go the distance. I love aged characters on a wine, but from my rather limited exposure, 2007 Burgs have matured surprisingly quickly. They don't have the stuffing for prolonged ageing, more so at the Village level.
On Wednesday night I had a couple of 07 Fourrier Gevrey Chambertin’s
A Village and a Les Goulots Premier cru, both drinking well with bright red fruit and still plenty of time on their side.
I actually preferred the Village wine and picked it as the premier cru in the bracket.
It probably goes back to that saying it’s about the producer not the vintage.
Cheers Con.
You did well with Fourrier 2007 in Australia
I allege they were cooked in transit
Two friends had allegedly the same experience
I will NEVER purchase Fourrier EVER again
I put my 2007 in the recycling bin
In my heart of hearts I couldn’t auction them
TiggerK wrote:Yeah good aged white burg is becoming an oxymoron sadly.
Ah the Monday Table eh... hardcore indeed. (We're going to give them some competition tomorrow night though!)
Yep the Monday table
You better post some Tiger!
And photographs
Just a quick teaser pic as I'll save the comments for Dave vino's forthcoming writeup thread.
TiggerK wrote:Yeah good aged white burg is becoming an oxymoron sadly.
Ah the Monday Table eh... hardcore indeed. (We're going to give them some competition tomorrow night though!)
Yep the Monday table
You better post some Tiger!
And photographs
Just a quick teaser pic as I'll save the comments for Dave vino's forthcoming writeup thread.
Quick notes on some cheapies we looked at the other night:
2010 Fourrier Gevrey Chambertin VV
Still quite primary. Has lots of morello cherries, earth, wildflowers, very minerally. VG for it's level. 90pts
2001 Louis Jadot Corton Greves GC
Nothing spectacular, usually the case with this vineyard and producer, but serviceable enough. 89pts
2005 Jean et Louis Trapet Gevrey Chambertin Ostrea
Quite a contrast to the Fourrier, big, tannic and closed wine mainly black fruits. Opened up a little after 5-6 hours, but this needs another decade (as do 90% of the 2005's!!!) Frustrating vintage, bit like waiting for those bloody 99's grrr. 89pts
2009 Marchand et Burch Nuits St Georges
Lots of Nuits tomato action, again a black fruited wine. Rich and round, pleasant but simple. 87pts
2002 Sylvain Cathiard Vosne Romanee
Fully mature wine, lots of forest floor, mature red fruits, Vosne spice and a touch of barnyard. A slightly clipped, metallic finish. Like many of the 2002 lesser wines from the Nuits, this has evolved quite quickly. Drink up. Never a value player, this guy. 87pts
Nice wines to ease back into Aus, they all went down with no complaints or fuss, and provided a nice complement to a hearty western meal!!!
Looks like a tasting you will NEVER forget
Savour the moment
I hope you are Zaltoing it with burgundy glasses
If not byo your own
I always do!
You bring glassware to restaurants/outside venues? This is taking it to another level! Impressed... I’m too hesitant to offend so I suffer uncomfortably
Looks like a tasting you will NEVER forget
Savour the moment
I hope you are Zaltoing it with burgundy glasses
If not byo your own
I always do!
You bring glassware to restaurants/outside venues? This is taking it to another level! Impressed... I’m too hesitant to offend so I suffer uncomfortably
I have sommeliers approach me and complement the Zalto
michel wrote:
Looks like a tasting you will NEVER forget
Savour the moment
I hope you are Zaltoing it with burgundy glasses
If not byo your own
I always do!
You bring glassware to restaurants/outside venues? This is taking it to another level! Impressed... I’m too hesitant to offend so I suffer uncomfortably
I have sommeliers approach me and complement the Zalto
... but have you tried Gabriel Glas? Another step up IMO... perhaps controversial
Dragzworthy wrote:
You bring glassware to restaurants/outside venues? This is taking it to another level! Impressed... I’m too hesitant to offend so I suffer uncomfortably
I have sommeliers approach me and complement the Zalto
... but have you tried Gabriel Glas? Another step up IMO... perhaps controversial
Dragzworthy wrote:Controversial in that many will not look beyond the mighty Zalto... but I do prefer the Gabriel Glas, takes it to yet another level
For me it’s Riesel -> Zwiesel -> Zalto -> Gabriel Glas
I like Gabriel Glas....but it wasn't better than a Zalto, for me anyways..the shape is fine..but at the same time missing something...I think for higher alcohol reds it showed slightly better although to be fair, I've only tried them a handful of times (Mainly the standard and Gold only once).
I can easily see why people would like them though..the gold is very similar to Zaltos...even lighter....Good overall shape although I wish it was a bit deeper..
1999 Rousseau Chambertin
Peacock tail meet earthy ethereal transparency
Reminiscent of the 93
I reckon at about 20 years Rousseau Chambertin starts giving back generously
Dragzworthy wrote:
You bring glassware to restaurants/outside venues? This is taking it to another level! Impressed... I’m too hesitant to offend so I suffer uncomfortably
I have sommeliers approach me and complement the Zalto
... but have you tried Gabriel Glas? Another step up IMO... perhaps controversial
I have notes somewhere from our local glass off - if I can find them I'l post in a separate thread. I've seen Gabriel Glas but not used them, but in the original european glassware tasting that we modelled ours on, I dont recall Gabriel Glas getting a place in any of the categories with Zalto Schott Zwiesel Stolzle and Riedel generally taking the chocolates.
The great glassware tasteoff – 26 April 2014
It’s often talked about – the difference glassware makes to a wine. Riedel have made a business out of that premise, and for a long time have reigned supreme on the back of good glassware and better marketing.
There are pretenders. But are they any good?
A group of 6 set up this tasting in Brisbane to explore this question. To keep things manageable, the focus of the day was burgundy shaped glassware, tested out by two chardonnays and two pinot noirs, one each from France and Australia.
The Five Glasses:
Zalto DankArt Burgundy
Zwiesel “The First” burgundy
Stolzle – not sure which glass this was
Riedel Sommelier
Riedel Vium
The Four Wines:
2009 Leeuwin Estate Art Series Chardonnay
2011 Etienne Sauzet Puligny Montrachet
2010 Curly Flat Pinot Noir
2011 Dubreil Fontaine Pernand Vergelesses Ile de Vergelesses
The process:
6 tasters, 5 glasses each. To get a 75 ml pour each from two bottles of each wine, only three glasses were filled initially, and the wines were then cycled through the last two glasses.
Wines tasted blind – the identity of the four wines above were only revealed afterwards.
Wines were scored out of 100, and scores and impressions fo the wines and glasses only discussed after the two whites and then after the two reds were tasted and scored.
The outcomes:
Rather than give an endless blow by blow account, here are the key findings of what turned out to be a fascinating exercise.
Glassware makes a material difference to both nose and front palate.
Its not as simple as one glass being universally better than another – and quality has a subjective element.
However – the Zalto and Zwiesel glasses outperformed the other three, almost universally.
The better wines showed the most marked difference between glasses. The less impressive wines (the Dubreil Fontaine in this case) showed less difference.
The Stolzle was a mystery – I couldn’t find it in their catalog, and it was a thicker glass with a very narrow rim diameter, which seemed to significantly mute the nose on every wine.
The Riedel Sommelier is an enormous glass, at over a litre. For a 75ml pour it was too big to sensibly show any meaningful nose – BUT – when more wine was added it improved dramatically.
The Riedel Vinum, as a workhorse glass, stood up reasonably well, but doesn’t give as focused a presentation of the wines as the Zalto or Zwiesel.
And in my opinion:
Between the Zalto and Zwiesel, the Zwiesel gave a more vibrant, lifted presentation.
In the case of the Leeuwin Chardonnay, it made the wine seem volatile.
The Zalto gave a more even, balanced presentation which could be perceived as quieter. Many tasters commented the Zalto presented the components of the wine more clearly.
For me – the Zwiesel nudged the Zalto overall, but I was alone in this view, everyone else had the Zalto as a clear winner.
Certainly the Zalto is a dramatic glass to hold, swirl and drink from, being so finely made and angularly shaped
The wines:
The 09 LEAS looked great, and needed some airtime to show its best in its mealy, slightly buxom ripe peach way.
The 11 Sauzet was cashew nougat and cream, with a laserlike lemon acid line cutting right through its middle.
The Curly Flat was lovely. Great fruit, pinot sap, some stalk, spice. Very enjoyable wine
The Dubreil Fontaine was jangly and not together, red cordial, and a bit all over the place.
Then over a late lunch:
09 Mongeard Mugneret Echezeaux: Likey likey.
99 Faively Mazis Chambertin – something not right with this bottle – is this still yet to come around, or maybe this one has seen some heat in a past life?
08 Anne Gros Richebourg – something not quite right with this wine, so our generous host opened:
11 Anne Gros Richebourg – O.M.G. How Pinot can be. Should be.
09 ? ? Cabernet Sauvignon (Napa Valley): In the plush opulent style, lovely for it.
10 Kusuda Syrah: Smashing wine.
06 Domenico Clerico Aeroplan Barolo. Not everyone wants or gets Barolo tannins, and this foxed a few tasters. Loved it though, would have preferred to see it straight after the burgs.
Thanks for posting this. We originally bought iso glasses for tasting, then moved onto Riedels. As the Riedels slowly dwindle in number, I must admit I have my eye on Zalto universals as the next iteration.
2006 Jacques Cacheaux Vosne Romanee 1er Cru Suchots
been drinking a lot of excellent 06's lately, a vintage that has shown well at such a young age. However, this particular bottle perhaps best demonstrates the problems some had in the hot and ripe year.
not a lot of Burgundy finesse here, this is a big, bruising wine that is, actually, quite hard to pick as a Pinot Noir, and feels more akin to something from the Northern Rhone. Big, black fruits, rich and round, a little heat on the finish. Good length, decent complexity. Perhaps this might benefit from another five years in the cellar, but it will never have the spice and interest of a great, or even good, Vosne. If you like California Pinot, I suspect you will love this, but not for me. 88pts drink: now-2030.
Birthday tonight and my friends sent me this. 2010 Romanee Conti En magnum en photo. I have touched a bottle of RC before and have drunk a La Tache and a few of the ‘minor’ wines..never seen or tasted the holey grail though...not sure they were being kind or cruel...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
This is my church, this is where I heal my hurts. For tonight, God is the Auswine Wine Forum
2006 Fourrier Cherbaudes 1er. I couldn’t believe how dark and brooding this wine was. Full and rich. Slightly sweet but also with dark fruits, the hint of secondary characteristics - forest floor - also with so much definition and interest. One of the best pinots I have ever had, certainly the best Fourrier.
1998 Rousseau Chambertin Clos de Beze
Very pretty red fruits, as usual the purity is exemplary.
Lacks the drive and energy of great vintages, the ethereal qualities seen in years such as 05 and 10 are simply absent.
A good wine, drinking at peak IMO, but the value would have to be a serious question.
90 pts, drink now-2030
good man, tough though it is
