NWR: Coffee Machines

[Hacker]

Hi all, I figure most of us wine lovers also are somewhat fanatical on other beverages as well, and I guess coffee is high on most people's list.

I need some guidance on what are good coffee machines. For the past five years I have used a Sunbeam Cafe Series Twin Thermoblock which at the price point around $600 represents good value. But the motor just doesn't extract the coffee from the grind well enough.

So, I am looking for something more powerful for both extraction and milk frothing. It doesn't need to be plumbed to water, but I am prepared to pay around $1000-1500.

Thoughts appreciated.

[brodie]

Honestly, I have gone to the dark side and gotten a Nespresso machine. I love it and it makes perfect coffee 100% of the time. Lots of options and choices of machines. I would recommend going to one of their stores and trying it out. I used to have a Saeco which is a high end Italian machine and I loved it too but now the Nespresso has taken over. No way back for me....

If you are not willing to consider the Nespresso route, check out the Saeco machines...

http://www.philips.com.au/c-m-ho/coffee ... so-machine



Brodie

[Ozzie W]

I recommend a Rancilio Silvia coffee machine plus the best conical burr grinder you can afford. Total budget in your $1000-$1500 range.

I also recommend you look at the Coffee Snobs forum... it's the Auswine equivalent for coffee.

[Hacker]

Honestly, I have gone to the dark side and gotten a Nespresso machine.

Thanks Brodie. I just like to control the coffee beans I use, the grind size and getting the milk creamy.
Thanks for the Saeco link.

[griff]

I recommend a Rancilio Silvia coffee machine plus the best conical burr grinder you can afford. Total budget in your $1000-$1500 range.

I also recommend you look at the Coffee Snobs forum... it's the Auswine equivalent for coffee.

That's my gear. Silvia and Rocky. It sure takes a while to heat up in the morning but love the second coffee!

[mjs]

I recommend a Rancilio Silvia coffee machine plus the best conical burr grinder you can afford. Total budget in your $1000-$1500 range.

I also recommend you look at the Coffee Snobs forum... it's the Auswine equivalent for coffee.

Similar comments to Ozzie. I can be found lurking on CS I have to admit. Currently have an Expobar double boiler machine and Macao M4D grinder. Had a Rancilio Rocky grinder which was pretty good. Mate had a Sylvia, also good. I would personally go for a heat exchanger machine at least if you want milk coffees. Sylvia is just a single boiler and it's not as easy to brew then froth as it is with an HX or DB machine. More expensive of course. Have a look at Coffee snobs site and sponsor info, they are all pretty helpful

[mjs]

Oh, fresh beans are a must!!

[Ozzie W]

Oh, fresh beans are a must!!

+1

The key to a perfect coffee is the combination of freshly roasted beans, a high quality grinder, and a high quality coffee machine.

The Rancilio will make a proper coffee, but it's a single boiler machine as mjs pointed out, so it takes a bit longer to prepare.

[Ian S]

I recommend a Rancilio Silvia coffee machine plus the best conical burr grinder you can afford. Total budget in your $1000-$1500 range.

I also recommend you look at the Coffee Snobs forum... it's the Auswine equivalent for coffee.

Coffee geeks is another committed forum.

FWIW we've got a Rancilio Silvia, and it is very good. There is a slight frustration since EU legislation forced them to put an auto shut-off after 30 mins, which is about the ideal 'up to temperature' time Not a showstopper issue though.

The scary advice is always 'spend as much on the grinder as the machine' which sounds crazy, but is widely preached. We went for a Eureka Mignon, which is a little 'retro' but does a very good job and easy to clean with 'grindz' (no need to disassemble). There is a bit of 'clumping' but that really isn't a bother.

[michel]

I recommend a Rancilio Silvia coffee machine plus the best conical burr grinder you can afford. Total budget in your $1000-$1500 range.

I also recommend you look at the Coffee Snobs forum... it's the Auswine equivalent for coffee.

Agreed
Been thru 3 0f these machines
Keep one as a spare machine & travel machine
Now using a Le Strega Bezzerra (sic)
Awesome expressive coffee

[winetastic]

I'm also a long time coffeesnobs forum member and order their roasted coffee every 2 weeks.

As far as coffee machines go, I started out with a Rancilio Silvia as well - it is a little tricky to use and has a long warm up time, however has the ability to make "god shots" every now and then - consider getting one second hand as a low risk chance to try it out.

Right now I have a Breville dual boiler model, which warms up quickly, has a built in timer, is easy to use and of course can do an espresso shot and steam milk at the same time. It is more consistent than Ms Silvia but doesn't reach the same occasional heights.

All that being said, the grinder is the most important part (after fresh beans). I am running a Compak K3-Touch and cannot recommend it highly enough, a big step up from the Rancilio Rocky grinder I started with.

[michel]

I'm also a long time coffeesnobs forum member and order their roasted coffee every 2 weeks.

As far as coffee machines go, I started out with a Rancilio Silvia as well - it is a little tricky to use and has a long warm up time, however has the ability to make "god shots" every now and then - consider getting one second hand as a low risk chance to try it out.

Right now I have a Breville dual boiler model, which warms up quickly, has a built in timer, is easy to use and of course can do an espresso shot and steam milk at the same time. It is more consistent than Ms Silvia but doesn't reach the same occasional heights.

All that being said, the grinder is the most important part (after fresh beans). I am running a Compak K3-Touch and cannot recommend it highly enough, a big step up from the Rancilio Rocky grinder I started with.

why is it better ?
I am looking at a ek 43 - bloody crazy price and size

[Chris H]

I also use a Nespresso machine because I thought learning to use a coffee machine properly was too much hassle. However we recently stayed in an apartment with a Breville BES900XL Dual Boiler Semi Automatic Espresso Machine. I have never used a machine before but it seemed pretty intuitive and easy to use and made pretty good coffee.

The grinder was also a Breville bui looked pretty simple and cheap, yet seemed to do a good job as there were no worm holes in the coffee post brewing.

So a couple of questions without wanting to wade through the massive amount of information and opinions on Coffee Snobs forum. Is the Breville a good machine ? Why is the grinder so important given in my ignorance the cheap one seemed to do a good consistent grind ?

[Ozzie W]

I also use a Nespresso machine because I thought learning to use a coffee machine properly was too much hassle. However we recently stayed in an apartment with a Breville BES900XL Dual Boiler Semi Automatic Espresso Machine. I have never used a machine before but it seemed pretty intuitive and easy to use and made pretty good coffee.

The grinder was also a Breville bui looked pretty simple and cheap, yet seemed to do a good job as there were no worm holes in the coffee post brewing.

So a couple of questions without wanting to wade through the massive amount of information and opinions on Coffee Snobs forum. Is the Breville a good machine ? Why is the grinder so important given in my ignorance the cheap one seemed to do a good consistent grind ?

Those Breville machines are convenient, simple to use and make a consistent coffee. The same can be said for Nespresso. However, if you want to make seriously good coffee, then in my opinion you must use an Italian made coffee machine.

It's not just about getting a consistent grind. It needs to be the right grind. To make a perfect coffee, you need to grind the coffee beans to very precise particle sizes necessary to get good extraction. You can make a better coffee with a $250 coffee machine and a $500 grinder, than with a $2500 coffee machine and a $100 grinder. Hence that general rule of thumb that you should spend as much on the grinder as on the coffee machine.

[Chris H]

Ok, thanks Wizard of Oz.

[winetastic]

why is it better ?
I am looking at a ek 43 - bloody crazy price and size

I can make micro adjustments on the grinder to fine tune, the rocky grinder was "stepped" and making one change was fairly substantial.

Also the Compak just makes better coffee - I don't know exactly why, I have been told it producers more even particle sizes?

[mjs]

why is it better ?
I am looking at a ek 43 - bloody crazy price and size

I can make micro adjustments on the grinder to fine tune, the rocky grinder was "stepped" and making one change was fairly substantial.

Also the Compak just makes better coffee - I don't know exactly why, I have been told it producers more even particle sizes?

Not trying to prolong this thread, but I get much better results with my Macap M4D grinder than I did with my Rocky. I am sure there is less particle size variation with the Macap.

[Chris H]

Thought you'd be old School Malcolm - large mallet.

[Benchmark]

Spend your coin on fresh beans and a great grinder.

Run with a pour over set up.

Coffee machines are so 2015.

When you get your coffee on point, get a sleeve tattoo, a comb over, some thick rimmed glasses and a decent beard. NEXT LEVEL!

[Chris H]

Missed a great Offline you loser.

[via collins]

Recurring vision of Malcom running a Bounty Bar through his blender.
Halleluhah!

[mjs]

I am looking at the grinder right now, no sign of any Bounty Bars

wonderful tasting tonight btw

[Polymer]

From my understanding, there is also a skill in changing some of the variables (like tamping) based on humidity, grind, etc...and finding a machine that can produce sufficient pressure also helps.

Obviously you need good beans..but I think the skill of the person pulling the shot is extremely underrated.

[Luke W]

I'm amazed at the number of respondents who have Sylvias as I do (also Rocky grinders). I've used one at least once a day and sometimes 3 or 4 times a day for 15 years or so. It was serviced about 7 or 8 years ago but essentially no problems. A brilliant and simple piece of engineering. I have a mate with a $3000 job and his coffee is no better. There are some hints on using it to its greatest capacity which we could all pass on should u buy one.
Is everyone into good food too?

[Chris H]

I think the best accompaniment for First Growth Bordeaux is an Egg and Bacon McMuffin.

[Chris H]

....followed by a Nespresso of course.

[Hacker]

Thanks guys for all the opinions and info. I dived in and bought a Rancillo Sylvia V5 and will have fun working out it's idiosyncrasies.

[Benchmark]

Missed a great Offline you loser.

Great? Hardly without Shell there.

Very good at best

[Ian S]

Thanks guys for all the opinions and info. I dived in and bought a Rancillo Sylvia V5 and will have fun working out it's idiosyncrasies.

... and there are plenty to ask if there are questions.

The Silvia is certainly much more sensitive to fineness of grind compared to our old Gaggia (Baby Class D). Indeed I find that two different beans, even on the same grind setting, will require slightly different force to the tamping. It's also stopped us buying pre-ground at all, because we found some were much too course to get enough extraction.

I'm not so surprised at the numbers having the Rancilio pair. For the best part of a decade those have been talked about as the best kit for that price, though the Rocky grinder seems to have lost favour over the last 2-3 years. The Silvia appears most highly regarded for the quality of the components - often described as a commercial machine in a home use size.

On a practical level, I really enjoy the tamping mat we bought 'Cafelat Splat'. The 'splat' design is perhaps not for everyone, but the way it sits on the corner of the work-surface makes tamping very easy.

[Luke W]

Congrats on ur purchase - here are a few things that I do (which may be quite different to others) that work for me. You will get a fuller and richer shot if u turn it on about 20 minutes before using it (although there are ways to cheat here). The comments about the grind are really important - my rocky sits on 11 but was on 12 for the first 10 years of its life (Central Qld tho' may have different specs to you). I'm fastidious about cleaning the Sylvia around the top of the group handle after each go so there's no stale coffee grinds accumulating.
Coffee is bought only as whole beans and stored in the freezer (in CQ the beans go off very quickly stored anywhere else)!
Coffee that makes a great espresso may not make a great cappucino. I use the de Bella and Merlot espresso blends and the Coffee Works Mareeba Black Mountain for my cappuccinos and think that I generally get a better product than most coffee shops.
I check the water level and top up every couple of days and never leave the machine on with the steamer light on for more than 15 minutes or so. Run 4 or 5 full cups through your new machine before using it.
It's worth getting a Knock box to bang the grinds out.
If you want to heat the machine up quickly - u can turn it on with the steamer light on and leave it for 5 minutes and then blow some steam through until the light comes on. Then switch the steamer light off and wait a few minutes. If you're using the steamer to froth milk, it works best the second after the steamer light goes off.
I only use filtered water and clean it out with citric acid every couple of years. If I go away for more than a few days I'll change the water and run a few coffee less cups through the machine to get the water out of the boiler. After the citric acid I find that I have to run lots of water through to get rid of the taste.

Enjoy