The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

[winetastic]

Opened a bottle of Reverdito "Riva Rocca" Barolo 2010, unfortunately this was very modernist and was swamped with loads of sweet vanilla oak. Shame since it looked like there was great fruit hidden underneath.

Put the cork back in that one and pop+poured an Olek Bondonio Langhe Nebbiolo 2015 instead - now we are talking, lovely minerality, fresh juicy reds fruits, alpine air, new leather, no shortage of tannin. There was initially some youthful yeasty character that blew off, saw the same thing with the 2015 Benevelli Langhe Neb. After around 2 hours, the tannins had really asserted themselves, looks like a baby Barbaresco and should cellar nicely.

[winetastic]

Oh, also drank a bottle of Tonic Wines Nebbiolo 2015 the other day, its not particularly 'varietal', showing a lot more like a nerello mascalese in style, however ill be damned if its not a delicious drink. Complex, always shifting in the glass and very glubbable.

[Redback]

2007 Luciano Sandrone Nebbiolo d'Alba Valmaggiore - tart raspberry/cherry. A very enjoyable Neb with a beef ragu for dinner.

[tarija]

2007 Luciano Sandrone Nebbiolo d'Alba Valmaggiore - tart raspberry/cherry. A very enjoyable Neb with a beef ragu for dinner.

Hi Redback,

This Sandrone nebb is almost the same price as many base level Barolo (eg Burlotto, Oddero, Vajra), and more expensive than PdB Barbaresco. Do you think the Sandrone represents adequate quality for the price?

[michel]

2007 Luciano Sandrone Nebbiolo d'Alba Valmaggiore - tart raspberry/cherry. A very enjoyable Neb with a beef ragu for dinner.

Hi Redback,

This Sandrone nebb is almost the same price as many base level Barolo (eg Burlotto, Oddero, Vajra), and more expensive than PdB Barbaresco. Do you think the Sandrone represents adequate quality for the price?

I had 2004 barolo on the weekend over three days- didnt come up at all
I dont rate them at all
not vfm imo

[Redback]

2007 Luciano Sandrone Nebbiolo d'Alba Valmaggiore - tart raspberry/cherry. A very enjoyable Neb with a beef ragu for dinner.

Hi Redback,

This Sandrone nebb is almost the same price as many base level Barolo (eg Burlotto, Oddero, Vajra), and more expensive than PdB Barbaresco. Do you think the Sandrone represents adequate quality for the price?

Hi Tarja,

I am a relative "newbie" to neb and I am not too sure I don't have enough experience to make comparison with other aged barolo's.

I did pay out the $$ for this bottle because I heard that Sandrone was a quality producer and I was interested to see what a neb with a few years on it was like. I enjoyed this wine and on basis of this, I would recommend it. Having said that, there is probably better value with PdB, which I have also been buying.

[Ian S]

Sandrone were certainly one of the most prestigious names a few years ago and prices seem to reflect that high profile. FWIW I think I've tasted just a single Barolo from them (that didn't excite) so I can't really offer much to the debate. Not much 'chatter' about them on wine forums.

[winetastic]

I have had a Sandrone Langhe Nebbiolo twice, both times were somewhat disappointing considering the price. Seems the style is a bit more serious than some other producers, significant decanting time was required.

[JamieBahrain]

Sandrone can be magnificent and pricing about the same at Mount Edelstone on international markets for a realistic comparison.

Michel, would you drink Monfortiono from 04? I mean Sandrone pretty serious Barolo and I put them in the long, long term camp.

Chatting with Barbara Sandrone a few years ago, they were hit so bad with poor storage/logisitcs affecting their reputation they began a 10 year cellar release program as a few others do such as Massolino.

[tarija]

The acid-tongued Bill Klapp spoke very highly of Sandrone on Berserkers:

http://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/vie ... h+Sandrone

This guy tears strips off Antonio Galloni and Kerin O'Keefe usually, so I'm quite interested and intrigued when he has something praiseworthy to say about a Nebbiolo that isn't necessarily a Monfortino/Giacosa red label.

Sandrone's winemaking is nicely detailed here as well:
http://www.sandroneluciano.com/pages/en ... line.lasso

[michel]

Sandrone can be magnificent and pricing about the same at Mount Edelstone on international markets for a realistic comparison.

Michel, would you drink Monfortiono from 04? I mean Sandrone pretty serious Barolo and I put them in the long, long term camp.

Chatting with Barbara Sandrone a few years ago, they were hit so bad with poor storage/logisitcs affecting their reputation they began a 10 year cellar release program as a few others do such as Massolino.

Jamie
I have a Mark Shield approach to wine- if I want to try it then I open the wine
I cellar wine but I am not a collector or a hoarder

[JamieBahrain]

Fair enough. The trouble being as Sandrone found out, the secondary market can have little respect for proper storing and logisitcs of Italian wine so cellaring yourself becomes a big factor if you catch the nebbiolo bug. It's hard not to drink them early because great bottles are very expensive with age.

The 10 Anniv release wines of Sandrone and Massolino that I've had actually need a decade + more which kind of defeats the purpose of their program of releasing wines ready to drink, properly stored and not having been exposed to the horrors of the secondary market.

[michel]

Fair enough. The trouble being as Sandrone found out, the secondary market can have little respect for proper storing and logisitcs of Italian wine so cellaring yourself becomes a big factor if you catch the nebbiolo bug. It's hard not to drink them early because great bottles are very expensive with age.

The 10 Anniv release wines of Sandrone and Massolino that I've had actually need a decade + more which kind of defeats the purpose of their program of releasing wines ready to drink, properly stored and not having been exposed to the horrors of the secondary market.

I 100% get your view and agree with the correct aging and benefits
but I do want to try wines when they are too young , perfect and too old for calibration.
I sometimes worry about wines that may never be at a good stage for drinking !

poor storage - dont get me started- recent 10 year old burgs from my cellar are not ready yet and need another 10 years

[winetastic]

I have been backfilling with a bunch of 2004 and 2006 Barolos from auctions, bit of a leap of faith on the storage/provenance front, and agree that its a strange feeling that I don't really want to be touching them for another 10 years or so.

[Ian S]

FWIW a decent 2004 or 2006 Barolo is likely to be robust enough to survive a bit of warmth, though clearly the potential is there for stupidity in shipping or storage in Australian summer heat.

I would be surprised if much Barolo ended up in really poor storage conditions (outside Italy that is, the Italians can be very blasé). It is still quite specialist and bought mostly for cellaring.

[winetastic]

Is anyone else from Sydney attending the Barolo/Barbaresco masterclass run by Gary this Sat?

[Redback]

Is anyone else from Sydney attending the Barolo/Barbaresco masterclass run by Gary this Sat?

Yep, I'll be there.

[winetastic]

So the Barolo / Barbaresco tasting hosted by Gary Walsh of the weekend was great, the lineup of wines was as good as one could hope for, it was a pity that the temperature outside was up around 33 and the (delicious) smells from the kitchen did overwhelm some of the more delicate Nebbiolos slightly... even so, some notes.

Bracket #1
This entire bracket was approachable and very drinkable right now.

Casinca Della Rose Barbaresco 2012
Nose a touch muted, detected some floral and red fruit elements. Mouthfilling fine tannins with a wonderful texture in the mouth, very approachable right now, maybe not one for the long term, most enjoyable to drink right now from the bracket, 91.

Massolino Barolo 2012
Aromas of orange peel, cherry and hints of pine. Very fine grippy tannin structure, long and balanced, mid weight, excellent, good value for money as well, 92+.

Ferdinando Principiano Barolo Serralunga 2012
A far more generous nose than the other wines in the bracket, quite mineral and plummy with a hint of mint. Shows a little heat on the palate (Gary checked the bottle, 13.5%, probably just the ambient room temp coming into play), not as long or complex but had some fine grippy tannins, 90.

Bracket #2
A big step up in complexity from the first bracket, the Brezza was originally planned to be the Cannubi, however a late minute change ended up with an upgrade.

Trediberri Barolo 2012
Could slot this into the first bracket quite easily, open mineral nose with fresh strawberries, cherries and spice. Fresh and juicy in the mouth, has that distinct mineral water texture with a zesty and spicy finish, 91.

Vietti Barolo Castiglione 2012
Deep and rich aromas of cherry, citrus peel, strawberry and a herbal element. Intense burst of bold flavour in the mouth, loads of complexity, super long, firm grip of tannin on the finish, excellent, really wished I had a big pinot glass to plunder the depths of this wine, 93+.

Brezza Barolo Sarmassa 2012
Pretty nose with inviting red fruits and minerals. Silky and voluptuous in the mouth, has length for days, but the tannin, holy shit the tannin, so fine, so refined, outstanding. The Brezza house style (leaner, mineral, red fruit spectrum) really shines with this fresher vintage, equal wine of the tasting, 95+.

Bracket #3
I got chatting and had to rush the Cogno, sorry

Elvio Cogno Barolo Ravera 2012
Open inviting nose, bold and rich on the palate with distinct roses and cranberry. Tight fine tannin grip, 91+.

G.D Vajra Barolo Ravera 2012
Nose was pretty, floral and herbal, such an approachable wine, long and fresh with dark cherry flavours, that 2012 minerality and fine yet firm tannins on the finish, gluggable, 93+.

Giovanni Rosso Barolo La Serra 2012
Open and rich nose with dark berries and citrus peel, its a fresh and juicy wine with dark fruits, rhubarb and a little hint of funk (in a good way). The length was impeccable, the drinkability through the roof, equal wine of the tasting, 95+.

Bracket #4
To finish, some wines with a bit of age, I think these struggled with the heat, my growing levels of intoxication (despite best efforts to spit) and the lack of a very large glass.

Aldo Conterno Barolo Romirasco 2006
Showing some secondary development on the nose already, some balsamic, dark fruits and spices. On the palate its rich and bold with dark fruits, licorice, a fair bit of heat and some vanilla. Loads of slightly coarse tannin, 91.

Massolino Barolo Vigna Rionda Riserva X Anni 2004
Amazing nose showing a mix of primary and secondary characters, dark fruits spice, could smell this for days. On the palate, wow this is long, lots of fine grippy tannin, wish I could have spent time with this one sober, 94+.

Gaja Costa Russi 2001
Aromas of barnyard and sweet oak. Dry on the palate with unresolved tannins, its a very linear wine, though it does have excellent length. The good news? You can get two of these for the price of a bottle of Grange, I guess, 88.

[Ozzie W]

So the Barolo / Barbaresco tasting hosted by Gary Walsh of the weekend was great, the lineup of wines was as good as one could hope for, it was a pity that the temperature outside was up around 33 and the (delicious) smells from the kitchen did overwhelm some of the more delicate Nebbiolos slightly... even so, some notes.

Bracket #1
This entire bracket was approachable and very drinkable right now.

Casinca Della Rose Barbaresco 2012
Nose a touch muted, detected some floral and red fruit elements. Mouthfilling fine tannins with a wonderful texture in the mouth, very approachable right now, maybe not one for the long term, most enjoyable to drink right now from the bracket, 91.

Massolino Barolo 2012
Aromas of orange peel, cherry and hints of pine. Very fine grippy tannin structure, long and balanced, mid weight, excellent, good value for money as well, 92+.

Ferdinando Principiano Barolo Serralunga 2012
A far more generous nose than the other wines in the bracket, quite mineral and plummy with a hint of mint. Shows a little heat on the palate (Gary checked the bottle, 13.5%, probably just the ambient room temp coming into play), not as long or complex but had some fine grippy tannins, 90.

Bracket #2
A big step up in complexity from the first bracket, the Brezza was originally planned to be the Cannubi, however a late minute change ended up with an upgrade.

Trediberri Barolo 2012
Could slot this into the first bracket quite easily, open mineral nose with fresh strawberries, cherries and spice. Fresh and juicy in the mouth, has that distinct mineral water texture with a zesty and spicy finish, 91.

Vietti Barolo Castiglione 2012
Deep and rich aromas of cherry, citrus peel, strawberry and a herbal element. Intense burst of bold flavour in the mouth, loads of complexity, super long, firm grip of tannin on the finish, excellent, really wished I had a big pinot glass to plunder the depths of this wine, 93+.

Brezza Barolo Sarmassa 2012
Pretty nose with inviting red fruits and minerals. Silky and voluptuous in the mouth, has length for days, but the tannin, holy shit the tannin, so fine, so refined, outstanding. The Brezza house style (leaner, mineral, red fruit spectrum) really shines with this fresher vintage, equal wine of the tasting, 95+.

Bracket #3
I got chatting and had to rush the Cogno, sorry

Elvio Cogno Barolo Ravera 2012
Open inviting nose, bold and rich on the palate with distinct roses and cranberry. Tight fine tannin grip, 91+.

G.D Vajra Barolo Ravera 2012
Nose was pretty, floral and herbal, such an approachable wine, long and fresh with dark cherry flavours, that 2012 minerality and fine yet firm tannins on the finish, gluggable, 93+.

Giovanni Rosso Barolo La Serra 2012
Open and rich nose with dark berries and citrus peel, its a fresh and juicy wine with dark fruits, rhubarb and a little hint of funk (in a good way). The length was impeccable, the drinkability through the roof, equal wine of the tasting, 95+.

Bracket #4
To finish, some wines with a bit of age, I think these struggled with the heat, my growing levels of intoxication (despite best efforts to spit) and the lack of a very large glass.

Aldo Conterno Barolo Romirasco 2006
Showing some secondary development on the nose already, some balsamic, dark fruits and spices. On the palate its rich and bold with dark fruits, licorice, a fair bit of heat and some vanilla. Loads of slightly coarse tannin, 91.

Massolino Barolo Vigna Rionda Riserva X Anni 2004
Amazing nose showing a mix of primary and secondary characters, dark fruits spice, could smell this for days. On the palate, wow this is long, lots of fine grippy tannin, wish I could have spent time with this one sober, 94+.

Gaja Costa Russi 2001
Aromas of barnyard and sweet oak. Dry on the palate with unresolved tannins, its a very linear wine, though it does have excellent length. The good news? You can get two of these for the price of a bottle of Grange, I guess, 88.

Looks like it was a great tasting, Thanks for the notes. Got some of those in my cellar, so I look forward to trying them in due course.

[JamieBahrain]

I'd suggest the Gaja flawed and unrepresentative.

Incidentally, it's been missed when discussing Olek Bondonio's wines, that Costa Russi is the south facing vineyard in the cru of Roncagliette. Olek's vineyard sits above arguable Italy's most famous, Sori Tildin. So you have 2 x Gaja vineyards and Olek's vines in Roncagliette.

If anyone wants to organize an Olek offline one day I have a lot of his stuff back to 2008 including magnums of the 2009 Roncagliette which received some acclaim. I have the Gaja's too. Be fun.

[Chris H]

Echoing Oz, thanks for those notes. Pity about the heat, luck of the draw. I'm in Bondi at the moment and it is ideal for reds, unlike the weekend just gone.

Barnyard nose and linear palate on the Gaja suggests Brett to me. The other older ones are from powerful vintages unlike 2012,, so I'd expect them to be still tannic as you found in any case.

[JamieBahrain]

Funky nose and linear palate can also be TCA in older nebbiolo.

When I was visited palace Gaja you could eat food of the floor. Haven't heard of a brett issue in Gaja; not dismissing it, just haven't heard complaints.

[mychurch]

Had my last half bottle of 89 Gaja Barbaresco last night. Its quite lean and food friendly. First tried it about 10 years ago, when it was lush and quite primary. This had a great nose, but gave no real enjoyment. Shame.

[Gary W]

Gaja not corked in slightest, and not particularly bretty for me either. It was oaky and with emerging bottle age/tar/tobacco characters. Quite a few people liked it, but it's not a wine (style) i enjoy at all. I liked all of the 2012s and Principiano will add to the collection

[JamieBahrain]

Should have showed a lot better which could be due a myriad of factors.

It's a shame all the emerging Nebbiolo enthusiasts in Australia can't more easily get their hands on mature wines. Then the fun starts . Old or mature Gaja is amazing. Including their Barbaresco sav blanc

[Gary W]

01 Gaja available to order on the day. It's via Negociants, the importer. Nebbiolo that smells of oak, and more importantly, has oak tannin on the finish is unpleasant. Just a personal view. I get that people enjoy that style. Popular in America, I hear.

[winetastic]

Should have showed a lot better which could be due a myriad of factors.

Probably the #1 factor being that I am staunchly anti-oak as well, especially anywhere near my Nebbiolo.

I know two people sat next to us felt the Gaja was the wine of the tasting, I couldn't finish my glass (a second pour of Vigna Rionda helped to seal that deal).

[Mivvy]

A lot of oak hate! I think the quality, age and toasting regime plays a big part. My preference is for neutral oak and botti but I also enjoy B/B with some form of french oak/barrique. For example, Vietti and Azelia use small barrels with new oak in various proportions for some of their wines.

It is interesting looking at notes on Cellartracker in which tasters call out oak usage on traditionally made wines.

[JamieBahrain]

I've had many of the Barolo Boy's inaugural vintages and I must say, time heals all. The oak certainly falls to the background and is barely noticable- Voerzio, Altare, Scavino from memory. I find the oak debate can be a little elemental as Mivvy alludes to . Go to a tiny producer, proud owners of their new Slavonian bottis and sometimes oak shows it's way into the wines obtrusively and takes a vintage or two to sort out.

I just can't see that Gaja being representative and I'm not butting in on anyone's nebbiolo journey. I'd be interested to know if a Gaja cellar release cause they are pretty awesome ( Italian wine logistics generally appalling )- I've had them from the 50's, 60's right through and often chalk and cheese with the secondary market, though 2001 is only a pup.

Scalped, adolescent to aged nebbiolo is probably the most insidious taint I've experienced in the wine world. The myth the Italians get the best corks seems just that now. They cop the same % we did in the 90's from scuttle butt. So possible 10% cork failures, with some dirty cellars and winemaking that can mask modest taint. I just haven't seen dirty pratices so much in Gaja and I'd still put a little money on that wine being scalped.

[JamieBahrain]

Incidentally, 2012's seem to be going cheap here in HKG. I'm already moving on to 2013 Barbaresco which is looking smart.