German Riesling Advice

[catchnrelease]

Looking to get a small number of German rizzas to cellar medium-long term. Any advice? Prefer something in the off-dry, slightly sweet spectrum, so probably Spatlese or so.

Currently looking at some of the 2015 Jo Jos Prums. Nothing over $100 p.b. domestically, preferably closer to the $50-70 mark.

[dingozegan]

I'm a big fan of MSR Riesling, and I'd highly recommend the following producers:
Eugen Müller
JJ Prüm
Maximin Grünhaus
Willi Schaefer
Reinhold Haart
Dönnhoff

Kabinetts are obviously off-dry and are cheaper than Spätlese (which are often much sweeter than they used to be - and some producers will push that ripeness/sweetness in a vintage like 2015 anyway.)

There are plenty of other producers (including some that are more widely available - e.g., Dr Loosen, although the quality isn't as high IMO). Or you could go elsewhere, like Rheinhessen or Rheingau or Pfalz.... but that's a whole other list.

[paulf]

If you are in Melbourne or Sydney you might want to get along to this in February
http://rieslingdownunder.com.au/
Last time they had it, there were a fair few German wines among others.
I don't know how much experience you've had with German Riesling, and I am certainly no expert myself, but I will note that there are quite a few trockens I have tried that seem sweeter than some Australian Off Drys.

[rens]

Great Thread. Looking forward to seeing what others think.

[Polymer]

Some other producers I like..

Hofgut Falkenstein
Weiser Kunstler

Haven't had much but liked what I've had so far
Zilliken

One that I think has some interesting Rieslings at different price points..some just ok ones though..

Clemens Busch

All of these make it to AU in some way or another....

[Ian S]

FWIW I'd say as long as it is a genuine historic vineyard and not a grosslage, then I've had great luck on relatively unheralded producers from spatlese up to Auslese (and Beerenauslese). Probably plenty of good Kabinetts as well, but I guess global warming means we see less of them (and the low prices make it not worth the importer bothering). I'm guessing however that importers will mostly stick to the recognised names if shipping wines to Aussie.

[Wizz]

Hi, I've been cellaring German Rieslings for a while now, particularly the off dry through to sweet styles.

For most Australians accustomed to bone dry wines, off dry and slightly sweet will mean kabinett or feinherb rather than spatlese.

On regions - for off dry, Mosel and Nahe are king. Pfalz Rheingau and others seem more successful with dry wines, which the Mosel does less well.

2015 is being heavily hyped in the Mosel, I havent seen much in the way of reporting for other german regions. However there havent been many truly bad years since 2000 (other than perhaps 2002, wet, or 2003, heat). Producers to consider:

JJ Prum - relatively expensive, classical, reserved, very long living
Egon Muller (not Eugen Muller) - super expensive, refined, tight when young
Willi Schaefer - delightful balanced wines. Graacher Domprobst and Himmelreich wines are better than their Wehlener Sonnenuhr
Schloss Lieser - tend to be fruity and drink well early on. They still age, but are hard to resist young!
Fritz Haag - lovely floral styles from Brauneberg. Age nicely.
AJ Adam - big wines. Sweeter than most at the same level. Demand food.
Donnhoff - I liked these in the mid 2000s but found the kabinetts didnt age to my liking. Spatlese are brilliant though - could be a vineyard issue with the Oberhauser Liestenberg vineyard that the Kabinett comes from
Schaefer Frohlich - lovely lovely wines from the Nahe. Refined and balanced. He makes a Spatlese Goldkapsel that is to die for.
Grunhaus & Zilliken are also worth you attention

There are others Iv'e never tried (or only seen a few of) that get great reviews, Wieser Kunstler, Hofgut Falkenstein, Peter Lauer, Emrich Schoenleber.

On what comes into Aus - imports are heavily biassed to dry off dry and kabinett, as Spatlese and sweeter dont sell well. They do come in in small quantities, but you'll need to look for them - some dont get to retail.

On ageing - we had an 04 JJ Prum Kabinett not long ago and it is still alive and fresh with years to go yet. Also an 07 Willi Schaefer Kabinett - only just showing secondary flavours.

Hops this is some help,

[Hacker]

I'm not a Riesling follower, but I have read that Gunther Steinmetz produces some well regarded wines recently.

[deejay81]

You can't really go wrong with the Prum's especially the 15's...
With the price range you mentioned, you can buy the whole spectrum of Kab's to Auslese's (excluding Goldkaps)
Cam has some great notes on these I think so have a look for them.

Agree with Dingo, Kabinett's are the new Spatlese's, and Spatlese's are the new Auslese's almost...
So perhaps buy more Kab's as they are cheaper.

Good luck with this, it's hard not to get hooked....

[Mike Hawkins]

Prum is my favourite, especially GKs with age. Molitor makes some good stuff, but also produces some head scratchers

[Mark Carrington]

Can’t argue with any of the above.
JJP tops for quality/VFM; A J Adam excellent & a nice guy; Dönnhoff always excellent though GGs are pricey.

One other to throw into the mix: Daniel Vollenweider. He has reclaimed Wolfer vineyard which had fallen into disrepair, st Traben-Trarbach. He has moved more towards the dry style to help sales. All are outstanding & prices are more than fair until Auslese reaches. A passionate winemaker & maybe the friendliest on the planet.

[cleanskinlover]

Yes... to all the advise on the 2015's sub $100
Weingut Clemens Busch ( for earlier drinking), Robert Weil (for ageing) & Reichsrat Von Buhl Deidesheimer Paradiesgarten & Herrgottsacker ( long haul).

All are dry

[catchnrelease]

Thanks for all the advice everyone, out of curiosity, if given these two option which would you pick (assuming your desire for white burg and german riseling was equal). Price is roughly the same as well.


2014 Chateau de Puligny-Montrachet Saint Aubin En Remilly Premier Cru

OR

2009 Joh Jos Prum Graacher Himmelreich Riesling Auslese

I have one spot left in my order, and I'm tossing up between these two.

[swirler]

Auslese is very ripe/sweet, so it's a bit like comparing apples with oranges (disregarding the fact that we are already comparing different varieties!) So you need to choose between sweet and dry.

[catchnrelease]

Auslese is very ripe/sweet, so it's a bit like comparing apples with oranges (disregarding the fact that we are already comparing different varieties!) So you need to choose between sweet and dry.

It’s not a choice in styles, I know the two are completely different. It’s more so in comparative quality. I’m buying a bunch of White Burgundy and German Riesling (hence thread) and have a spare spot in the case. Just tossing up which one to put in.

[George Krashos]

I say you go with what you have less of or have experienced less.

-- George Krashos

[michel]

I say you go with what you have less of or have experienced less.

-- George Krashos

I agree
But 2014 white burgundy is most excellent
Get a burgundy!