Impressions of the Hunter Valley - what happened here?

[stab]

First post so be gentle.

Me: in the Hunter. SA born and bred - know Barossa, Mclaren, Clare & Coonawarra - Adelaide Hills etc like the back of my hand. Last went to the Hunter Valley 20 years ago when I only knew a little about wine but was keen to learn.

I'm into regional: produce, psyche, the local flavour and locally produced varieties. I want to know what "makes the place tick" when I go a region.

Back in the Hunter for a visit - 2015 Halliday in hand with memories from 20 years ago. Semillion seems the go even though my memory is of the southern oaked style so I'm up to learn something knew from the region...

One day of tasting and I'm floored: "what the hell happened here??!"
1) Ciders, chocolates, ferris wheels -
2) Many corporate "one stop shop" cellar doors with said ciders outlets, chocolate outlets, desert bars (closed after 3pm!)
3) An Irish Pub feedlot
4) $10 tasting fees for $20 wines Some places $10 for whites and then $10 for the Reds! (I don't mean to be stingy - I'm used to paying $5 for an ultra premium wine tasting at Rockfords or Wynns - but WTF? I even got an ear bashing when I politely commented on this at Peterson House)

I spoke to the manager/family member at Mistletoe who filled me in and seemed quite sad. It really seems like a big chunk of the region has been sold off to big corporate businesses selling a day trip to OS tourists who know nothing about wine and offering "one stop locations" for them.

Feeling a bit disillusioned.
Haven't been back to Tyrrell's Wines yet.

Any comments or advice welcomed!

[TiggerK]

1) Go to Tyrrell's, although the tourist vibe can be strong there as well, it does have heart and soul. Mount Pleasant as well, amongst others.
2) Avoid the tourist traps, mainly around the Tempus Two crap-plex, although Meerea Park has some decent wines, albeit with a touch of price shock.
3) Don't go to the Irish Pub (but it has been there a long time so fair play to it)
4) Accept that it's one of Australia's most popular Tourist Regions, so places are trying to maximise their revenue from tasters, drinkers, kids & drivers!

Can't say I've ever struck a tasting fee! Well never been charged one anyway, once they see you're actually interested in wine, it's generally waived.

[stab]

Thanks man. Will check em out.
I've now been trying to get input from some local producers as to where to go to avoid the tourist traps and get local quality small-operation-quality wine making.
I'd kind of hoped (in vain) that the region hadn't been spoilt by the tourist thing - but I guess being in such close proximity to Sydney it was inevitable. Its no wonder the local voices in the Barossa like Maggie Beer have been such strong opponents to "generic tourism".
Sigh..

[Polymer]

Definitely do more research before going back to the Hunter...Lots of great places to go, lots of big tourist traps (how did you end up at Peterson House???) that you'll just want to avoid in general. Most places shouldn't have a tasting fee (although it has been a couple of years for me).

Tyrrells...If you're not a private bin member, you'll need to talk your way into trying some of the other wines....In general, especially when it is crowded on the weekend, it is almost a waste of time to go there...crowded and most of the wines that are worth trying are not available to be tried...go during the week when it is less crowded for a much better experience...

[dingozegan]

Yep.

Even sadder are the stylistic changes, like Hunter Shiraz trying to be Barossa Shiraz.

And perhaps worse, often more than half the wines at the cellar doors there aren't even made from Hunter fruit!

But there are exceptions... go to Chateau Francois if you want the ultimate traditional Hunter experience (wine style as well as cellar door), or Lake's Folly, or Tyrrells (if you are happy to talk wine geek at cellar doors)... the Small Winemakers Centre in Pokolbin might be a little touristy but has some more interesting wines...

Or you could go to Broke Fordwich!

[Polymer]

Or none from Hunter fruit...or one..like Piggs Peake....although I do take out of towners there because they seem to love it...

Same reason why so many Hunter places have tried to make a Barossa like Shiraz..it just appeals more to general tourists..

But you can definitely still find great Hunter stuff there.. just might require a bit of research ahead of time..

[cuttlefish]

Chateau Francois, but call first. They were fantastically generous with their time when we visited in November, but things look tough there at the moment. They’re not able to harvest, and things look like they’re drawing to a close, quite possibly. It’s both a beautiful and sad cellar-door experience. The shiraz and semillon are superb.

[Polymer]

Hopefully they stay around for a bit...

But if not hopefully whomever takes it over keeps with the more traditional Hunter style...like maybe dingozegan needs to look into this...Or maybe a GM joint venture..lol..

[sjw_11]

years ago I picked up a half dozen each of the Writer's Block Semillon 2006 and 2011 on the strength (forgive me forumites) of a ridiculous JH review... to be honest if there is two things that man really knows it is Hunter Semillon and the Yarra... and it was an excellent price

I opened one of the 2006 back in 2013 and it was tremendous... haven't yet opened any of the remainder, I guess I will put one on the list to look at next time I am in Adelaide.

I don't think the estate exits anymore, very sad.

In the Hunter I used to go to Lakes Folly, Meerea Park, Gundog, Brokenwood, Capercaillie, and not to forget McLeish - great semillons.
I actually never visited Tyrrell's though I am a private bin member these days, so I would rate them highly as well.

[felixp21]

2009 De Iuliis Shiraz Steven Vineyard
lovely, restrained HV shiraz. Nice length and focus, pretty much at peak (but will hold another 10 years) 91pts

2009 Alter Ego de Palmer
awesome second wine from Palmer in a superb vintage for the Margaux commune. Massive length, complex flavours of cassis, dark berries, anise, earth and plum. Easily recognised as a Margaux. Alter Ego has been stellar in good Margaux vintages, and this is no exception. 93pts

1996 Penfolds Grange Shiraz
massive wine, but full of coconut and dill, liquorice plums and earth. Wonderful length. Great if you like the style, this is in need of another decade in a cool cellar. 93pts

[The Hunter]

Interesting comments in this post but will bite my tongue. Some suggestions

Gundog
Usher Tinkler
Tyrrell
My Pleasant
Vinden
Margan
Krinklewood
De Iulius
Keith Tulloch
Andrew Thomas
Lakes Folly
First Creek

Just as examples who don’t have huge/commercial sites and most if not all don’t charge !

[TiggerK]

Don't bite your tongue Hunter, tell us your opinion!! I love the Hunter Valley (mostly), so curious as to what 'interesting comments' you mean? Always keen to talk Hunter with the Hunter!

[stab]

...latest update...
Tyrells - awesome!
- no one around so got to taste all the super premium and museum release wines. Beautifully crafted. Lovely traditional cellar door is just like i recalled. Bought more than I need. THIS is the HV I remember!

[The Hunter]

Well it’s disappointing that people take a negative view on a region when only going to the tourist traps ! Lots a great cellar doors, restaurants and views (try Audrey Wilkinson - views, Bistro Molines - views and food, Muse and Muse Kitchen- food as examples).
Regarding wines/styles, Personally I could say that all BV and MV reds are overblown alcohol bombs (but I know that’s not the case as there are more and more medium bodied, read more traditional styles now being made, but still in my view too many fruit and oak bombs)! Also whilst there have been attempts over the years for some makers to try and make much bigger styles then they should attempt in the Hunter, I firmly believe that most makers (and I know many personally) have gone back in time and picking fruit at the right time (not leaving them hang too long and increase sugar and alcohol levels) and shorter term aging in older and/or larger vessels). What we are seeing is the more elegant earthy and herb driven, dare I say “Hunter Burgundy” styles of yesteryear! Give the big places a miss (outside of Mt P and Tyrrell, which in the scheme of things are not huge for cellar doors) and try some of the smaller passionate makers who are now doing more and more single vineyard stuff !

[tarija]

Mount Pleasant - is there a secret handshake here?

The two times I've got, they've just had the low end stuff on tasting. Elizabeth, Philip, maybe one of the $40 wines. None of the high end wines, and they treat the O'Shea like it is Petrus...no way would it be available for tasting.

Have been very disappointing visits. Brokenwood also a bit lousy, although I hear there is a secret room/club where the better stuff can be tasted...

Tyrrell's, on the other hand - easily the best CD in the Hunter, many visits over. And this was before I even joined as a Private Bin member as well.

[dingozegan]

The stylistic change and non-Hunter fruit isn't just the tourist traps, it's quite widespread. (Although I recognise it's perhaps more of an issue in the Pokolbin/Lovedale area - well, that's considered the traditional Hunter, right? - which is also why I suggested Broke-Fordwich.)

For example, traditional Hunter producer, Petersons, has a Mount View cellar door that has many wines made from non-Hunter fruit. This is particularly interesting, because they also have cellar doors in Mudgee and Armidale (and another one on Broke Road)!

Tyrrells' reds are more traditionally structured, but they're quite oaky these days... De Iuliis' Steven Vineyard Shiraz is typically bigger than traditional Hunter Shiraz - I think it's the vineyard that keeps it traditional!... Stuff like the Gundog Hunter's Shiraz hits that traditional structure better (though despite the winemaker stating it "never really exceeding 14% alcohol" it certainly has of late, and is heavier than traditional Hunter Shiraz because of it). It's almost like much of the Hunter has lost faith in itself (or it's traditional self), which is sad because it's a great wine region.

In contrast, Chateau Francois is full-on traditional, as I said earlier. Sparkling Pinot Noir that's funky/Brett-kissed, now that is Old School! The Shiraz and Semillon are traditionally styled too. I second the reccomendations for Krinklewood (one reason I reccomendation Broke generally - and their French-inflected cellar door is very nice). Glenguin is worth a mention too (their Petit Verdot in particular) - quite a nice cellar door experience can be had there.........

But if not hopefully whomever takes it over keeps with the more traditional Hunter style...like maybe dingozegan needs to look into this...Or maybe a GM joint venture..lol..

Haha, believe me, it's crossed my mind (and also been mentioned to me) numerous times.

[Michael R]

But if not hopefully whomever takes it over keeps with the more traditional Hunter style...like maybe dingozegan needs to look into this...Or maybe a GM joint venture..lol..

Haha, believe me, it's crossed my mind (and also been mentioned to me) numerous times.

In!

[sjw_11]

Do I sense an Auswine forum crowd funded winery venture?? What a great idea...

[DaveS]

I’m from Perth and visited Hunter for the first time a week or so ago. Was quite happy with it all.
First Creek
No tasting charge, some of the best wines we tried in the Hunter. Very elegant style. Great staff.

Tyrrells
A bit disappointing. Mostly cheap wines on offer. $10 for a premium tasting of Vat47 Chard, vat 8 and a sem I can’t recall now. Young staff regurgitating memorised lines.

Mount Pleasant
Only wines of note to taste from the list were Rosehill and Mountain C but I must have given the secret handshake as the lady offered me a few other Mountain wines which made it worth while going. Busy but staff were knowledgeable.

Winemakers centre
Went here to try Thomas and Silkwood and was quite pleased although lots of good wines missing. $10 for 8 tastings.

De iuliis
Very good. No tasting fee I think they had pretty much everything to taste. Knowledable staff.

All in all a nice experience. I don’t mind paying tasting fees if they have their full range out. Understand if they have sold out of certain wines.

[stab]

Well it’s disappointing that people take a negative view on a region when only going to the tourist traps !

My point was there were so many tourist traps in HV - that whole HV Gardens thing on Broke Rd, and then these "multiple" complexes with a few faux cellar doors, chocolates, average restaurant, cider shop etc all in the one building. Being from SA I have never seen this sort of thing before on this scale and it feels "fake" and "corporate" - diminishes the charm/history of the region. I went to the region with Halliday in hand - and some of the high-rated wines were in these complexes so its kind of hard to completely avoid them if you actually want to taste the wine!

[dave vino]

I don't think they are tourist traps per se. They are aimed at those who are visiting the region who are not diehard wine lovers, the long suffering partner dragged up there for the day would probably look forward to the Cheese shop, Chocolate Shop, Liqueurs etc. Having a break from all the wineries and visiting the Gardens etc The coaches full of tourists, probably want to try a few wines and then move on to other things.

The only real 'tourist trap' in my mind as far as wineries go would be the Tempus Two (Battlestar Galactica) setup. There are always going to be the ones that cater for the coach tours (Petersens, Brokenwood, Hope Estate etc).

It is no worse than the Penfolds CD, Maggie Beer store, Peter Lehmann, Wolf Blass et al. All fairly commercialised appealing to the masses type places. Not everyone is a wine tragic and they go more for the experience and a nice day out.