Grant Burge Meshach

[JamieBahrain]

I recall may years ago, early 90's, being at Henschke cellar door going long on Mt Edelstone and the editor of a wine magazine telling me I was better off putting my money into Grant Burge Meshach. Being impressionable, I checked out GB's cellar door. It was an arm twist to get the cellar hand to bring the good stuff out and I was lost in the range. Also, the pricing was commercial, you could hunt the wine down in my leafy inner Melbourne suburbs for less than the cellar door offerings. All in all an uninspiring experience.

Recently I've had the 1998 and 2002 on a number of occassions and I have been very impressed. Beautiful Barossa shiraz and these two vintages deliver a natural balance and a fruit shade complexity in the red spectrum which I feel delivers the best of the Barossa floor.

Anyways, of late, a number of Aussie wine investment funds have gone bust and the wines are ending up in HKG. Meshach is amongst the collateral. I've been advising friends from abroad to hook into the sales, Meshach in 1998 and 2002 is stunningly representative so you can't go wrong here with the 2002 which went quick and the other vintages. I'm not disappointed that I'll see Meshach pulled out at BBQ's and dinner parties over the coming years I'm attending as friends bring out the wines I've recommended.

Does anyone have experience or opinion of Meshach? I was checking out what the gents on winefront thought and noted it fell out of the Top 50 " Wine Ark Australia’s Most Collected Wine List " in 2016 from number 43 in 2013!

[JamieBahrain]

Grant Burge Meshach 2003- First cab off the rank in my mini-vertical is the 2003.

Nutty mocha-plum notes, Chesterfield leather aided by red fruited nuances, spicy American Oak with an overall unctuous, thick, though cleverly not over the top aromatic impact. Bold and round in the mouth, typically loaded in the style with Xmas cake and plum fruit prior a tail of cedar and herb infused grainy tannins in a linear like attachment that's fine unless the wine warms beyond room temperature.


91pts+

[Mahmoud Ali]

I have a few bottles of the ''99 Meshach but have yet to open one. The Grant Burge website is quite comprehensive and for almost all their wines they list all the reviews and awards received by vintage. Here are the scores that the 2003 Meshach received:

93 Points – Jay Miller
93 Points – Jeremy Oliver
93 Points | Harvey Steiman
93 Points – Parker Points
90 Points – James Halliday
9.2/10 – Max Crus

On the website if you click on the reviwer's name you will be shown their review. Can't believe that the wine now sells for A$155 at cellar door.

Cheers ...................... Mahmoud.

[michel]

too oak driven for me

[JamieBahrain]

OK, thanks gents, interested in forum opinions and vibes more so than critics. Meshach seems a wine that never quite made it, despite some excellent wines in my limited experience. That it was loaded up into wine investment funds and now is being dumped in Asia another indicator of a wine that probably got ahead of itself.

The 2003 showed a lot of oak Michel, but the 2002 and 1998 were better expressions- I'm not twisting your arm or anything just trying to draw comment from the forum. I remember "Nick" whos long gone off here sadly, extolling the 96 or 98 I think, as being the best shiraz out of SA.

The $155 price tag at cellar door is extraordinary. On the coal face in Asia our wines seem to be under so much pressure and I think any betrayal of the local market a great folly.

Will continue with the mini-vertical over the next few weeks. Shame that 2002 disappeared.

[Dang]

I bought three 02 Meshach in 2008 from a reputed winestore which, for whatever reason, decided to get rid of its stock of Meshach for $60 each. I remember leaving messages to my friends to go to get what was left! Apparently the owner of the store has read too many unpleasant reports.
Our son took one and we drank one about 4 years ago. It had left such a good memory that I always use it for an indication of a good full-bodied Barossa shiraz. It was just coming to age then and I always wonder about comments written when only a young wine was tasted. I had that full blast of black fruit covered in rich chocolate infused in anise, everything in perfect balance with tertiary smell and flavour. The finish was long enough to savour the fine soft tannins. There were many times that during our club blind tasting of Bordeaux and super-tuscans my wife and I stopped because our tongue was screaming of tannin challenge. Should have some Italian pasta with your wine! Well, that 10+ yo Meshach could be sipped by itself and enjoyed to the last drops.
Well I just have to decide when to drink that last bottle of 02 Meshach.
Cheers.

[JamieBahrain]

Thanks Dang.

Wonder what the punters issues were with the 2008? I did note a little "metal" in the 03 which either blew off or was submerged in the plump fruit.

[phillisc]

Jamie this is an interesting one. Always thought that GB wines are overblown certainty in the marketing department. Purchased early 90s vintages for $20 or so but now way beyond what I would call VFM. Seems this is the case with what you report from your part of the world.
Cheers Craig

[Mike Hawkins]

I've had it a number of times and equate it to Cullen DM. Looks great young and seems destined to get even better... but never actually does. Mine went to auction... and yes, lots of oak

[Mahmoud Ali]

Apparently the oak regimen shifted in 1998, from the previous 100% American oak to 80% American and 20% French. I'm hoping that my '99, from a lesser vintage, will be somewhat more restrained and with better structure. It's my '96 Octavius that has me worried.

Mahmoud.

[Ian S]

I've had it a number of times and equate it to Cullen DM. Looks great young and seems destined to get even better... but never actually does. Mine went to auction... and yes, lots of oak

Yes Cullen DM has been a real disappointment, though at least I was buying it back in the £25 a bottle days and at that level it was ok value. It's now a lot more expensive and I'd always plump for their Chardonnay instead.

[griff]

I've had it a number of times and equate it to Cullen DM. Looks great young and seems destined to get even better... but never actually does. Mine went to auction... and yes, lots of oak

Yes Cullen DM has been a real disappointment, though at least I was buying it back in the £25 a bottle days and at that level it was ok value. It's now a lot more expensive and I'd always plump for their Chardonnay instead.

Wise decision!

[Croquet King]

I've been a fan of GB Meshach for a number of years.
I think it was the 1990 that won wine or shiraz of the year and beat the 1990 Grange. That was the start of it becoming more popular and price going up.
It ages well up to about 20 years.

I had the 98 a couple of weeks ago and it was well integrated, fruit and oak all well balanced.

I picked up some of the 09 and 10 for AUD$70.

Interestingly at a langtons tasting a couple of years ago I ended up talking to Grant Burge himself for about 20 mins.
We were talking about the Meshach and comparing it to the Filsell.
His view was that most of the price difference was marketing and from the conversation he didn't seem too happy about it.
He did say the Meshach were the best barrels and had longer oak and different treatment but felt Filsell as where the value was. ($150 v $35)

[JamieBahrain]

Interestingly at a langtons tasting a couple of years ago I ended up talking to Grant Burge himself for about 20 mins.
We were talking about the Meshach and comparing it to the Filsell.
His view was that most of the price difference was marketing and from the conversation he didn't seem too happy about it.
He did say the Meshach were the best barrels and had longer oak and different treatment but felt Filsell as where the value was. ($150 v $35)

Very interesting CK . And I think what's left is a marketing disaster? The wine is being dumped in places and has lost its prestige which is probably irrecoverable.

Begs a marketing question- would it have been better to price it against Basket Press say, where it's going to have excellent value and probably drag up the rest of the range? As opposed to the current inflated price, where a modest vintage won't be defended by the punters, instead attracting widespread criticism and devaluing the rest of your range? I don't know but it has ended up being dumped at Basket Press prices anyways. I suspect at the $50 range it would have attracted a cult following.

[mse]

Hello Jamie,

I had a reply post to "what are you drinking now" about one to two years ago, I am not sure if my review is useful to you, here's the link:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14111&p=127079&hilit=meshach#p127079

[JamieBahrain]

Thanks mse. Where is Felix? He was a a drinker of vintage wine and had a great insight. Worth quoting him and I get 100% what he means with Meshach. Perhaps it's the Lyndoch sub-region? You seem to get classic shades of red fruits ( no ghastly Parker like blue fruit ) with Rick Burge's Draycott another example.

I love aged Barossa shiraz, but it is true I drink it rarely these days.
I purchased a lot of Meshach back in the early 90's, and in their youth they were very much the same as you describe. However, after 20 years, the wines have entirely shed their puppy fat, developed a degree of lean-ness and retain excellent length. Whilst not as complex as, say, a Chave Hermitage of similar age, they still are immensely satisfying wines and represent great value. And, for me a real added bonus, they unmistakably display classic Barossa terroir, a great thing in this sea of homogeneity.
T

[phillisc]

Interestingly at a langtons tasting a couple of years ago I ended up talking to Grant Burge himself for about 20 mins.
We were talking about the Meshach and comparing it to the Filsell.
His view was that most of the price difference was marketing and from the conversation he didn't seem too happy about it.
He did say the Meshach were the best barrels and had longer oak and different treatment but felt Filsell as where the value was. ($150 v $35)

Very interesting CK . And I think what's left is a marketing disaster? The wine is being dumped in places and has lost its prestige which is probably irrecoverable.

Begs a marketing question- would it have been better to price it against Basket Press say, where it's going to have excellent value and probably drag up the rest of the range? As opposed to the current inflated price, where a modest vintage won't be defended by the punters, instead attracting widespread criticism and devaluing the rest of your range? I don't know but it has ended up being dumped at Basket Press prices anyways. I suspect at the $50 range it would have attracted a cult following.

Jamie, think you have hit the nail on the head here...not just an issue for Meshach but for plenty of other producers of Barossa Shiraz, who have got way ahead of themselves. Rockford for example have been smart. A wine that I paid $15 for the 1990 would be $200+ if made at another winery, but is good value at $63, some 25 years later. Proof in the pudding (as evidenced by you) that that's where the price now sits for Meshach...haha what goes around comes around.
I don't know if its just me, but one it appears to be the norm, and two plenty it would seem do not have any issue at all with dropping $1000-1500 on a case of Barossa Shiraz.
Cheers
Craig

[n4sir]

Apparently the oak regimen shifted in 1998, from the previous 100% American oak to 80% American and 20% French. I'm hoping that my '99, from a lesser vintage, will be somewhat more restrained and with better structure. It's my '96 Octavius that has me worried.

Mahmoud.

1999 was far from a lesser vintage for Meshach - I know of some who used to work for Grant Burge (including Mark "Marbles" Conroy) who thought it was the best one they ever made. In magnum form it looked pretty spectacular in a vertical dinner a couple of years ago:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14734&p=127284

I should also quickly mention I tried the 1993 vintage again a few weeks ago, it looked a lot better than at the vertical, albeit in different company.

Cheers,
Ian

[Mahmoud Ali]

Apparently the oak regimen shifted in 1998, from the previous 100% American oak to 80% American and 20% French. I'm hoping that my '99, from a lesser vintage, will be somewhat more restrained and with better structure. It's my '96 Octavius that has me worried.

1999 was far from a lesser vintage for Meshach - I know of some who used to work for Grant Burge (icluding Mark "marbles" Conroy) who thought it was the best one they ever made. In magnum form it looked pretty spectacular in a vertical dinner a couple of years ago:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14734&p=127284.

Good to hear that the '99 Meshach is well thought of and presented well as recently as 2015 - and thanks for the link. It just goes to show that vintages themselves are not as important as make them out to be.

Mahmoud.

[JamieBahrain]

It was great to have the Meshach as my school night the house wine for the last week and a bit. I drank the 2001, 2004 an 2005 as well as the originally posted 2003.The label has indisputably been cruelled by marketing and to have it dumped on Asian premium wine markets will never see the Middle Kingdom as the label's saviour !It must be landing at near $30 Aussie a bottle which should send shivers in the Australian wine scene.

I enjoyed the wine. And complaints about the oak regime were noted and I found in the case of the 2005 especially, next day drinking brought better balance and fruit oak absorption toward that pleasant Barossan Xmas cake, leather and plum indulgence.The 2001 was well crafted though lacked intensity and the 2004 was good though lacked a super premium spark.

I suppose, to put it into context, the wine is arriving cheaper than Basket Press though for mine, Meshach lacks the drinking experience and wow of that wine which too, is facing its own challenges.

[n4sir]

It was great to have the Meshach as my school night the house wine for the last week and a bit. I drank the 2001, 2004 an 2005 as well as the originally posted 2003.The label has indisputably been cruelled by marketing and to have it dumped on Asian premium wine markets will never see the Middle Kingdom as the label's saviour !It must be landing at near $30 Aussie a bottle which should send shivers in the Australian wine scene.

Considering Grant Burge was brought out by Accolade Wines (effectively run by a private equity firm), it wouldn't surprise me if they would try and sneakily dump back vintages cheaply overseas to try and generate cash flow. I don't think the rest of the Australian wine scene would be exactly happy about it, but I'm not sure they would think it's a huge deal for them either given the circumstances.

I have also noticed locally Meshach (and Shadrach) being added as "bonus" bottles for some mixed dozens from the big chains - it's another way of Accolade attempting to quietly move some back vintage stocks locally without hitting the labels' full retail value in Australia.

[JamieBahrain]

Perhaps you are correct Ian, it could entirely be a wine investment fund gone bust as well. But premium labels getting dumped up here have included Cullens, Domaine A and Tahbilk.

[Mahmoud Ali]

Here in Edmonton, I've seen the Meshach range in price from C$100 to $170, with vintages from 2000 to 2004. The C$100 was for the 2003. Certainly an an opportunity for those who want back vintages.

Mahmoud.

[Dragzworthy]

These are indeed being dumped. I've just picked up some 2003 via auction. Anyone know how much longer the life of these would be..? Cellar tracker suggests drink by 2017 but I was under the impression that these had a Long cellar life...

[Mahmoud Ali]

Jamie has a note on the '03 Meshach at the top of the thread and though he doesn't mention longevity it certainly doesn't sound like it is in need of drinking. Jeremy Oliver's latest annual/guide suggests a drinking window of 2011 to 2015 for the '03 Meshach (and a score of 93 if that has any importance) however I have a tendency to use the end of a drinking window as my starting point. Jeremy Oliver has my '99 Mesach as 2007 to 2011 but I'm nowhere near worried.

Perhaps dumped is the wrong word for wines bought at auction, maybe the wine is overpriced and the auction price is the true value. Out of curiosity, what did the '03 Meshach go for at auction?

Mahmoud.

[Dragzworthy]

Jamie has a note on the '03 Meshach at the top of the thread and though he doesn't mention longevity it certainly doesn't sound like it is in need of drinking. Jeremy Oliver's latest annual/guide suggests a drinking window of 2011 to 2015 for the '03 Meshach (and a score of 93 if that has any importance) however I have a tendency to use the end of a drinking window as my starting point. Jeremy Oliver has my '99 Mesach as 2007 to 2011 but I'm nowhere near worried.

Perhaps dumped is the wrong word for wines bought at auction, maybe the wine is overpriced and the auction price is the true value. Out of curiosity, what did the '03 Meshach go for at auction?

Mahmoud.

Thanks for pointing out the note, I read days back and then came back to the thread without re reading. It does sound as though it has a year or two left only though...

And you're right, dumped was probably a bit harsh - was going alongside an '03 Katnook Odyssey. I picked up 6 bottles of the Meshach at 40 per bottle and the Katnook at 30. They seemed cheap but I'll need a few friends to help, can't imagine the Katnook has much life left from what I'm reading.

[Mahmoud Ali]

Those are excellent prices Drazworthy, well done. I looked up wine searcher (not the pro version) and see that the lowest price for the Meshach is $75 in Singapore (2003/04/05 vintage) and $80 in Singapore (2002 vintage). Meanwhile the '03 Odyssey is $65 in Singapore and $100 in Hong Kong.

Strangely enough Katnook Estate is not in Jeremy Oliver's guide. I wonder why because it certainly was in earlier editions.

Mahmoud.

[Edited for typos]

[JamieBahrain]

Had a scalped 2002 Meshach last night which was disappointing as I put my reputation on this wine as a recommendation for heaps of friends in Hong Kong where it retails for $50 AUD.

[Mahmoud Ali]

Sorry to hear about the 2002 Meshach, as it was just that one bottle your reputation will likely remain intact. As for it being A$50 in HK, it suggests that there certainly might be an advantage to subscribing to the pro-version of Wine Searcher, or else on-line retailers are more expensive.

Mahmoud.

[JamieBahrain]

Wine searcher saves me thousands of dollars a year but it isn't without its limitations, including an accidental price inflation of sorts for wines that are scarce for a variety of reasons.

The extent of discounting of some Australian wines on international markets is now moving beyond a couple of wine investment funds going bust.