Wine (alcohol) and Reflux

[RockyRed]

Hello All, not a new Member but one who was previously here for several years (Underwraps50) and appears to have 'lapsed' due to inactivity.
Although a wine enthusiast of 45 years, my consumption has been tapering off for over a decade due to a problem with Reflux which appears to be primarily related to wine (alcohol) consumption (as I don't have it unless I drink alcohol).
Some research schools of thought suggest that alcohol can be a prime causal factor.
Without boring people with unnecessary detail at this stage, I am wondering if other wine enthusiasts have encountered this problem, and whether they have any info to offer. I have discussed with my GP. All pathology is normal. I am trying to avoid H-2 blockers or PPIs due to their downsides.

[rens]

Only with Semillon and only after the 2nd glass.
For me I think it may be the PH of the Sems. Not that I have researched it but the ph seems to be lower in them and I think that causes it for me.
Reds are fine.

[Bobthebuilder]

My greatest nightmare
Hope you work something out.
How do you go with spitting most of it?

[RockyRed]

rens - Australian Rieslings used to be one of my favourite wines but I started avoiding them about 15 years ago as the 'acidity' seemed to cause discomfort almost immediately. The less acidic the better I cope with it, that is until I lie down and then any alcohol consumed results in Reflux.

Thanks Bob. I guess if I have to spit it I will just cease drinking any alcohol.

[phillisc]

Yes RR, know what you are talking about...I had an endoscopy last week, findings showed at the junction of the esophagus and the stomach about a 10 mm area of gastric irritation (aka reflux)...I put this down to 35+ years of drinking...anything. No evidence of Barrett's which is nice, changes in the lining (forerunner to cancers, varacies all that nasty stuff associated with drinking).
Anyway have a meeting with the gastroenterologist on Monday to confirm...hopefully all good.
Whilst on this stuff worth anyone having a breath test for H-Pylori to see if you have any issues, sorted with antibiotics and PPIs.

I find I am OK with pretty well any alcohol and also have the issue of being a chilli addict, most Indian joints after a Vindaloo leave me wanting more.

I did something silly at Easter, round the campfire on the farm with all the younger brother in laws, sons and nephews (and at 50 something should know better)...drank the best part of a bottle of Bombay Sapphire...foolish yes, reflux no, strangely no hangover and after a night walk in the bush was found asleep in a chair in front of said fire.

Probably have to start tampering off now so the next 3 or so decades don't give me too much grief.
Cheers
craig

[odyssey]

I've had stomach issues come and go, once so severe I stopped eating for 6 weeks. Over the past 10 years I had to go on PPIs 3-4 times. The scans, endoscope and bloods found little of interest.

My issues are more around too much acid and bile causing painful indigestion rather than reflux up the oesophagus, but maybe I can help.

I was able to gradually wean off PPIs through apple cider vinegar. I know it sounds counterintuitive (acid on acid), and I thought the same but with a bit of tweaking it's worked very well for me.

Be sure to get the right one (must have "the mother")

- buy Apple cider vinegar with "the mother". GNC health or similar places will have it.
- add 2 tablespoons worth into a tall glass
- add a very small amount (quarter teaspoon) bicarb soda
- allow reaction to settle
- stir in a tablespoon of honey (or so, to taste) until dissolved. Manuka honey if you can get it.
- add water to top up the glass

Drink this daily. I drank it at night as that's when I was most effected.

Fair warning, its an acquired taste...

[jimv]

A teaspoon of slippery elm powder mixed into a thick paste twice a day and Nat phos 6x tissue salt before meals works for me.

[RockyRed]

Thanks Guys,
Phil: It is a complex issue, so many possible causes/contributors. I'm going to have to get referred back to the Gastroenterologist I think.
I think my problem is that many years of Reflux has damaged the esophageal sphincter which is further irritated by contact with alcohol which also increases stomach acidity - compounding the problem. I think there are other factors also at play including possible Gastroparesis (slow digestion) and excess gas produced by the impaired digestive process which causes 'back-pressure' in the system. These will need further investigation.

Odyssey: I will try the Apple cider vinegar. In general, my stomach is fine until I have a drink. I do not consume any alcohol Mon-Thur incl. but like to drink modest amounts of whites & reds, ports & sherries on Fri/Sat/Sun. I am invariably woken by Reflux on those nights at around 1.am and spend at least an hour sitting up in a lounge chair.

Jimv: "Nat phos 6x tissue salt" - something bought from a Chemist ?

[Michael McNally]

I've had stomach issues come and go, once so severe I stopped eating for 6 weeks.

Did you die?

Cheers

Michael

[jimv]

Re: nat phos 6x tissue salts, it is usually available from your local health food store. Might need to be taken for several weeks considering the long term nature of your reflux.

[odyssey]

I've had stomach issues come and go, once so severe I stopped eating for 6 weeks.

Did you die?

Cheers

Michael

Hah well I could stomach about 2 tablespoons of rice porridge per day and 2 tablespoons of fat-free, sugar-free Jalna. I lost 20kg at the time! Good diet. Pity it's all returned with a vengeance.

[redstuff]

Re: nat phos 6x tissue salts, it is usually available from your local health food store. Might need to be taken for several weeks considering the long term nature of your reflux.

Before taking tissue salts I would strongly recommend searching google with the phrase "tissue salts scam quakery" might want to put homeopathy in there as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Heinrich_Sch%C3%BC%C3%9Fler Is a good read.

[Pej]

I get it worse with beer rather than wine. I cut back my drinking (boring I know) at one stage and it pretty much disappeared completely. Now I'm drinking more often again it comes back, but its no where near a bad. I take prescription anti-acids if I feel it coming on now and it usually does the job. Fortunately it isn't something I need to do very often.

I had a nightmare case where I was on a flight from Santiago, Chile to Sydney and I just started eating some lunch, had a sip of beer and it hit me. I think because of the cabin pressure it just wouldn't settle back down. It was always just sitting at the back of my throat causing me to gag and throw up. Then it would rise back up again. For the whole 13 hours. And I wasn't 100% sure what was wrong with me either. Really awful. Then we landed and they opened the doors which obviously normalised the pressure and it completely disappeared. They had to quarantine me though because I had been so sick, but they could see I was fine now and let me go pretty quickly. So I went and bought some duty free whisky.

I don't drink beer on flights any more.

[RockyRed]

I have been experimenting with various foods for some years to see if I could identify particular types of foods that cause problems. This of course is a very difficult process as one eats many different things in the course of a week and it is hard to establish a clear cause-effect relationship for any one item.

Last week I tried "Preservative-free" wine but that didn't make any difference.(also tried the sulphide-neutralising drops - "Pure Wine".)
This week I tried "Alcohol-free" wine (if you can call it that) with the same result. (Yuck)
This suggests that whilst I am certain that alcohol exacerbates the Reflux, it is not really the main cause.

I am tending to think that 'gas' exerting an upward pressure on stomach contents may be the main 'cause'.
Now, what causes the gas? That may be where the 'food types' (Carbs, Proteins & Fats and all their sub-groups - sugars etc)come into it.

[Bobthebuilder]

Sounds like you might need to have a pressure relief valve installed on your chest!

[RockyRed]

Probably not on the Chest, Bob.

[redstuff]

I have been experimenting with various foods for some years to see if I could identify particular types of foods that cause problems. This of course is a very difficult process as one eats many different things in the course of a week and it is hard to establish a clear cause-effect relationship for any one item.

Last week I tried "Preservative-free" wine but that didn't make any difference.(also tried the sulphide-neutralising drops - "Pure Wine".)
This week I tried "Alcohol-free" wine (if you can call it that) with the same result. (Yuck)
This suggests that whilst I am certain that alcohol exacerbates the Reflux, it is not really the main cause.

I am tending to think that 'gas' exerting an upward pressure on stomach contents may be the main 'cause'.
Now, what causes the gas? That may be where the 'food types' (Carbs, Proteins & Fats and all their sub-groups - sugars etc)come into it.

Do this experiment:
Add 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon of bicarbonate of soda to a glass of wine (will taste terrible) to neutralise residual acids (to about pH ~8).

[jimv]

Re: nat phos 6x tissue salts, it is usually available from your local health food store. Might need to be taken for several weeks considering the long term nature of your reflux.

Before taking tissue salts I would strongly recommend searching google with the phrase "tissue salts scam quakery" might want to put homeopathy in there as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Heinrich_Sch%C3%BC%C3%9Fler Is a good read.

I am quite partial to experimenting with quackery provided it won't cost the earth, tissue salts are cheaper than a bottle of bad wine and don't have nasty side effects like PPI's do.

[Michael McNally]

I've had stomach issues come and go, once so severe I stopped eating for 6 weeks.

Did you die?

Cheers

Michael

Hah well I could stomach about 2 tablespoons of rice porridge per day and 2 tablespoons of fat-free, sugar-free Jalna. I lost 20kg at the time! Good diet. Pity it's all returned with a vengeance.

Sounds a lot like what we fed our toddlers!

Cheers

Michael