The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

[JamieBahrain]

That's fair pricing . Leave for 5 years.

[FredericoWines]

That's fair pricing . Leave for 5 years.

How good is this wine, compares to other big names (e.g. Aldo Conterno, Bruno Giacosa,Vietti etc) ?

[JamieBahrain]

It's a better introduction to single vineyard Barolo than all of the above based on price . Interest in this producer is on a considerable upswing .

It probably won't be 80USD in a few years if cellar door is anything to go by.

I collect wines from this region for pleasure. I have this wine in my cellar over a number of vintages .

[Ian S]

That's fair pricing . Leave for 5 years.

How good is this wine, compares to other big names (e.g. Aldo Conterno, Bruno Giacosa,Vietti etc) ?

In a way, I'll echo Jamie's comments. The really big names almost certainly carry a premium that is very high. If money is no object then there's no problem with buying those wines, but for me the sweet spot of value comes a lot cheaper than those.

[Ian S]

Yesterday evening (when visiting friends, so only basic observations), a 1999 Produttori del Barbaresco Pora that still retained some tannic grip, but was showing hints of oxidation. Not enough to put me off, but a little surprising / concerning. For those very averse to oxidation, then worth opening a bottle sooner rather than later if you have some.

Followed by a 2011 Travaglini Gattinara Riserva, which was clearly much younger in profile, but as typical with Travaglini, quite approachable in youth.

[tarija]

That's fair pricing . Leave for 5 years.

How good is this wine, compares to other big names (e.g. Aldo Conterno, Bruno Giacosa,Vietti etc) ?

The cru bottlings from the wineries you mentioned are 3-10x more expensive...but not necessarily "better". 2012 a pleasant vintage for earlier consumption, and this wine was very well-regarded by the pros.

[tarija]

Yesterday evening (when visiting friends, so only basic observations), a 1999 Produttori del Barbaresco Pora that still retained some tannic grip, but was showing hints of oxidation. Not enough to put me off, but a little surprising / concerning. For those very averse to oxidation, then worth opening a bottle sooner rather than later if you have some.

Thanks for the note Ian. For context, what is the provenance of your bottle?

[Ian S]

Yesterday evening (when visiting friends, so only basic observations), a 1999 Produttori del Barbaresco Pora that still retained some tannic grip, but was showing hints of oxidation. Not enough to put me off, but a little surprising / concerning. For those very averse to oxidation, then worth opening a bottle sooner rather than later if you have some.

Thanks for the note Ian. For context, what is the provenance of your bottle?

Bought from Valvona and Crolla (Edinburgh, Scotland) back in 2006, so whilst it might have sat on their shelves, I doubt it's ever got warm.

Since purchase, a couple of years in dark, coolish passive storage and since then in a wine fridge.

I'll also add that this was drunk from ~ tulip shaped glasses that I'm not familiar with, so potentially that's quite a big impact on perception. The wine was opened, decanted and would have been finished inside an hour, so no testing of the theory of extended period of opening.

[winetastic]

Opened a magnum of Giuseppe Cortese Barbaresco Rabaja Riserva 2004 over the weekend.

Perhaps not the most complex Barbaresco I have ever tried, but certainly one of the more gluggable. Still relatively youthful, however no problems at all dealing with the tannins at this stage. Quite fruit forward, yet showing modest secondary development. If you have any 750ml bottles, might be worth a peek.

9.5/10, would drink again.

[winetastic]

Now that we are getting 2016 Langhe Nebbiolo here in Australia, some thoughts on the vintage based on barrel samples and the Benevelli Langhe Nebbiolo...

Early days I know, however for my tastes this is the finest vintage for Nebbiolo in Barolo that I have had the opportunity to try. The wines appear to have a holy trinity of balance, freshness and complexity - feels like the love child of 2012 Barbaresco and 2010 Barolo.

Anyone else have some early-days musings and perhaps some bold predictions?

[Ozzie W]

Now that we are getting 2016 Langhe Nebbiolo here in Australia, some thoughts on the vintage based on barrel samples and the Benevelli Langhe Nebbiolo...

Early days I know, however for my tastes this is the finest vintage for Nebbiolo in Barolo that I have had the opportunity to try. The wines appear to have a holy trinity of balance, freshness and complexity - feels like the love child of 2012 Barbaresco and 2010 Barolo.

Anyone else have some early-days musings and perhaps some bold predictions?

I've read about comparisons between 2016 and the legendary 1964 vintage.

My prediction is that I'll run out of room in my cellar.

[winetastic]

My prediction is that I'll run out of room in my cellar.

Already considering a Jamie approach to ordering Olek...

[JamieBahrain]

We will have great nebbiolo offlines in 20 years +

Hang in there gents !

[JamieBahrain]

I have a had a few bottles of a recently delivered case of the Produttori del Barbaresco 2014. Showing rich, spicy aromatics and a classic structure with an austerity bracketed with the calcerous minerality of the area. Just quaffing them at the moment but will have a good look when they've completely settled from the voyage.

I'm fascinated by the high rating from WA. I find American critics impatient with Barbaresco making a call too early. Just a year or two extra and the dimensions of the wine far different in their insight to future drinking. It's what has kept prices so reasonable. Hmmm.

[winetastic]

That's fair pricing . Leave for 5 years.

How good is this wine, compares to other big names (e.g. Aldo Conterno, Bruno Giacosa,Vietti etc) ?

A large portion of what you are paying for with such names is history but also consistency across vintages. That doesn't mean that other producers don't make wines which offer just as much pleasure.

FWIW I have Vietti in the "more marketing than substance" basket and think they make many awkward modernist wines, as well as some magnificent ones. The fact that one can purchase their entry level Barolo (in a dozen) for $20 USD, and yet retail here is north of $100 AUD also doesn't sit well. The winemaker is a delightful chap, but they sold the place... its a "brand" now.

I have only had the pleasure of tasting Bruno Giacosa Barbaresco once, it was by far and away the most complete and balanced Nebbiolo I have tried. I can see why they can charge the prices they do.

Aldo Conterno recent vintages are not as traditional as the reputation suggests, even if the quality of the wine was very high.

I have had excellent experiences with Vajra wines, and would take them over most Vietti bottlings any day (even if Vietti was not 4 or more times the price). Unfortunately the visit to the cellar door was not the most memorable. Do try their Riesling if you see it...

[tarija]

FWIW I have Vietti in the "more marketing than substance" basket and think they make many awkward modernist wines, as well as some magnificent ones. The fact that one can purchase their entry level Barolo (in a dozen) for $20 USD, and yet retail here is north of $100 AUD also doesn't sit well.

Not sure where you are finding Vietti Castiglione in the US for USD 20...cheapest price on WS is USD 40, excluding taxes. Most stores range from USD 43-45 pre-tax. But point taken that the wine and overall brand is priced very aggressively in Aust.

[JamieBahrain]

I have had spectacular verticals and horizontals of Viettis Cru wines and I have never really found the wines evocative in site expression. Good wines sure but not the experience I'm looking for. Checking cellar tracker I have little in the cellar- hmmm just found some 1990 Lazzarrito.

This month Vietti is my house quaffer. The lovely 2012 La Crena and Scarrone Barbera- which is a beautiful old vineyard just over the wall at cellar door ( below ). And the aforementioned 2013 Castiglione Barolo.

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[Mivvy]

I like the Vietti Rocche but not such a fan of the other crus. However, I have never bought Vietti in Australia due to the inflated pricing. I was able to buy Rocche in the US for less than ~US$160 a bottle including some back vintages up until a year or so ago. I think pricing in Australia is closer to A$400. Also the Castiglione has gone from mid US$30’s to mid $40’s in the past few years. The pricing is out of whack and better value to be had elsewhere, Vajra as mentioned by winetastic, Brovia, Massolino.......

[Con J]

Had some interesting young and surprisingly approachable wines in the last week.

2010 Massolino – Barolo.
2010 Roagna – Paje Barbaresco Vecchie Viti.
2012 Bruno Giacosa – Asili Barbaresco.
2015 Giacomo Conterno – Barbera d’Alba Francia.
2013 Giuseppe Mascarello – Monprivato Barolo.
2005 Brezzer – Sarmassa Barolo.

Cheers Con.

[Con J]

Tonight had a 2010 Cavaloto - Bricco Boschis with Rabbit.

Cheers Con.

[JamieBahrain]

Nice !

How do you find the glass for fine nebbiolo?

[Ian S]

Had some interesting young and surprisingly approachable wines in the last week.

2010 Massolino – Barolo.
2010 Roagna – Paje Barbaresco Vecchie Viti.
2012 Bruno Giacosa – Asili Barbaresco.
2015 Giacomo Conterno – Barbera d’Alba Francia.
2013 Giuseppe Mascarello – Monprivato Barolo.
2005 Brezzer – Sarmassa Barolo.

Cheers Con.

Vinfanticide! (still, you pays your money, you gets to choose when to drink them )

FWIW drinking B&B up to 3-4 years after release is often a moderately decent bet - when the fruit remains able to fight the tannic onslaught, with modern winemaking sometimes extending this much longer. FWIW I prefer them when they re-emerge many years later, but that's personal preference and to a degree ' the times they are a changing'.

[michel]

Had some interesting young and surprisingly approachable wines in the last week.

2010 Massolino – Barolo.
2010 Roagna – Paje Barbaresco Vecchie Viti.
2012 Bruno Giacosa – Asili Barbaresco.
2015 Giacomo Conterno – Barbera d’Alba Francia.
2013 Giuseppe Mascarello – Monprivato Barolo.
2005 Brezzer – Sarmassa Barolo.

Cheers Con.

Vinfanticide! (still, you pays your money, you gets to choose when to drink them )

FWIW drinking B&B up to 3-4 years after release is often a moderately decent bet - when the fruit remains able to fight the tannic onslaught, with modern winemaking sometimes extending this much longer. FWIW I prefer them when they re-emerge many years later, but that's personal preference and to a degree ' the times they are a changing'.

catching that re emergence is the trick down the track Ian.......

[Ian S]

and sometimes seemingly impossible to hit with some wines.

In some ways it's about gambling $100 in the hope of winning $200. Drinking earlier being the former, drinking later the latter.

[JamieBahrain]

It' s becoming far more accepted to drink young B & B. Even in Piedmont. Wine lists aren't what they used to be- the good ones classified information.

I was chatting to an importer recently, old school, and he wants Piedmont producers to release wine later or accept the cost of him being unable to sell wines ready for consumption. I said that's a fantasy and not to worry, people are drinking frighteningly young nebbiolo. Some producers I spoke to recently, see later release nebbiolo as a commercial opportunity only.

I'm actually trying to get more people to try adolescent Barolo and Barbaresco. I feel that just as many bottles consumed too young, many are too old too. I have a 2008 horizontal of Produtorri I'm doing in a few months - will report further.

[winetastic]

Speaking of drinking Barolo too young... Had a Vajra Barolo Albe 2013 tonight. Frightfully young and tannic, very good quality but basically impenetrable right now.

[Con J]

We are drinking off the wine lists at restaurants and most of it is young.

Just about all the wine shops we have been in are hot and all the wine is standing up.
So we are bit worried about ordering older wines.

Not only that but we are trying stuff we have in our cellar’s, don’t usually get a chance to try before we buy.

The Glassware has been pretty good most of the time.

Cheers Con.

[Con J]

Last night had a 2012 Giacomo Conterno - Cerretta with veal cheaks.
This would have been the most powerful and structured wine we've had so far.

Cheers Con.

[BHCC1]

Hi Con
Looks like you are living the good life in Barolo at the moment. We are just back in Australia after spending the last month there. Had the 2008 version of the Conterno Cerretta one night and was very impressed.
Would be interested to know the name of the restaurants reflected in your photos but understand if you are keeping them quiet to protect the wine lists. You have probably worked out where you will be eating for the remainder of the trip but can I put in a suggestion for Agriturismo Iride in Roddino. A little out of the way but, from both a food and wine perspective, well worth the diversion

[Con J]

Hi Con
Looks like you are living the good life in Barolo at the moment. We are just back in Australia after spending the last month there. Had the 2008 version of the Conterno Cerretta one night and was very impressed.
Would be interested to know the name of the restaurants reflected in your photos but understand if you are keeping them quiet to protect the wine lists. You have probably worked out where you will be eating for the remainder of the trip but can I put in a suggestion for Agriturismo Iride in Roddino. A little out of the way but, from both a food and wine perspective, well worth the diversion

Thanks for the recommendation but we are eating walking distance from where we are staying.

I will write up where we went and what we thought of the food and wine list when I get home.
Only got a couple of days left before we fly out.

Last night had a 1990 Ceretto – Bricco Asili Barbaresco and 1995 Ceretto – Bricco Rocche Barolo.

Tonight was 2013 Piero Busso – San Stunet Barbaresco.

Cheers Con.