Sydney - Wendouree and Friends Offline Fri Sept 29

[Polymer]

The 96 cab malbec at an Ade offline last year was excellent. I remember bracing myself to be disappointed. I'm thinking here comes nail polish remover and harsh tannins. Not at all. I remember the remark was made that we 'could've made roads with it'!. Had that fantastic railway sleeper, gravel like bitumen note which I enjoyed. It was much more lucious and fruity than i expected (blackberries and black olives) and had amazing length.

The 96 is so atypical I'm not really sure what to think of it...so what you're saying matches with what I've seen...

[Mike Hawkins]

Maybe not one sight or primitive production, but Penfolds sure gets its share of scrutiny here !

[JamieBahrain]

10% of Wendouree affected by cork issues .

10% + of Wendouree not stored properly . Probably much, much higher as I'm finding Australian cellaring appalling from secondary market purchases .

90% of Wendouree consumed too young in my observation here.

And when all the factors above dealt with , about 50% of folks don't like the style anyways . Though in my experience presenting the wines at their best, they were better received abroad

[rooman]

10% of Wendouree affected by cork issues .

10% + of Wendouree not stored properly . Probably much, much higher as I'm finding Australian cellaring appalling from secondary market purchases .

90% of Wendouree consumed too young in my observation here.

And when all the factors above dealt with , about 50% of folks don't like the style anyways . Though in my experience presenting the wines at their best, they were better received abroad

Jamie

I see no reason for the wines to better received abroad unless the tasters have less international exposure. The people at the tasting definitely have an extremely wide exposure. On the other hand it seems those who enjoy the wines in Australia seem to have less exposure to foreign wines and hence look for less complexity in their wines.

[JamieBahrain]

It's just an observation and no idea why. They would drink very little Australian wine .

The tastings are carefully structured and presented to give the wine the best opportunity to avoid negativity .

Perhaps a change is as good as a holiday? Or the are just being polite ?

I can't see reason in your last part of your comment though .

[Polymer]

I see no reason for the wines to better received abroad unless the tasters have less international exposure. The people at the tasting definitely have an extremely wide exposure. On the other hand it seems those you enjoy the wines in Australia seem to have less exposure to foreign wines and hence look for less complexity in their wines.

I'd say nearly everyone I know that really enjoys Wendouree, has a lot of exposure to foreign wines...Probably 90+%. I also think Jamie is spot on with saying people that enjoy Northern Italian, generally like Wendouree....and I think that is how you view the texture on a young Wendouree...For some, Barolo can be a big tannic monster...I don't think of them that way as well...and Wendouree is very similar in texture (thicker but similar). Eg. Where do you place Barolo in a tasting order? For me they're right after Pinot...for some they're after Cabs...

Everyone that doesn't enjoy Wendouree...I'd say it is split between what I'd consider a lot of exposure and not a lot of exposure to foreign wines...

The dislike of Wendouree has nothing to do with complexity...IMO it tends to be either you dislike the texture...so too much acid, tannics are too hard...or you don't like some of the oddball flavors..such as acetic acid (nail polish remover). Or you don't like the combination of it all...

[rooman]

Everyone that doesn't enjoy Wendouree...I'd say it is split between what I'd consider a lot of exposure and not a lot of exposure to foreign wines...

The dislike of Wendouree has nothing to do with complexity...IMO it tends to be either you dislike the texture...so too much acid, tannics are too hard...or you don't like some of the oddball flavors..such as acetic acid (nail polish remover). Or you don't like the combination of it all...

Your note raises an interesting question, namely what do people look for in wines - in this context I am referring to people on the forum. Is it complexity of taste when the window is spot on or it is a range of factors like acid, tannins etc etc.

One of the recent discussions revolved around how many bottles people collect of an individual wine. This was a topic I had a long discussion with Dave V about at the Wendouree evening. My personal preference is I am after complexity that can really only come with age. Hence I am interested in anywhere from 4 to 12 bottles because I enjoy wines when they reach their peak drinking window.

For reds, since this will often take 15-20 years or more, this can only really happen if you have 6 or more IMO otherwise most will be drunk too early. For example I recently purchased just one of a bottle what is highly sought after. So now how do I know when to open it? Do I want 5 years, 10 years. etc. Dave's point was there is so many different wines to try hence how can you limited the breath of your tasting experience. So he accepts many wines he purchases will be drunk too early so factors such as those you mention come more into play.

[JamieBahrain]

Wendouree reminds me of old Piedmont as the primary descriptors could be textural and structural. Modern TNs with descriptions of jovial aromatics and questionable flavour profiles are new .

Reading older books or in the modern day the MGA Barolo and Barbaresco texts, primary chat is the likes of power , finesse, austerity and the like. I'm sure the old guard are amused by descriptors of rose hips and geraniums etc.

[Polymer]

So he accepts many wines he purchases will be drunk too early so factors such as those you mention come more into play.

With Wendouree I don't think it is a complexity issue..but an issue of texture and some funny flavors..

Which is why I would say if you don't enjoy Wendouree young, don't bother buying it...because no matter what, most of the time you won't drink it in the right spot...New ones probably don't suffer from that as much and from what I've seen, most people seem to enjoy the newer style more so than the old (both wine geek and non-wine geek) when young because they aren't as confronting.

Jamie - I think you're spot on...It can be quite similar in texture. For me, Barolo/Barbaresco Tannins are very fine and enjoyable even when young..and I find the same thing with Wendouree...It is also why I think people that dislike the tannins on Wendouree will have more issues with young traditional Barolo...