The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

[JamieBahrain]

Giuseppe Mascarello Barolo Santo Stefano di Perno 2012- Well I held off for 4 days after arriving home from Italy. A few evenings enjoying a magnum of 2006 Thalabert Crozes Hermitage versus a 750ml 2012. But now the cravings for a Nebbiolo are too strong. Also need to get through some cheese/salami we brought back from Piedmont.

Perno has some picturesque vineyards. Worth a drive-by. It's Monforte but you feel you are in Serralunga.

Deeply spiced, typical Mascarello tar in a mesh with red fruits and fresh leather. Fearsome Barolo on day one. Day two at its best the wine comes together with darker fruit on the palate, burnt fig and salty baking spice. Ferrous, warm tannins and spirit carry a long finish.

A 2012 worth a gamble for the long-run.

92pts+





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[Ian S]

Also need to get through some cheese/salami we brought back from Piedmont.

Ha! That's my normal trick So much so, that I usually travel out with empty tupperware to put the cheeses (and *fruit, hazlenuts, fresh pasta and salami / bresaola / coppa etc) in for the return journey. I joked on my last visit to Torino, when they asked what I was there for ... "devo fare la spesa" (I have to get the groceries).

Most places will vacuum pack, and some even assume you'll want it vacuum packed. Not such an issue for our short 2 hour flight, but very sensible if heading to Asia. Sadly Aussie (and IIRC NZ customs) regulations don't allow for this little pleasure, which is a real shame as it helps remind you of the holiday even when back home.

Regards
Ian

* Any spring trip will end up with a stack of Nespole (Loquat) brought back, with the Italians having a climate that seems to work much better for the fruit than Africa, though maybe it can be good in it's native parts of Asia? Of course Autumn instead has the bounty of mushrooms and truffles, all also (at least until Brexit actually happens) perfectly ok to bring back.

[Diddy]

The first instalment of my Piedmont Trip Report is now online - http://forum.auswine.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=15695

I'll progressively add to the thread as I get the time to document each of the visits.

[Ozzie W]

It's been suggested before - this thread should really be moved into the Italian section of the forum. Gavin, are you able to move it?

[Gavin Trott]

It's been suggested before - this thread should really be moved into the Italian section of the forum. Gavin, are you able to move it?

I'll be back in Oz in a day or so, and will put my huge technical knowledge to the test.

I shall find a way.

Ciao from Kuala Lumpur ... sigh, that just doesn't sound quite right eh!

.

[Ian S]

Ah KL, flown through there a few times. Not the worst airport in the world and the ability to pay for a shower is useful in removing some of the awfulness of connecting long haul flights.

Happy landings

[JamieBahrain]

It is a Nebbiolo thread not an Italian thread ? There are many notes here on Aussie Nebbiolo though I'm surprised there aren't more. Actually I'm surprised there aren't more contributions considering the trend of Nebbiolo at the moment.

That said, posts have become a littke ancillary and perhaps that's upset Ozzie ? Maybe if the thread is more TN orientated it could stay in its original guise , otherwise , it won't see much interest in the Italian section I'm guessing .

[Ian S]

An interesting conundrum. For me it doesn't matter either way, as I'll happily post on both forums, so will defer to the opinions of those who may find themselves not posting on the Italian forum if this thread is moved there.

...and for those that don't read the Italian forum, well worth heading over there now for the brilliant trip reports from Diddy, which have lots of brilliant pictures, to accompany the equally brilliant prose.

[Ozzie W]

I'm not upset at all, Jamie. Diddy's cross post just reminded me of the previous discussions to move the thread. With the focus pretty much exclusively on Italian Nebbiolo of late, it seems logical to me to move it. I'm happy either way. It's one of my favourite threads on the forum.

[JamieBahrain]

Sorry Ozzie, upset was poor choice of word. Jet lagged still.

I've posted a few TNs on the Italian forum but returned here. I try a number o Nebbiolos every week and individual TNs would smother the forum . That said, this thread has become waffley if you are hunting TNs only . So I don't know what's best. I'd prefer a simple option for collecting TNs.

[Ozzie W]

I actually prefer TN's in their own threads. That way, the subject of the thread tells me exactly what's coming next. If there are follow-up posts, it's clear exactly what is being referring to. It can get a bit messy when different wines are discussed in the same thread. That's my personal preference, but each to their own.

In terms of searching for TN's, it doesn't make any difference to me if they're in separate threads or combined - the search feature on this forum works well in both cases.

I'll go with the flow.

[JamieBahrain]

I agree but I think the issue would be individual TNs drowning out the forum.

If everyone posted a TN here for what they were drinking now for example , this section would just be pages and pages of TNs of varying interest to the audience .

[JamieBahrain]

Hmmmm...all's quiet on the nebbiolo front?

I've been buying Olek Bondonio's wines since 2007 and having met Olek soon after, been giving him as much of a wrap as possible on the forums. His wine's are great, he's a funny guy and his property atop the Roncagliette Cru, Cascina Berchialla, is well worth a visit as it sits sentinel to two very famous vineyards ( Gaja's Costa Russi & Soril Tildin ). Olek's worked in Australia and get's Aussie visitors every week so the word's out !

I drank 2014 Roncagliette & Starderi side by side over a few nights on two occassions- four bottles. I shipped a heap of these wines back from Italy to trial an air freight deal at work, so need to mow through a few bottles for fridge space !

You can see Starderi from Olek's place. Roncagliette and Starderi both sit at the extremites of the Barbaresco appellation and their soils are different. The compacted calcerous marls of Roncagliette versus the sandier soils of Starderi hill. Aromatically, both wines are very similar over the days they were open. Day one- pepper, herbs and menthol overtones put the vintage into question. By day two you have a deligtful rich and deep mix of red and black cherry, a little cranberry and chocolate. Roncagliette is muscular, very long and with tannins of fire and brimstone- though easily tamed with a large cut of local cheese. Starderi is structurally finer, red fruits and spirit contrast to the darker palate notes of Roncagliette. Very approachable with a vein of fresh acidity and sandy-fine tannins.

Both wines 93pts +



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La Berchailla looking north west.

[Ozzie W]

Tonight I'm drinking a Nebbiolo that's not from Italy. This one's from the west side of Paso Robles in California.

2010 Giornata Nebbiolo Luna Matta

14.5% ABV

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This is not archetypal Nebbiolo by any means. Fresh, tart raspberry fruits with a hint of dark cherry. Sweet vanilla oak. Nuances of black pepper. Barbera like acidity. Light and dusty tannins. None of that classic tar n' roses you get from Italian Nebbiolo. Everything is slightly out of balance. Tasted blind I'd never pick this as a Nebbiolo.

Why did I buy this
And I have one more bottle!

[winetastic]

Why did I buy this
And I have one more bottle!

I was always curious but never pulled the trigger. Thank's for taking one for the team, doing gods work there mate.

[JamieBahrain]

Been after some Mexican nebs to light up the thread....

[JamieBahrain]

Francesco Sobrero Barolo Ciabot Tanasio 2013 - A recent visit to cellar door and geez they seemed to have some brett issues. The 13's seemed clean so I purchased this and their bog-standard Barolo to take home. Modest pricing made it a minor gamble !

Ciabot Tansio is a blend of three vineyards in C-F noted for having wines of robust structure. One of the vineyards sits perched between Monprivato and Vilero though the MGA book says vineyard aspect can be erratic and there's never been wines of note. Pernanno more noted and the vines from here older though best fruit goes into their riserva.

A bright Barolo, with berry- fresh leather and slightly sour red citrus notes. On day two it really hits its strides with youthful, sweet and expansive fruit on the palate and a powerful, citrus tinged column of tannins completing. Quite something considering the price and the Romans must have had an orange orchard here!

94pts+

The regular Barolo was a good lesson in vintage structure with diluted varietal notes that varied in intensity. Quite good- very powerful needing food to tame.

88pts +

In the picture an interesting wine from di Gresy: Virtus Langhe Rosso Doc 2007-A barbera cabernet blend ( 60-40 ) from 2007. Gifted at cellar door and quite an interesting wine delivering very ripe and typically 2007 barbera, crafted with a warm cabernet structure. Ageworthy though best now. 89pts




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[Michael McNally]

Why did I buy this
And I have one more bottle!

To take to the next offline.......

Cheers

Michael

[Ian S]

Francesco Sobrero Barolo Ciabot Tanasio 2013 - A recent visit to cellar door and geez they seemed to have some brett issues.

Probably really good for my tastes then I'll aim to give them a try

[Ian S]

*Cross-posted from October buying thread - I figure this might be one to discuss / debate, and I don't mind anyone disagreeing with me!*

Certainly been plenty of chat in recent times about how approachable Barolo/Barbaresco is and whether you have to wait the same length of time / whether the wines will make old bones.

FWIW I feel confident that:
- Even quite traditional & tannic wines in austere years can be drunk 'on the fruit' in youth with suitable food to keep the *tannins from overwhelming the palate. Sometimes a decant can help, but not always as sometimes this just tightens the wine up. Try to be flexible on decanting.
- Many producers are aiming for more upfront charm / softer tannins, either through when they pick, or treatment in the winery. These wines tend not to close down hard and thus remain drinkable through 5, 10, 15 years old.
- Climate change has brought more warmer / hot vintages, with warmer vintages often more approachable, and with more examples that don't close down as hard and thus remain drinkable through 5, 10, 15 years old.
- Some warm / hot vintages have struggled for longevity, but look for the combination of producer / vintage, but more importantly what's in the glass. A producer like Marcarini seem a good bet in warm, even hot vintages and I've enjoyed a 1997 and even a 2003 from them
- Austere vintages / producers can/will still result in wines that shut down hard once the initial fruit subsides, such that they can appear fruitless. This is then a game of waiting and hope. Not all emerge in 2,3 or more decades to be the ethereally brilliant wines that I enjoy the most.

I'm not confident on whether those wines made with more upfront appeal will make old bones. My suspicion is that they generally won't, but some exceptions will. Ditto the occasional warm and seemingly always accessible vintage will surprise (as 1979 did, though personally I've not been as lucky with it).

So useful to get a feel for producer and vintage - or even better get to taste on release, as what's in the glass is the only truth. I have a preference for traditional and austere style in cellaring vintages, but have still got a mix including some modernist leaning wines, some more modest/accessible producers and some warmer vintages. These other wines are enjoyable relatively young, but also serve as good cellar defenders to keep me from the wines that need more sleep.

Regards
Ian

* It is instructive to do a tasting of new release Barolo or Barbaresco, with and without food. Without, the first 2-3 seem imposing but easy enough to drink, but by the time you get to the 4th or 5th tasting sample, you really notice the tannic grip that's disguised by the upfront fruit. Tasting with food, the effect is much less noticeable.

[JamieBahrain]

Monfortino 2010 offers coming in between $1000 Aussie and $1700 Aussie a bottle.

[michel]

Monfortino 2010 offers coming in between $1000 Aussie and $1700 Aussie a bottle.

gulp
I would love to try one

[JamieBahrain]

I would like six. Good investment and incentive to survive to their maturity.

[Ozzie W]

I would like six. Good investment and incentive to survive to their maturity.

[michel]

I would like six. Good investment and incentive to survive to their maturity.

6 dozen

[tarija]

Monfortino 2010 offers coming in between $1000 Aussie and $1700 Aussie a bottle.

Ex-cellar price rumoured to be 270 euro, so there is some crazy margins happening...especially at $1700 per. Surely no bottles will move at that price?

(Or a good incentive for a trip to NZ to claim back some WET).

[michel]

Monfortino 2010 offers coming in between $1000 Aussie and $1700 Aussie a bottle.

Ex-cellar price rumoured to be 270 euro, so there is some crazy margins happening...especially at $1700 per. Surely no bottles will move at that price?

(Or a good incentive for a trip to NZ to claim back some WET).

I would love a 6 pack
And carry it home

[JamieBahrain]

Well the latest offer in HKG is $2300 AUD per bottle via an outfit that can have smart Piedmont prices.

I wish I'd bought more Monortino just a few years ago but I was buying a balanced cellar which I now regret ( balanced cellars are always available on the secondary market ). The signs were there years ago with it being recognized locally as Italy's greatest wine and seeing insatiable demand.

I read on one of the forums a guy paying $50 a bottle for it back in the 70's which was crazy-expesnive. Considering weekly wages and inflation, if the wine can be had for $800 - ish price is perhaps fair.

[JamieBahrain]

Nice little vertical last night with "Gaiun" from Martinenga. This is the only monopole in Piedmont, with Gaiun being from one of two separate sites in Martinenga having it's own bottling- Camp Gros being the other. Gaiun is deliberately more international in style and as with the often spectacular Camp Gros, it needs a lot of time.


Marchesi di Grésy Barbaresco Martinenga Gaiun 1999- Airy high toned perfumes sit above heavier aromatics of spices, ripe plum, sandalwood and just starting to emerge, tertiary notes of tobacco and truffle. Dark, extracted palate flavors, tar, coal and distinct pu'er tea. Grippy tannins march in one direction toward a long finish.

92pts

Marchesi di Grésy Barbaresco Martinenga Gaiun 2000- Overall, significantly lighter than the other two wines. It is delicate, yet piercing in its bouquet of ligther red florals, cherries, smoke and pleasant animale. The wine wasn't decanted, palate evolution in the glass sees the wine more palate expansive and complete, with meaty, dark fruit complexity and light rusty notes prior the channeled finish of firm tannin. Drink up!

93pts

Marchesi di Grésy Barbaresco Martinenga Gaiun 2001- Awful prune, tar and varnishy oak. OK, slow-ox doesn't work here! Out comes the decanter and an hour brings a deliverance !

Dried fruits, tar and coal. Powerful wine, unevolved though more settled with air. I could have extracted more beauty from this wine, but as I was sharing with three others, time wasn't on my side. A little more of a sleep in the cellar required and an older nebbiolo that needs to be decanted.

90pts+

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[FredericoWines]

Saw a G.D. Vajra Barolo Ravera 2012 for CAD90 (USD70), is this a good one in a good year? Should I get one and how long to put away before opening it? I'm a Barolo newbie.