Advice on Older Aussie Reds - UPDATE

[Mahmoud Ali]

Going through my wines the other day I came across a box of older, less fancied wines that I cellared. In cramped quarters and less than optimal lighting I tried to look at the colour of the wines throught the neck to see which one I should open next. In the wooden bordeaux box were:

1991 Jamieson's Run Coonawarra (Blend) x 2
1992 Jamieson's Run Coonawarra (Blend) x 2
1992 Delatite 'Devils River', Victoria x 1
1988 Wolf Blass 'Yellow Label' Shiraz/Cabernet x 1
1992 Wolf Blass 'Yellow Label' Shiraz/Cabernet x 1
1987 Chateau Tahbilk Cabernet Sauvignon, Victoria x 1

I know that one of the Jamieson's Run (either '91 or '92) was rather tannic and dark about a decade ago, and that the '87 Tahbilk and the '92 Delatite were rather dull and lifeless some time ago (not sure when but at the time I wasn't sure if it was the vintage or if the wine was in a dumb phase). Through the tannins that coat the neck of the bottle it seems that the Tahbilk is the lightest in colour.

I'm probably one of the few collectors who cellar selected "ordinary wines" so I can well imagine that not many people might have experience with cellared examples of these wines but what the heck, I'm always interested in opinions.

So, my question:

- Which bottle would you open first?
- Which would you expect to last the longest?

Cheers ............... Mahmoud.

[sjw_11]

Mahmoud, I am also a fan of cellaring ordinary wines and have had some shocks on auction buys as well that I couldn't believe were still alive... but at such extended ageing I think you could safely tuck into all of them now! At a pinch, 1991 was a top vintage in SA so that should arguably the most youthful (in the sense you might call a sprightly 80yr old "youthful")

[Ian S]

I'd agree, I suspect some may be dead, some will faded and some will be decent, good or if you strike vinous gold - excellent. I'd be gobsmacked if any were locked up tight, requiring further cellaring.

[mjs]

Mahmoud, it will be an interesting exercise, love doing that sort of thing. I am sure that all will have something to offer. I would like to think that the Tahbilk will be good and hopefully the Jamieson's Runs, particularly the '91. Not so sure about the Wolf Blass Yellow Labels. Delatite might be a smokey!
Perhaps I should ask, what were the cellaring conditions? From new purchase?
Enjoy!

[Waiters Friend]

There's only one option, Mahmoud. Open them, and let us know how they are.

[Mahmoud Ali]

Thanks for the advice, all very much appreciated.

All the wines have been cellared for quite some time, in several places, from excellent to generally good stable conditions. They were all bought near release except fot the Delatite which was a back vintage.

I'm of the opinion that it will be the Tahbilk and Delatite that is likely to be on it's last legs but that the rest should be okay. Back then those Yellow Labels were quite good and Jamieson's Run had not gone to special bottlings. Anyway, I agree they should be opened soon if not immediately, certainly before I approach any of my 1996s and later vintages.

I also pulled a 1995 Bailey's Shiraz that I bought in the UK many years ago (1999 I think it was, in Purley, perhaps at a Waitrose or a Tesco). So this coming weekend it will be either the Tahbilk or the Baileys, maybe both if needed.

Mahmoud.

PS: No guarantee of notes but I will report back if any are opened.

[Ian S]

I'd have high hopes for the Baileys, they always were 'sturdy'. I recall an old Penguin guide had one of the best descriptions of a winery's style when describing Baileys and how they'd ....become more civilised ... but their knuckles still graze the ground.

[mjs]

There's only one option, Mahmoud. Open them, and let us know how they are.

^^ + 1

[DJ]

I collected the Jamieson's Run for a while back then - the 1988 won the Jimmy Watson. I cleaned them all out in about 2002, okay but not great wines. As others have said 1991 is the pick of the vintages (for South Australia). 1992 was pretty ordinary in SA, 1988 rarely came into perfect balance for me, kept my 88 St Henri's for a fair while but the tannins never came together so I sold the last few. No idea on the Victorian vintages.

I'd be expecting a fair few of these to be undrinkable and the rest just boring.

1995 Baileys could be good - 95 was rough in SA but good in Victoria (95 Grange was rumoured to have some St Peters fruit that year).

[Mahmoud Ali]

I'd have high hopes for the Baileys, they always were 'sturdy'. I recall an old Penguin guide had one of the best descriptions of a winery's style when describing Baileys and how they'd ....become more civilised ... but their knuckles still graze the ground.

Ian, it must have been the 2000-2001 Penguin Good Australian Wine Guide by Ralph Kyte-Powell & Huon Hooke? You have a very good memory for this is what they said:

"Thirty years ago, Bailey reds were gutsy hillbillies, rough and ready and uneducated in the refined ways of the city folk who were starting to sip table wine. Today they've been to finishing school, they're better dressed and better mannered, but their knuckles still graze the ground."

Then followed an equally colourful review of the 1998 Baileys 1920s Block Shiraz ("This is the sort of wine medicos used to prescribe for anaemia"). I picked up a few bottles of these 1920s Block at cellar door along with some older bottles of 'Classic Cabernet' and 'Classic Shiraz'. On the day I visited, they had a whole range of older wines that had been opened the previous day for a special tasting. I was thrilled to be allowed to taste these day-old wines, all arrayed on long tables in a separate room, of which some were available for purchase. Between the 1991s and 1992s the ones thaty won me over, keeping in mind they were a day old, were the 1992s. I also couldn't resist picking up a couple of 1983 Vintage Ports. All of them are still slumbering. In fact I was thinking of opening a 1992 Baileys when I came across the above mentioned wines.

Mahmoud.

[Ian S]

That's the one! For all the compromises they had to make to fit the Penguin format, I really enjoyed the writing style / humour of HH and RKP (Mark Shield was before my time).

[michel]

RIP
Mark Shield
Generous encouraging writer of brilliantly funny tasting notes
Thanks for the memory

[mjs]

RIP
Mark Shield
Generous encouraging writer of brilliantly funny tasting notes
Thanks for the memory

Indeed, he was always an entertaining and engaging wine writer

[felixp21]

don't know too much about those wines, except to say that you will need to be lucky with the Bailey's.
sadly, that once-great winery has declined into the realm of the pedestrian producer, they have totally lost their way. The last good vintage was 1992, the last great vintage 1983 IMO. The wines from the 50's-70's were quite amazing, amongst the best this country has ever produced. The 53 Bailey's Hermitage still stands amongst the best five wines I have seen.
I have a ton of 98-04 1904 old block shiraz in the cellar, none have matured into anything above ordinary, I will leave them rest another decade and see what happens!!! (but i don't hold out any great hope)

[Mahmoud Ali]

On the weekend I opened the '87 Tahbilk. No backup required. I posted my thoughts on a separate thread.

[Mahmoud Ali]

Now a separate post on the 1995 Baileys Shiraz.

[Mahmoud Ali]

don't know too much about those wines, except to say that you will need to be lucky with the Bailey's.
sadly, that once-great winery has declined into the realm of the pedestrian producer, they have totally lost their way. The last good vintage was 1992, the last great vintage 1983 IMO. The wines from the 50's-70's were quite amazing, amongst the best this country has ever produced. The 53 Bailey's Hermitage still stands amongst the best five wines I have seen.
I have a ton of 98-04 1904 old block shiraz in the cellar, none have matured into anything above ordinary, I will leave them rest another decade and see what happens!!! (but i don't hold out any great hope)

I know what you mean by "being lucky" with the Baileys. In my separate post on the wine you will note that I describe the wine as being pinot-like, which is not what I imagine a typical Baileys should be, even with age. However, I consider myself lucky because the 1995 Shiraz was, at 22 years of age, an old and drinkable wine, even if not shiraz-like. I find that the older a wine gets the more they resemble each other. What is that saying, about when was the last time you confused a Bordeaux with a Burgundy?

What I find interesting is that you mention the 1992 vintage. In my earlier post I referred to my cellar door visit to Baileys where they had a few older bottles on tasting. They had been opened the previous day for a special tasting and I was allowed to help myself to tast the day-old bottles. There were about a dozen bottles there and the highlight for me were the shiraz and cabernets from 1991, 1992 and 1994. My favourite was the 1992 and since they were available for sale I bought a few bottle. The Classic Cabernet and the Classic Shiraz. I still have them.

Cheers ................ Mahmoud.

[Mahmoud Ali]

A third bottle opened, the 1992 Jamieson's Run Coonawarra, and comments posted on a separate thread.

Mahmoud.

[Mahmoud Ali]

I've now found a 1983 Rosemount Estate Coonawarra Cabernet Sauvignon and a 1991 Basedow Semillon. Both are long in the tooth I suspect and due for opening sometime soon. Anybody remember these?

Mahmoud.

[Mahmoud Ali]

A slight correction, the Basedow label has "White Burgundy" on it, though of course is likely a semillon. The next day (I am moving my wines) there appeared a 1991 Rosemount Estate Semillon.

[Michael McNally]

G'day Mahmoud

I know you like them old, but I suspect none of these wines were of the quality to benefit from, nor produced with a view to, cellaring for an extended period. Yes the old Rosemount labels punched well above their weight in QPR terms, but I think they were only built for short-term cellaring. Others may know more about the Basedow.

Good luck. I hope you fins signs of life in them. If anyone can find virtues in these oldies it will be you (this is a compliment).

Cheers

Michael

[ticklenow1]

I had a 1978 Basedow Barossa Hermitage recently and it was stunning. At the end of it's run, granted, but just a pleasure to drink.

You never know, those old wines may be OK.

Cheers
Ian