Single vineyards designation

[Ian S]

Discussion on another forum about how Australia's particular wine history has meant that whilst single vineyards are sometimes mentioned, there is no legislation around their usage and how some (Kalimna, Steingarten, etc.) have been seamlessly converted into a brand, potentially misleading customers.

So, a couple of questions
1. Do you think single vineyard designation is a good thing and worthy of tightening up?
2. If so, how would you achieve this, bearing in mind the power of the corporations, who have abused the concept?

Personally I'm cautiously for it, but with a need to exercise care that the occasional stupidity from French usage doesn't encroach. There isn't the same historical designation that France, Germany and Italy have, with ownership changing, but the identity of the original vineyard still being retained. I suspect there are relatively few shared vineyards in Australia (and likewise NZ, let's keep this open to both).

So for 2. I'm very wary of the simple registration of a vineyard that a producer wishes to call a 'single vineyard'. It's meaningless. I'm also wary of trying to demonstrate 'special qualities of the terroir' to either include or exclude. So my suggestion is a slow-developing approach along the lines of sporting 'Hall of fame'. Each year a select / independent panel identify a handful of vineyards that have a proven track record via wines made solely from grapes of the vineyard. They induct these vineyards into the classification, and then any wine made solely from this vineyard can take the classification. I'm assuming the big boys would resist this (losing control of their brands) but it doesn't need them to be a success.

What's your thoughts, worth doing something, and if so, what?

[phillisc]

Ian think this is a worthy discussion, as there are many who take absolute liberties here.
Magill Estate is my favourite in the Pennies range and is probably the only single vineyard wine in the portfolio, due to it coming from a 4 acre or so plot. Hill of Grace is probably another one that qualifies, as is Graveyard. Wendouree, Wirra Wirra and Langmiel could also say something about their old single blocks. Equally, Rockford do some interesting things with their SVS line.

Where single vineyard claims come undone is fruit in poor years coming off just one block, or that there was exceptional fruit "from one corner of the vineyard, so we put out a special release this year." I am cynical that it can be abused. There is a winery in SA with reputedly the oldest Shiraz vines known...and surprise surprise a single release has just come out.

Cheers
Craig

[Ozzie W]

I'm very wary of the simple registration of a vineyard that a producer wishes to call a 'single vineyard'. It's meaningless.

Proof by example to put the notion of a 'single vineyard' into perspective. The San Bernabe Vineyard in Monterey County California has 20 square km of contiguous vines. That's larger than the whole Côte de Nuits in Burgundy. Other than a marketing term, I don't think the term 'single vineyard' has much meaning.

There's a great article by Lisa Perrotti-Brown from 2012 which discusses this concept. She even questions if Hill of Grace is actually a 'single vineyard' wine. Very interesting reading! https://winejournal.robertparker.com/henschke-hill-of-grace

[Matt@5453]

It’s a very good topic and worthy of a discussion, but from my own personal perspective I don’t believe there is an industry or market need to pursue this. Within the current Label Integrity laws there is a fair bit of leeway for both designation of a region on the label as well as the variety composition; wine companies use this now to their advantage and cost. Craig raises a good point “Where single vineyard claims come undone is fruit in poor years coming off just one block, or that there was exceptional fruit "from one corner of the vineyard, so we put out a special release this year”. Therefore, there would need to be some scope to allow for this.

Other issues that spring to mind:

The producer of the wine does not necessarily produce the grapes or own the vineyard. Who actually owns the vineyard and the rights to use the name?

At a local and regional level, wine region bodies cannot agree on issues of designation of sub-regions and terrior as it is now. They know that they exist, but cannot agree to agree, and put in place a concrete plan; someone is always disadvantaged and something like this only adds to the debate.

Vineyards are going through re-generation and restructure all the time, Magill Estate is a good example – old vines bull dozed and new vines planted.Can a producer hang their hat on history but things then change? What does this mean to the consumer?

Then there is the value proposition, research suggests that the consumer is not overly interested in this. If the consumer was demanding it, I’d be all for it. But I don't think there is a market need.

It’s a great topic, in opening it is mentioned “potentially misleading customers”, it then begs the debate on other issues of label integrity such as producers touting the term “Old Vine”. What is old? Greater than 7 years? Then there is oak usage, oak .vs barrel maturation and so forth – the ultimate question is where does it end on label integrity?

From my perspective, business and wine businesses have a lot of compliance and regulation issues. I vote not to complicate it further.

[richard]

Please don't forget, what is the most notable single block vineyard in Australia, Grange,

[swirler]

Aren't we confusing 'single vineyard' with 'single block' wines?

[Mahmoud Ali]

Please don't forget, what is the most notable single block vineyard in Australia, Grange,

Grange is neither a single vineyard nor a single block wine, it is a muti-regional blend.

Mahmoud

[n4sir]

Please don't forget, what is the most notable single block vineyard in Australia, Grange,

Grange is neither a single vineyard nor a single block wine, it is a muti-regional blend.

Mahmoud

I think he was referring to the original Grange vineyard, being Magill Estate in suburban Adelaide.

[sjw_11]

Please don't forget, what is the most notable single block vineyard in Australia, Grange,

Grange is neither a single vineyard nor a single block wine, it is a muti-regional blend.

Mahmoud

I thought that was ironic? ... The point being the current obsession with single vineyard wines is at odds with the fact the most prized Australian wine is a multi-grape, multi-region blend made to a house style.

It is similar to some of the arguments around "natural" or orange wines.

Making wine solely from 15 sqm of grapes, fermented naturally with minimal intervention and little stabilisation will certainly produce a unique product which "speaks directly to its origins" as the marketers say. But it might also taste like cr*p.

Is the wine maker a value add performer who uses the art of blending to create a whole better than the sum of the parts, or merely a blank conduit of grapes to bottle?

[n4sir]

Aren't we confusing 'single vineyard' with 'single block' wines?

Yeah, I was thinking the same. I think it's a pretty cheap shot to even hint that Hill of Grace is somehow not a single vineyard (and to be honest surprisingly bad form by James Halliday - I would half expect this kind of bullshit from some overseas snob, but from him it's a real shock). Yeah it may be large, and there are several different blocks each with different subtle soil/terroir aspects making up the vineyard - it's basically the same for Penfolds Kalimna Vineyard, it's the same for Roger Pike's Marius vineyard, it's probably exactly the same for a number of high profile vineyards in Australia (and overseas).

The argument about trademarking regions (usually closely related to vineyards) for marketing purposes is a different matter, and to be honest one that really pisses me off. Kalimna is a place, and for the powers that be at the Southcorp/Fosters/Treasury juggernaut to trademark it to stop others using it while putting it on a label (Penfolds Bin 28) which usually has absolutely zero fruit from Kalimna smacks of hypocrisy and utter stupidity. Same with Seaview, it's a place/region named after Seaview Road in McLaren Vale, but since Rosemount moved into the old cellar door there's no McLaren Vale in the zombie Seaview label, just random crap from anywhere these days. It's an instant rebuff for someone to come up with any time we try and explain that places like the Barossa and McLaren Vale equally have genuine appellations within them, that we still do dumb shit like this.

[Ian S]

Good challenges:

Other issues that spring to mind:

The producer of the wine does not necessarily produce the grapes or own the vineyard. Who actually owns the vineyard and the rights to use the name? In the old world approach, it's effectively the region (typically via the consorzio etc. rules) that police and thus effectively own the vineyard name. They say what font size is allowed, which vineyards are allowed to be named. Few are 'monopole's so this rarely crops up. It would be an interesting challenge if someone starts overcropping a leased vineyard and the vineyard owner wants the name removed from usage by that producer, because it's devaluing their vineyard! This is possibly the biggest challenge to the Hall of fame approach, that if none of the elected vineyard owners want to play ball

At a local and regional level, wine region bodies cannot agree on issues of designation of sub-regions and terrior as it is now. They know that they exist, but cannot agree to agree, and put in place a concrete plan; someone is always disadvantaged and something like this only adds to the debate. Evidence has shown that disputes would be rife when done on a large scale - Wrattonbully and Sharefarmers/Coonawarra are recent examples

Vineyards are going through re-generation and restructure all the time, Magill Estate is a good example – old vines bull dozed and new vines planted.Can a producer hang their hat on history but things then change? What does this mean to the consumer? The same happens in the old world, and this doesn't change the 'terroir', so all ok, however some restrictions could be put in place by the consorzio etc. e.g. minimum vine age, or specified allowable grapes.

Then there is the value proposition, research suggests that the consumer is not overly interested in this. If the consumer was demanding it, I’d be all for it. But I don't think there is a market need. The regular consumers are happy with Coles / Dan Murphy, rather than Gavin Trott. They'll take their 'Long Flat' white and 'Kalimna Bin 28' from the big retailers without a thought. Should Gavin be cast adrift because the consumers don't care for more than ship it in & ship it out. There is always the 10% who value something more genuine, true of retailers and true of good producers / old vines & SV wines.

It’s a great topic, in opening it is mentioned “potentially misleading customers”, it then begs the debate on other issues of label integrity such as producers touting the term “Old Vine”. What is old? Greater than 7 years? Then there is oak usage, oak .vs barrel maturation and so forth – the ultimate question is where does it end on label integrity? Fully agree, old vine should be a controlled term, but controlling it comes at a cost. If we leave it open to the liars in marketing we'll have a 5 year old vineyard being old vines

From my perspective, business and wine businesses have a lot of compliance and regulation issues. I vote not to complicate it further. I agree there are big challenges, and starting from here it would be a massive commitment to install the whole thing in one go, hence the suggestion of starting slow via indisputable (possibly!) hall of fame approach.

[phillisc]

Ian good points re the use of names, particularly Kalimna...what next we ban the word Coonawarra or Watervale?

I was aware of the Grandfathers block for HOG but did not know of 5 other blocks, I assumed that there were just one or two more.
That said the cynic in me sees a future release of all 'six" wines (similar to the expensive exercise of three D' Arry dead arms soils project) at say 6 grand a box. Henschke's way of trumping the release of sporadic Special Bins done down the road perhaps??

Cheers
Craig.

[Ian S]

Ian good points re the use of names, particularly Kalimna...what next we ban the word Coonawarra or Watervale?

I was aware of the Grandfathers block for HOG but did not know of 5 other blocks, I assumed that there were just one or two more.
That said the cynic in me sees a future release of all 'six" wines (similar to the expensive exercise of three D' Arry dead arms soils project) at say 6 grand a box. Henschke's way of trumping the release of sporadic Special Bins done down the road perhaps??

Cheers
Craig.

I can see it now, all 6 presented in gold finished vintage replica bedpans (perfect for taking the piss)

[Waiters Friend]

I'd like to comment, not specifically on the single vineyard designation, but more generally on 'older vine' wines. I'm not being critical of any of the wineries I am about to mention, as I would make the same commercial assessment if I owned their establishments.

Tahbilk in Victoria is possibly a fabulous example. Shiraz at several price points, ranging from nearly $300 for the '1860' Shiraz through to under $10 for the 'Everyday Drinking' Shiraz. There's probably another 4 shiraz wines between these extremes. When Tahbilk was first established (in 1860) the original plantings were all there was. Then they planted some younger vines. And they have continued to expand, over time. Most of what goes into their (roughly $55 a bottle) 'Eric Purbrick' wines was planted in the 1930s. But they kept planting. According to the newsletter I received today, Tahbilk has 185 hectares planted to at least a dozen grape varieties, and the grapes are turned into wine that reflects their maturity and flavour profiles. The '1860' Shiraz is allegedly made only from the original block of vines, and the 'Eric Purbrick' wines are also apparently made from grapes on vines originating around 1933.

Tahbilk's a fairly substantial operation. But most of the smaller scale operations that exist for any length of time do this. Reserve wines made from first plantings are offered alongside cheaper offerings from younger vines in the next paddock. For wineries whose product I have been buying for years, it's disconcerting when all of a sudden a 'premium' wine is produced - what is this doing to the quality of the 'standard' wine I have been buying and cellaring for years? Does the quality of the standard wine drop? Or have the 'younger' vines now matured to the point where they supplement the original vines to make a house standard, and this allows some of the old vine material to be vinified separately? Ashbrook and Redgate (both in Margaret River) have been around since the mid 970s, and have recently released reserve wines, but not apparently at the expense of the standard models. (Yes, I've tested this!). The 'newer' vineyards are now at the level the first vineyards were.

For Hill of Grace, or other icon wines that are approximately single vineyard, the owner needs to make decisions. Do they do a Cullen (their superb $115 standard chardonnay has recently been supplemented by a $960 for four different chardonnays from the same vintage, reflecting different points in the biodynamic cycle) and continue to refine their offerings? Vineyards mature, and the Henschke's must know this better than most people on the planet. Or do they risk losing their loyal customer base at the (presumably lower) 'standard' price point by appearing to lower the quality (by introducing higher priced wines)? In the case of HOG, they have a finite land resource, so the equation will be different, and the risk higher if they decide to produce 'concentrated HOGs' based on the 6 different blocks (as proposed in an earlier thread). However, there's nothing to stop Stephen and Prue doing a Vanya and attempting something even more 'super premium'.

Cheers
Alan

[phillisc]

Ian good points re the use of names, particularly Kalimna...what next we ban the word Coonawarra or Watervale?

I was aware of the Grandfathers block for HOG but did not know of 5 other blocks, I assumed that there were just one or two more.
That said the cynic in me sees a future release of all 'six" wines (similar to the expensive exercise of three D' Arry dead arms soils project) at say 6 grand a box. Henschke's way of trumping the release of sporadic Special Bins done down the road perhaps??

Cheers
Craig.

I can see it now, all 6 presented in gold finished vintage replica bedpans (perfect for taking the piss)

Ian S, you have made my day...
We will need revisit this thread in 5-10 years as I expect it will be one of the biggest piss takes of the 21st century.

$960 for chardy set, nearly as silly as those stupid pricks who walk in the casino thinking they can turn 1 grand into 2 on the turn of a card...and then sheepishly walk away with some realisation of the folly of that decision
Cheers
Craig

[Ian S]

Are Cullen really doing that? I think that's bold in the extreme, especially with the premium being asked.

[n4sir]

Ian good points re the use of names, particularly Kalimna...what next we ban the word Coonawarra or Watervale?

I was aware of the Grandfathers block for HOG but did not know of 5 other blocks, I assumed that there were just one or two more.
That said the cynic in me sees a future release of all 'six" wines (similar to the expensive exercise of three D' Arry dead arms soils project) at say 6 grand a box. Henschke's way of trumping the release of sporadic Special Bins done down the road perhaps??

Cheers
Craig.

I can see it now, all 6 presented in gold finished vintage replica bedpans (perfect for taking the piss)

mmm, I can't really see Stephen & Prue Henschke heading down this path in a hurry, as cynical as you you I can get. They have invested so heavily in the vineyard, and so much in the Hill of Grace name, doing something like this has the potential to trash that reputation and all for what?

It's not like they backed themselves into having to do it like for example Turkey Flat, who kept the price of their shiraz so low by introducing so many new vine sources - there must be precious little from the original old buggers going into it now. Under those circumstances there's clearly room for them to yield to the temptation to introduce a super-priced release - on the other hand Hill of Grace already sells for what, $750/bottle? I don't see the need for Henschke to do it, and don't exactly see the will either. All that said, times change, people change, and decisions change...

[Mike Hawkins]

Ian good points re the use of names, particularly Kalimna...what next we ban the word Coonawarra or Watervale?

I was aware of the Grandfathers block for HOG but did not know of 5 other blocks, I assumed that there were just one or two more.
That said the cynic in me sees a future release of all 'six" wines (similar to the expensive exercise of three D' Arry dead arms soils project) at say 6 grand a box. Henschke's way of trumping the release of sporadic Special Bins done down the road perhaps??

Cheers
Craig.

I can see it now, all 6 presented in gold finished vintage replica bedpans (perfect for taking the piss)

mmm, I can't really see Stephen & Prue Henschke heading down this path in a hurry, as cynical as you you I can get. They have invested so heavily in the vineyard, and so much in the Hill of Grace name, doing something like this has the potential to trash that reputation and all for what?

It's not like they backed themselves into having to do it like for example Turkey Flat, who kept the price of their shiraz so low by introducing so many new vine sources - there must be precious little from the original old buggers going into it now. Under those circumstances there's clearly room for them to yield to the temptation to introduce a super-priced release - on the other hand Hill of Grace already sells for what, $750/bottle? I don't see the need for Henschke to do it, and don't exactly see the will either. All that said, times change, people change, and decisions change...

I couldn't see them pricing Mt Ed at $225, but it happened

[n4sir]

I couldn't see them pricing Mt Ed at $225, but it happened

Actually, in complete contrast I thought this move had been on the cards for a while. The Mount Edelstone vineyard has just as much history as HIll of Grace, and arguably should have just as much presitge - in multiple tastings where I have tried the two side by side it seemed every bit its equal (and if anything better, particularly with bottle age). Compared to HOG the Mt Ed has been a relative bargain for years, and even at $225 it probably still is considering it's still less than a third of the price of HOG (and surprisingly is still priced a lot less than the Hill of Roses).

I may be different, but I look at it like Penfolds Bin 707: that was always the Cabernet equivalent of Grange, there was absolutely no way it could continue to be priced at a third (or less) of Grange, it just had to go up one day. Like Mount Edelstone, the sudden rate it did over a few years may have been a shock, but overall the prospect that it had to rise to be priced more in line with its big brother was kind of inevitable.

[sjw_11]

Do they do a Cullen (their superb $115 standard chardonnay has recently been supplemented by a $960 for four different chardonnays from the same vintage, reflecting different points in the biodynamic cycle)

That should be cross posted into the egregious wine pricing thread... hats off to those stupid enough to pay it and could you let me know their emails as I have some excellent offers for them...

[Ian S]

FFS they're going on about flower day barrels, barrels coopered on a flower day.

How can they not think about the day on which the bottle was made? Such shocking disregard for the importance of BD. Bloody amateurs.

[mjs]

I agree, there's no standardisation of the use of single block/vineyard names. I guess that's the Australian wine industry for you.

Having stood in parts of the the HoG vineyard, including the Grandfather Block, it is indeed multi-facetted with several distinct areas and vine age. But surely we haven't got a problem with saying "HoG Vineyard".

Loved the previous comment about "Grange block

[phillisc]

Yes I agree Malcolm, not sure where that idea came from, for a wine in plentiful vintages that sees 10 000+ dozen made.
Must be one huge bloody block!
Cheers
Craig

[Cloth Ears]

I'm fairly keen on the Ten Minutes By Tractor model, where they have three strata (as they say on the website):
•Individual Vineyards (Single Vineyard Wines) within...
•Main Ridge (Estate Wines) within the...
•Mornington Peninsula (10X Wines)
And you can see them in all the detail you require. if you look in the Estate section.

But not all wineries are so transparent.

[n4sir]

Yes I agree Malcolm, not sure where that idea came from, for a wine in plentiful vintages that sees 10 000+ dozen made.
Must be one huge bloody block!
Cheers
Craig

How many cases per vintage does the typical Bordeaux first growth churn out? I am pretty sure I once heard a figure of 50,000 cases per year, that's a fair bit more than 10,000.

[phillisc]

Even bigger block then eh Ian
Cheers
Craig

[n4sir]

Even bigger block then eh Ian
Cheers
Craig

Why do I automatically think of this.....

[Matt@5453]

Are Single-Site Expressions the Future, or just a Fad?

Is Chardonnay "cool" again? Was Jura just a fad? Is natural wine the future? In the fickle world of wine, what trends matter and what is just noise?
BY JOE CZERWINSKI


The worlds of fashion and wine have a lot in common. Ownerships are intertwined, similar descriptors are used and both undergo constant change.

Shawl lapels appear on tuxes one awards season and are gone the next, just as hemlines rise and dip. And as fast as those things happen, Moscato soars and dives, replaced by Prosecco. Wine has become as much about fashion as, well, fashion.

Many of the same Napa Valley producers who made malnourished, “food-friendly” Cabernets during the 1980s went on to make overripe beasts within a decade or two. The wines still haven’t shrunk back down to 12.5% abv and pH levels of 3.5, but the fickle pendulum of style is moving back in that direction.

Remember the trendy “ABC” (Anything But Chardonnay) movement? It’s over. While American consumers have more diverse tastes than ever, Chardonnay is cool again. But big, buttery Chardonnay? As uncool as Uggs.

With the explosion of social media, the turnover in these trends has been accelerated and globalized. Those wines from the Jura made Instagram darlings by New York City sommeliers two years ago were all the rage last year in Melbourne, Australia, and are already fading in popularity there, replaced by local versions of natural wines.

Wine trends aren’t limited to the popularity of particular grape varieties, regions or winemaking techniques, like the current infatuation with whole-cluster ferments in some circles, or the use of concrete eggs in others. Jean-­Guillaume Prats, who oversees LVMH’s wine businesses, says that what he calls the Burgundian approach has become “a trend all over the world.”

What he’s referring to is the emphasis on single vineyards and away from the Bordeaux norm of a single, blended wine. Even in regions where blending has long been the practice, producers increasingly select fruit from specific plots and bottle the resulting wines on their own.

Besides the ubiquitous examples of single-vineyard Chardonnays and Pinot Noirs from Burgundy and the New World, readers can find many examples of these wines made from Cabernet Sauvignon and Syrah, or from regions as diverse as Bierzo, in Spain, Barolo, in Italy, and Châteauneuf-du-Pape, in France.

In the process, winemakers find themselves doing less, as blending options become much more limited. The goal is to let the vineyard speak, to have its voice be transmitted by the wine as clearly as possible. It’s a reflection of broad societal trends surrounding sourcing and authenticity, and it shows no sign of letting up.

http://www.winemag.com/2017/04/26/are-single-site-expressions-the-future-or-just-a-fad/

[mjs]

One thing that has struck me as being good about Wynns and their Coonawarra wines of late, is that they actually vinify them on the basis of individual blocks/vineyards, then blend them down as necessary to BL, Single Vineyard, JR etc. if you don't keep things separate at the start, its not going to happen later!!

[Mark Carrington]

I assumed Mr. Halliday was joking. Right?
When I visited HoG (& Edelstone) it met my definition of a vineyard. But what the naff do I know.