Australian Vintage Variability

[Dragzworthy]

Hello
Fairly new to collecting wine but have built up a 500ish bottle collection in just over a year without too much trouble. I realise that I have probably too much 2012 and 2013 vintage wine out of the fact that I started in the last year and wines available in shop are generally of this vintage period (at least in the case of Aussie wine). My aim from here is NOT to backfill older vintages as I'm keen to develop a Long lasting cellar for the next 30yrs so will concentrate on just buying a bit each year from here onwards.

Questions I have would be.... how do you all rate the 2012 and 2013 vintages in Australia? I'm primarily Long Cabernet Sauvignon, Bordeaux style blends, Shiraz blends from the Margaret River and Coonawarra regions.
I've probably gone too hard too quick but from what I read, these regions have had reasonably good years...but perhaps this is less important in Australia as opposed to the Old World? It doesn't seem as though it receives as much attention as a point of discussion .

Thoughts welcome! Cheers!

[Rocky]

Dragzworthy

Congratulations on your bullish start to wine collecting. To state the obvious you have put a majority of your eggs in the one basket.
Don't forget to add good rieslings, chardies and pinots in order to balance out the cellar as I can almost guarantee a wine drinkers palate changes over time and there's nothing worse than being stuck with 100s of bottles of big Barossa shiraz when you start enjoying the pinot or Burgundy journey.

Specifically to your question, I have found that the Margaret River vintages have been relatively consistent over the past (since 2007) 8 years as opposed to the Eastern states which have been more variable. Halliday has a good vintage summary page on his website for Australian vintages. I can't comment on the Old world wines but direct you to the US WineBerserkers forum where there will be ample of information.

Regards

[Polymer]

I've probably gone too hard too quick but from what I read, these regions have had reasonably good years...but perhaps this is less important in Australia as opposed to the Old World? It doesn't seem as though it receives as much attention as a point of discussion

Equally as significant as far as variability...the difference is AU wine doesn't have the variable pricing that Bordeaux has..in fact, I'm not sure any other region prices out quite like Bordeaux although you will see a big difference in Burgundy but that's more or less because by the time you get it, its passed through so many different hands and the demand outstrips supply significantly....

Keep in mind, good years tend to be "ripe" years...so they'll make them to last a bit longer...although it doesn't necessarily make for a better wine or for a wine you prefer (although they'll age for longer).

[Benchmark]

I would take a leaf out of forum member Ozzie's purchasing system-

Varied and eclectic.

It's easy to fall in love with Cabernet and Shiraz, fill your cellar.... Fifteen years later all you are drinking Burgundy and Barolo.

The palate is constantly changing.

I am sure those Cabernet's will be great in time, but keep an open mind.

[Dragzworthy]

Thanks for the responses.
I guess my thinking was "2012/13 is seemingly a 'good year' and therefore even if I go hard, I can put the wines down for cellaring and consume them over 20-30yrs which means I buy a lot now and I don't have to later".

Here's the current list of Aussie stock:

Quantity Vintage Wine Producer
1 2012 Wendouree Cabernet Sauvignon Clare Valley Wendouree
1 2013 Wendouree Cabernet Sauvignon Clare Valley Wendouree
6 2013 Vasse Felix Cabernet Sauvignon Vasse Felix
6 2012 St Hugo Cabernet Sauvignon St Hugo
6 2014 Wynns Coonawarra Estate Cabernet Sauvignon Black Label Wynns Coonawarra Estate
6 2013 Moss Wood Cabernet Sauvignon Moss Wood Vineyard Moss Wood
1 2012 Woodlands Cabernet Sauvignon Thomas Woodlands
1 2012 Moss Wood Cabernet Sauvignon Moss Wood Vineyard Moss Wood
6 2013 Penfolds Bin 389 Penfolds
1 2014 Moorooduc Estate Chardonnay Estate Moorooduc Estate
1 2014 Coldstream Hills Chardonnay Reserve Coldstream Hills
1 2013 Oakridge Chardonnay 864 Funder & Diamond Vineyard Drive Block Oakridge
1 2014 Paradigm Hill Pinot Noir L'ami Sage Paradigm Hill
1 2015 Pooley Pinot Noir Butchers Hill Pooley
1 2014 Cullen Wines Diana Madeline Cullen Wines
7 2013 Yarra Yering Dry Red N°1 Yarra Yering
1 2012 Petaluma Coonawarra Petaluma
6 2012 Petaluma Cabernet Merlot Coonawarra Petaluma
6 2013 Woodlands "Margaret" Woodlands
6 2013 Torbreck The Steading Torbreck
1 2016 Pikes Riesling Reserve The Merle Pikes
1 2016 Grosset Riesling Polish Hill Clare Valley Grosset
6 2014 De Bortoli Noble One Botrytis Sémillon De Bortoli
6 2012 Best's Great Western Shiraz Bin No 0 Best's Great Western
1 2013 Penfolds Shiraz St. Henri Penfolds
7 2012 Henschke Euphonium Keyneton Estate Henschke
1 2013 Jamsheed Syrah Seville Vineyard Jamsheed

Any advice on Cabernets/Bordeaux blends which I look be looking for? I don't have heaps of monster Shiraz (yet!)

And yes - I think I do need some Riesling in there. I just bought my first two bottles (consumption, not for cellaring) as a test.

[Dragzworthy]

I would take a leaf out of forum member Ozzie's purchasing system-

Varied and eclectic.

It's easy to fall in love with Cabernet and Shiraz, fill your cellar.... Fifteen years later all you are drinking Burgundy and Barolo.

The palate is constantly changing.

I am sure those Cabernet's will be great in time, but keep an open mind.

Thanks! Scary thing is that I also have a decent amount of Barolo.
The thing I've refrained from buying is Burgundy - I just find it overpriced and I haven't loved what I've tasted thus far... but yes, I do recognise this could change (I hope it doesn't for the sake of my bank account). The best pinot I've ever tasted was a Paringa, completely eclipsed the expensive Gevrey-Chambertins I've tasted.

[Ian S]

Ah, not as bad as feared. That's about 90 bottles of Aussies, not 500.

Good news: There is some variety of regions / wine styles and plenty of those will age long enough to insure against all but a complete palate re-alignment. There are some to drink earlier, so you're not just sitting on unready bottles.

Bad news: Wot no Hunter Shiraz? Time to introduce you to the leather Ditto Hunter Semillon, new era (for Australia) grapes such as Tempranillo, Nebbiolo, Aglianico, and so on, Get sampling! How do you know you'll like aged versions of these wines without trying aged versions . That comment is a bit rich coming from me, because I bought in a similar way, but when the opportunity came to backfill at retail or auction, I didn't hesitate. "To ignore the past is to be blind in one eye, to ignore the future is to be blind in both". Don't be one-eyed! Palates change, so don't end up with so much of a specific wine that it's a chore to work through it. "Wine, wine everywhere nor any drop to drink!" - if you go to the cellar and think "there is nothing ready to drink", then you really do need to do some backfilling.

I'm conscious I've not answered the vintage questions. Others are much better placed to answer than me. However vintage definitely matters, but if you don't believe this I've got some prestige 2006 Margaret River reds I'll begrudgingly let go at a price, plus some lovely smoky 2007 Yarra reds which I could be persuaded to sell. Joke - I have neither, but they evidence how vintage effects can be extreme.

One other aspect of vintage that you've not yet explored (by god I don't want to encourage you to buy more, but...) is different vintages of the same wine. This can appeal to the geek in us, but when we find a wine we like, vintage matters less. The house style is important and the vintage merely gives subtle variation on the theme.

I hope this helps

regards
Ian

[Mahmoud Ali]

Here is what Jancis Robinson has to say about recent South Australian vintages:

2015 - Bush fires in the Adelaide Hills area may result in some smoke-tainted wines. Coonawarra had a warm spring but a cooler summer allowing for slow development and notably high tannin in the Cabernet Sauvignon. Barossa Shiraz enjoyed an excellent vintage while Clare Valley growers are enthusiastic about the quality of their Riesling.

2014 - Extreme weather conditions are increasingly normal for Australia, and 2014 saw everything from frost to high winds to heatwaves. Yields were lower than usual and while nobody is claiming it is a great vintage, quality is generally reliable across varieties.

2013 - The hottest summer ever for South Eastern Australia and yields were well down but the vine proved itself relatively resistant to the record temperatures with many varieties ripening in an unusually short period.

2012 - Lower-than-average yields in Australia, as across much of Europe. This was blamed on high winds, drought and low fruitfulness resulting from the poor 2011 vintage. Quality, however, was much better than in the exceptionally damp 2011, with South Australia avoiding some of the weather extremes experienced by other states. Strong varietal typicality is a commonly cited feature of the 2012 crop.

Benchmark's comment about “varied and eclectic” is right on the money.

Palate change is often cited as a reason to diversify one's collection but I think as a mantra it is over used. Sure there are extreme styles of which one may tire, but from what I see in your list one would never tire of drinking a well aged example of any of them. More important, I think, is the fact that as one journeys along the vinuous trail one comes to appreciate and enjoy other wines. Soon one wants to drink and collect these wines and over time the collection gets broader. This has nothing to do with being tired of the wines already in the collection, it is really just a matter of being in a bigger wine store as it were.

Also important is the fact that with wine collecting comes food pairing and as wines get older this consideration becomes paramount. Sharing wine with friends over dinner becomes the place where cellared bottles are shared and appreciated. It doesn’t take long for a person to realize that with different foods being served the wines need to be varied. Steak and BBQ ribs are fine for big young wines but with a varied cuisine and multiple courses comes a need for different wines. Someone will serve you an aged Chianti Reserva or a Chateauneuf-du-Pape, a Rioja Gran Reserva or maybe even a Taurasi and you will wish you had some in your cellar instead of always drinking an Aussie Cab or Shiraz. It will start to become tiresome, but not because the wines you have are not any good. Variety will truley become the spice of life.

Then there is the need for wines to go with a soup or seafood course. Chardonnay can work sometimes but not always. Again, a fine old Riesling or Semillon, or Grand Cru Alsace will have you craving for bottles of your own. In the same way you should also consider Champagnes and sparkling wines, and other dessert wines like port, madeira, and even sherry.

I like the selection you have listed and am pretty certain you will not tire of having them in your collection. I know I would be happy to have any of these in my cellar though preferably a lot older. I am surprised though that you don't have a few older vintages because even today I am able to find the odd back vintage, like some ’06 Noble One that I bought only a week ago. I even found an '04 and '06 St Henri a few months ago.

Oh, and one more thing, with time I have come to realize that with good wines from top producers, the vintage hardly matters. In fact they generally will drink superbly far sooner than the so-called better vintages. I recall quite some time ago hearing retailers talking about much better the '97 Australian wines were drinking compared to the '98s. So you just never know.

Cheers ..................... Mahmoud.

[Ozzie W]

Some great advice above. I also went long on Aussie wines from the 2012 vintage as this coincided with me starting my cellar a few years ago. I was eager to start filling up my cellar so I bought heaps of Shiraz from the 2012 and 2013 vintages. I love diversity in my wines, so most of my purchases were/are 1-3 bottles. I seldom buy a case of anything. I'd rather have a "deep" cellar than a "wide" one.

2011 was a disaster vintage for the east coast of Australia (excluding Hunter). Everything since 2012 has been pretty much great everywhere. Looking at your Aussie purchases, you certainly won't go wrong with anything from 2012-2015.

My palate changed rather quickly after attending lots of offlines and being exposed to many different styles of wine. 3 years ago I only bought Aussie wines. Now about 40% of my purchases are from the old world. I also stopped buying Shiraz altogether a few months ago. It's not that I don't like it any more, but these days I'd rather be drinking Barolo, Mt Etna, Burgundy, Rioja, Cabernet or Pinot. I've got enough Shiraz to last me 25 years if I consume 10 bottles a year. I'm well on my way to having more Pinot in my cellar than Shiraz .

I'd buy a lot more from Burgundy and Bordeaux if they weren't so darn expensive. Right now I'm focusing my old world purchases on wines from Italy and to a lesser extent Spain. This is where I see value right now.

Dragzworthy, my advice to you would be to attend lots of offlines where you'll get to try heaps of different wine styles. The earlier you figure out where your palate is heading the better. If it weren't for the offlines, I'd probably have 700 bottles of Shiraz in my cellar .

[Red Smurf]

which means I buy a lot now and I don't have to later".

Many on here would have a quiet giggle at that.
I buy more than ever right now.

That list of Aussie wines looks pretty good but I would also start tasting and buying what you like from other grape varieties from OZ as Ian suggested. We are just starting to see what we can produce from other varieties now the vines are getting older and it will only get better.
On vintage variation, I would definitely not just stick to a couple of vintages. Like for example hunter 11's for drinking soon while you wait for 14's in 20 plus years. If you had all 14's, what are you going to drink until they are ready.

[Dragzworthy]

Ah, not as bad as feared. That's about 90 bottles of Aussies, not 500.

Good news: There is some variety of regions / wine styles and plenty of those will age long enough to insure against all but a complete palate re-alignment. There are some to drink earlier, so you're not just sitting on unready bottles.

Bad news: Wot no Hunter Shiraz? Time to introduce you to the leather Ditto Hunter Semillon, new era (for Australia) grapes such as Tempranillo, Nebbiolo, Aglianico, and so on, Get sampling! How do you know you'll like aged versions of these wines without trying aged versions . That comment is a bit rich coming from me, because I bought in a similar way, but when the opportunity came to backfill at retail or auction, I didn't hesitate. "To ignore the past is to be blind in one eye, to ignore the future is to be blind in both". Don't be one-eyed! Palates change, so don't end up with so much of a specific wine that it's a chore to work through it. "Wine, wine everywhere nor any drop to drink!" - if you go to the cellar and think "there is nothing ready to drink", then you really do need to do some backfilling.

I'm conscious I've not answered the vintage questions. Others are much better placed to answer than me. However vintage definitely matters, but if you don't believe this I've got some prestige 2006 Margaret River reds I'll begrudgingly let go at a price, plus some lovely smoky 2007 Yarra reds which I could be persuaded to sell. Joke - I have neither, but they evidence how vintage effects can be extreme.

One other aspect of vintage that you've not yet explored (by god I don't want to encourage you to buy more, but...) is different vintages of the same wine. This can appeal to the geek in us, but when we find a wine we like, vintage matters less. The house style is important and the vintage merely gives subtle variation on the theme.

I hope this helps

regards
Ian

Haha thanks Ian - I actually could use a bit of advice on some Hunter Shiraz and Semillon - any specific vintages/makers I should be looking for?
Ditto on the 'new era' grapes...I'm not well versed at all.
I guess going forward perhaps my strategy will be to buy mixed cases in future vintages/and on back fill of existing wine...? Could be an idea

[Dragzworthy]

Some great advice above. I also went long on Aussie wines from the 2012 vintage as this coincided with me starting my cellar a few years ago. I was eager to start filling up my cellar so I bought heaps of Shiraz from the 2012 and 2013 vintages. I love diversity in my wines, so most of my purchases were/are 1-3 bottles. I seldom buy a case of anything. I'd rather have a "deep" cellar than a "wide" one.

2011 was a disaster vintage for the east coast of Australia (excluding Hunter). Everything since 2012 has been pretty much great everywhere. Looking at your Aussie purchases, you certainly won't go wrong with anything from 2012-2015.

My palate changed rather quickly after attending lots of offlines and being exposed to many different styles of wine. 3 years ago I only bought Aussie wines. Now about 40% of my purchases are from the old world. I also stopped buying Shiraz altogether a few months ago. It's not that I don't like it any more, but these days I'd rather be drinking Barolo, Mt Etna, Burgundy, Rioja, Cabernet or Pinot. I've got enough Shiraz to last me 25 years if I consume 10 bottles a year. I'm well on my way to having more Pinot in my cellar than Shiraz .

I'd buy a lot more from Burgundy and Bordeaux if they weren't so darn expensive. Right now I'm focusing my old world purchases on wines from Italy and to a lesser extent Spain. This is where I see value right now.

Dragzworthy, my advice to you would be to attend lots of offlines where you'll get to try heaps of different wine styles. The earlier you figure out where your palate is heading the better. If it weren't for the offlines, I'd probably have 700 bottles of Shiraz in my cellar .

The scary thing is that I've actually gone large on the French stuff - and its all futures (en primeur) - largely because my baby was born in 2015:

France 74.8% Bottles (104) / Pending (222) Average vintage 2014.0
Bordeaux 52.8% Bottles (8) / Pending (222) Average vintage 2014.8
Rhône 19.7% Bottles (86) / Average vintage 2011.7
Burgundy 2.3% Bottles (10) / Average vintage 2014.0
Australia 20.4% Bottles (83) / Pending (6) / Average vintage 2012.9
South Australia 9.9% Bottles (43) / Average vintage 2012.8
Western Australia 4.8% Bottles (21) / Average vintage 2013.0
Victoria 4.1% Bottles (18) / Average vintage 2012.8
New South Wales 1.4% Bottles (0) / Pending (6) Average vintage 2014.0
Tasmania 0.2% Bottles (1) / Average vintage 2015.0
Italy 3.4% Bottles (15) / Average vintage 2010.7
Piedmont 1.6% Bottles (7) / Average vintage 2010.1
Latium 0.9% Bottles (4) / Average vintage 2011.5
Lombardia 0.2% Bottles (1) / / Average vintage 2013.0
Trentino-Alto Adige 0.2% Bottles (1) / Average vintage 2012.0
Puglia 0.2% Bottles (1) / Average vintage 2007.0
Abruzzi 0.2% Bottles (1) / Average vintage 2012.0
Spain 1.4% Bottles (6) / Average vintage 2013.0
Catalunya 1.4% Bottles (6) / Average vintage 2013.0

So I may need to go larger on Italian/Spanish wines going forward. I'm not concerned on being heavy in 2015 vintage France as I'm buying those for the long long haul on emotional/irrational reasons.

[Mike Hawkins]

which means I buy a lot now and I don't have to later".

Many on here would have a quiet giggle at that.
I buy more than ever right now.

And then there are those that don't buy more bottles. They just buy more expensive ones

[Ian S]

Plenty more in France besides Bdx, Rhone and Burg. definitely a risk here of having the classic Englishman's cellar, but missing out on some fun stuff. Do get some Port though, you're letting the side down old chap!

Italy is big, and takes time to get a feel for it. FWIW I think that's a really sensible size 'starter case', though Tuscany is worth exploring (Chianti a very good starting point - go Brunello if you find it weedy, go Vino Nobile if you find it too rich). In Veneto: Easy to like Valpolicella and Soave has come on in leaps and bounds. Amarone for more contemplative drinking - or a supercharged experience.

A nice idea to treat other regions as you have Piemonte. Get a mixed case and taste, buy stuff of a similar style to what you liked.

A question: What are you drinking whilst waiting for the wine to be delivered / mature?

[winetastic]

Haha thanks Ian - I actually could use a bit of advice on some Hunter Shiraz and Semillon - any specific vintages/makers I should be looking for?

On the Hunter front, its hard to go wrong with Tyrrell's: Vat 9 Shiraz and Vat 1 Semillon are benchmark wines which are widely available and will improve significantly with a long sleep in the cellar. Other noteworthy producers that are widely available include Mount Pleasant and Keith Tulloch.

Recent vintage wise, for Shiraz I really like the following for different reasons: 2006, 2007, 2009, 2014.

For Hunter Semillon, most recent vintages other than 2008 and 2012 have been good to great.

[Duncan Disorderly]

Any advice on Cabernets/Bordeaux blends which I look be looking for?

I'd be looking for some Margaret River cabernet from 2014. As a previous post notes the vintages have been pretty good in MR since '07, but 2014 was very good.

The other thing I'd look closely at is some Canberra shiraz. 2015 was a very good year, and either some Clonakilla or Ravensworth Shiraz Viognier or Clonakilla's O'Riada would be a worthy addition (as would the 2013 Collector Reserve).

While I agree with other posters about having more variation in your cellar, it's easier said than done. If your not a pinot drinker now, then you can have a punt, but who knows if you'll like them in years to come. That said list above looks pretty good. They are all very drinkable wines and should cellar well given proper conditions. The thing about vintages is that many people get wrapped up in them as a guide of what to buy, but sometimes it's great to have a vertical of a particular wine so you get to appreciate what different conditions can mean for a wine. I've enjoyed many wines from unfashionable vintages and conversely disliked wines from more feted ones. Still it's all fun and games at the end of the day.

[paulf]

Any advice on Cabernets/Bordeaux blends which I look be looking for?

I'd be looking for some Margaret River cabernet from 2014. As a previous post notes the vintages have been pretty good in MR since '07, but 2014 was very good.

I'm pretty happy having 2012 Cabernet in particular from Coonawarra but as Duncan points out Margaret River hasn't had a bad vintage for a decade. Having said that, the feeling I get when I put everything together that I have heard is that the 2014s may be as good as any in that period.

Nobody has talked much about Riesling recommendations yet. Both 2015 and 2016 were pretty decent years. Right now, if I had money to be spending on 2016s, I'd be buying the Mount Horrocks. Judging by the 2016 Young Vines which was spectacular, I'm also expecting great things from the standard 2016 Crawford River when it is released. There is so much good riesling about at great prices. Clare and Eden are great but don't be afraid to look at Canberra, Great Southern or Tasmaina either.

If you are looking for something to put away for the baby, I'm about 95% certain that 2015 will be a generally declared year for Vintage Port in Portugal. We won't know for certain until late April, but the indications are strong.

[rooman]

The Clonakilla SV is the best shiraz produced in Australia. The 2015 is apparently stunning but it takes a min of 10 years to hit its straps, especially in good years.

If your child was born in 2015 then you and potentially he are lucky. 2015 in Bordeaux is supposed to be an excellent vintage. Mine was born in 2005 and I put away cases and cases of Bordeaux excluding first growths. I love celebrating Xmas and birthdays with a wine from the year the kids were born and they get a really treat out of it as well.

The rest of the list look well balanced bar the lack of riesling. Just grab cases and throw them in the cellar. Personally I'd grab 2 cases of the Grosset Springvale 2015. You will end up drinking one bottle a year over Xmas and love it. Remember Aus is too hot for reds for 3-4 months a year so riesling is a great alternative for aging. Also Seppelts Drumborg, Leo Buring Leonay, Pikes Merle, Frankland Estate Isolation Ridge, Castle Rock. You can never have too much riesling or start collecting it too early.

[Redav]

There's plenty of good advice in here. I'll certainly learn more than I can add. The only thing I can say is;

2011 was a disaster vintage for the east coast of Australia (excluding Hunter).

Irrespective of 'whether a vintage is good' or bad', you can and probably will still find good wine that you will enjoy. Maybe they won't have the legs of an exceptional vintage and maybe the style might be a little different but maybe that won't matter.

Each to their own but I enjoyed the 2011 of Rockford's Rifle Range more than any other from 2008 - 2014 and we absolutely loved their Basket Press Shiraz from that year too.

[Redback]

Thanks for the responses.

Any advice on Cabernets/Bordeaux blends which I look be looking for? I don't have heaps of monster Shiraz (yet!)

And yes - I think I do need some Riesling in there. I just bought my first two bottles (consumption, not for cellaring) as a test.

One Bordeaux Blend that you may want to consider is the Lakes Folly Cabernets. An iconic wine from the Hunter Valley, the current 2014 vintage is a pearler.

Another wine I would recommend is the Yalumba Signature, a classic Australian/Shiraz blend. Jeremy Oliver has suggested a drinking window out to 2042 for the 2012 vintage.

Australian Riesling also has its own style compared to Alsace and Mosel and offers great value. In addition to some of the names suggested, I also enjoy those produced by Henschke, Pewsey Vale and Clonakilla.

[Ozzie W]

There's plenty of good advice in here. I'll certainly learn more than I can add. The only thing I can say is;

2011 was a disaster vintage for the east coast of Australia (excluding Hunter).

Irrespective of 'whether a vintage is good' or bad', you can and probably will still find good wine that you will enjoy. Maybe they won't have the legs of an exceptional vintage and maybe the style might be a little different but maybe that won't matter.

Each to their own but I enjoyed the 2011 of Rockford's Rifle Range more than any other from 2008 - 2014 and we absolutely loved their Basket Press Shiraz from that year too.

There are always exceptions in bad vintages. Good producers often still produce great wines in bad vintages. That's the sign of a great winemaker. I still vividly remember the 2011 Best's Bin 1 which won the Jimmy Watson trophy. It was a fabulous wine upon release, but it won't last as long as Bin 1 does in good vintages.

[TravisW]

There's plenty of good advice in here. I'll certainly learn more than I can add. The only thing I can say is;

2011 was a disaster vintage for the east coast of Australia (excluding Hunter).

Irrespective of 'whether a vintage is good' or bad', you can and probably will still find good wine that you will enjoy. Maybe they won't have the legs of an exceptional vintage and maybe the style might be a little different but maybe that won't matter.

Each to their own but I enjoyed the 2011 of Rockford's Rifle Range more than any other from 2008 - 2014 and we absolutely loved their Basket Press Shiraz from that year too.

There are always exceptions in bad vintages. Good producers often still produce great wines in bad vintages. That's the sign of a great winemaker. I still vividly remember the 2011 Best's Bin 1 which won the Jimmy Watson trophy. It was a fabulous wine upon release, but it won't last as long as Bin 1 does in good vintages.

Exactomundo. We got smashed here in Canberra in 2011 but Alex McKay reckons that his Collector Reserve Shiraz from that year will be one for the cellar. Having tried it I would have to agree.

On another point, try not to get to pedantic re the cellar. Enjoy putting it together and enjoy drinking it as well! Cheers.

[Polymer]

Its not just making a 'great' wine in a 'poor' vintage..in some cases, stylistically it will be 'better' for someone that the great vintages...

There were plenty of 2011s winemakers were apologizing for..that in my head I thought "Why, that's what it should be like". Like Pinots that were actually lighter in color vs. a deep dark color...I really thought "why can't you make it like this normally?".

[Mahmoud Ali]

There are always exceptions in bad vintages. Good producers often still produce great wines in bad vintages. That's the sign of a great winemaker. I still vividly remember the 2011 Best's Bin 1 which won the Jimmy Watson trophy. It was a fabulous wine upon release, but it won't last as long as Bin 1 does in good vintages.

Then there was the 1999 vintage where the quality was such that Best's didn't make either the Bin 0 nor the Thompson Family Reserve but rather used the limited amount of good fruit best fruit to make a wine called 'FHT' that apparently was a cracker. I had already bought some 1998 Shiraz, the Bin 0, Taltarni, and Tyrrell's Brokenback, so passed it up much to my regret.

Mahmoud.

[Dragzworthy]

Thanks for this, really appreciate all the insights! Sounds like I need to:

1. Stop buying so much of one wine in one vintage, spread it out so that I can compare wine on a verticle.
2. Buy some more Riesling (Yes - I only have 6 bottles) and Semillon
3. Buy some Hunter Valley Shiraz and some Clonakilla

I actually think Best's make the best Shiraz in the country... but Hey i haven't tasted that darn Clonakilla yet (or anything super Torbreck).

Keep in mind that 95% of what I have is kept in Australia and I'm living in Singapore. So a lot of what I'm buying is on word of mouth or actually what I read on here (!) and I don't have ready access to taste a lot of the wines. I usually drink more Italian wine at home as that's more readily accessible...I find it difficult to buy for my storage facility in Australia as the cost is so much higher for the same thing (strange isn't it).

[Ian S]

Then there was the 1999 vintage where the quality was such that Best's didn't make either the Bin 0 nor the Thompson Family Reserve but rather used the limited amount of good fruit best fruit to make a wine called 'FHT' that apparently was a cracker.

Hi Mahmoud
I have 3 bottles left, from a dozen bought on or near release. I went through the 1st half a little too quickly, latest bottle opened Jun 2015 so I probably should pop another this year. Do you ever travel over here?

Hi Dragz
Yes a very good, but almost under the radar producer. I'd love to taste at the cellar door, as it's not just the Shiraz I've enjoyed, but also the Cabernet Sauvignon (which I like a lot), Cabernet Franc and the Riesling. IIRC they do a lot of small batch wines from the nursery vineyard / trial plantings.

[Michael McNally]

The Clonakilla SV is the best shiraz produced in Australia. The 2015 is apparently stunning but it takes a min of 10 years to hit its straps, especially in good years.

Big call!

Cheers

Michael

[rooman]

The Clonakilla SV is the best shiraz produced in Australia. The 2015 is apparently stunning but it takes a min of 10 years to hit its straps, especially in good years.

Big call!

Cheers

Michael

I was amazed until now that everyone let that one through to the keeper. It is the only shiraz I collect religiously but everyone has different tastes. Your number one would be?

Mark

[Michael McNally]

The Clonakilla SV is the best shiraz produced in Australia. The 2015 is apparently stunning but it takes a min of 10 years to hit its straps, especially in good years.

Big call!

Cheers

Michael

I was amazed until now that everyone let that one through to the keeper. It is the only shiraz I collect religiously but everyone has different tastes. Your number one would be?

Mark

My price range tops out around $40 per bottle if I am buying 4-8 to cellar, so can't really comment outside that range.

Best Shiraz in that price range IMHO are Marius Symphony and/or Simpatico in most vintages and Wild Duck Creek Estate Springflat Shiraz. Consistency, complexity, interest, power, length. The WDCE is right at the limit of my tolerance for BIG wine, but the balance is always there.

On the Clonakilla, I have tried that a few times and once been wowed and once been overpowered by apricots! That said, the O'Riada Shiraz is consistently a wow wine for me and I keep meaning to get some to put away.

Best new Shiraz I tried last year was the Spinifex La Maline. At $65 it is outside my price range, but I still bought three.

Cheers

Michael

[winetastic]

I was amazed until now that everyone let that one through to the keeper. It is the only shiraz I collect religiously but everyone has different tastes. Your number one would be?

Mark

I would vote Tyrrell's 4 Acres.

Clonakilla SV would be in the conversation.