2016 Wendouree Mailer

[JamieBahrain]

Tough way to make a quid.....

But this is only for the shiraz and cabernet? As the blends seem close to release price minus auction commission?

So maybe these clowns are looking at frequent flyer points for their credit card? Buy a complete allocation. Lose a bit on the blends at auction but profit on shiraz. Or perhaps the cunning foxes flick the shiraz figuring it near completely subsidizes a six pack of the blend.

[Polymer]

Only the Shiraz is even worth flipping...Cab barely...the blends if you get them out there early enough seem to have a small premium but after a month they're back down to basically release prices.

Really is a lot of work for a few bucks..

My guess is a lot of people buy it because they think they might like it..and given they can get their money back if they sell it, feel safer going all in..

But the opportunity cost is just too high to be worth it..that money could've been used for something else...that space could've been used for something else. If neither money or space is a concern there are tons of other things you could buy that you might like...

Half (or more) of the people buying it today will stop in 5-10 years because they'll realize they just don't like it that much....just seems like a waste..

[tarija]

Such a lot of consternation about flipping for profit.

Realistically though, if you take a look at it, this is all wine retailers are doing - flipping wines acquired at wholesale/lower prices, and selling it at higher price for profit.

[phillisc]

Yes Tarija, I think its a really interesting point. Its really refreshing when you see the odd retailer with prices that are almost line ball with CD releases. I am about to make my first purchase through out good host here on exactly that premise.

But there are a heap of retailers that are no better than the flippers.
I was in a small Adelaide independent in the city the other day...Rockford basket press for $115...guess there are some fools out there happy to pay.

Anyway I won't be selling...and the mailer will pass to the next generation.

Cheers
Craig

[JamieBahrain]

Such a lot of consternation about flipping for profit.

Realistically though, if you take a look at it, this is all wine retailers are doing - flipping wines acquired at wholesale/lower prices, and selling it at higher price for profit.

Not really. Just trying to find where the profit is versus risk. It really seems a frequent flyer points exercise to me.

[ticklenow1]

I received my delivery yesterday. I must have been one of the last to receive the Shiraz. Only ordered 3 of all the reds but got the lot. Wife is happy as they are for her. Red Crayon, 4th year ordering. Although having had a couple of mid-90's with Jamie, I can really see the attraction that some have for these wines. Straight to the very back of the cellar with the rest of my Wendouree stash.

Cheers
Ian

[sjw_11]

Such a lot of consternation about flipping for profit.

Realistically though, if you take a look at it, this is all wine retailers are doing - flipping wines acquired at wholesale/lower prices, and selling it at higher price for profit.

Not at all.

A wine retailer provides a useful disaggregation service. A winery wants to sell in bulk, retailers will aggregate that bulk and then offer it to you from a (hopefully) convenient shop front allowing you to have a wide range of choice and to buy in small quantities.

In return they bear sizeable costs. The risks of holding inventory, ordering too much or too little of certain products. The cost of storing inventory and of retailing space. The more convenient the store is for you, the more expensive it probably is for them. And then the staff costs to (again, hopefully) have staff on site who can provide knowledgeable expertise.

In return for these costs, they earn a return on their investment which in an ideal world will compensate them for the costs of the capital invested.

Sure we all know retailers that don't do this - and have bad staff, a poor range, or a policy of eye watering high prices. But you can solve that through the miracle of shopping somewhere else, leading to their business failing a sizeable loss to them personally.

Flipping a recent purchase is more akin to an attempt at risk-free arbitrage. You hold the stock almost no time, and expect a guaranteed profit.

For example, if £1 is trading at £1 in Boston but $1.30 in London, I could make an instant and risk-free profit by buying in Boston and selling in London. Similarly if Wendouree Shiraz is priced $50 at the cellar door and $100 at auction. In classic finance theory such distortions are eliminated by behavior of the would-be speculators. That is, the demand for £1 in Boston would quickly surge, leading the price to rise.

However, in the Wendouree example, the winery has not allowed the price to rise to keep the market in equilibrium but has rather limited supply.

The economically rational response, if you can secure stock, is indeed to flip it for a profit.

The question is, is wine a mere commodity to you? Or a collectible, an item the value of which is more driven by its contribution to your social experiences than to your wallet? And do you respect its producers enough to abide by their wish the product is only sold to those who will consume it not those seeking a quick buck?

Because honestly, if there are not enough respectful people left to purchase the wines in the spirit intended, to drink, not flip, then the winery has only two options: 1) stop selling anything, to punish people for their turpitude; or 2) allow the price to rise to reach a natural clearing level, thus eliminating the arbitrage.

What would you prefer?

[JamieBahrain]

Because honestly, if there are not enough respectful people left to purchase the wines in the spirit intended, to drink, not flip, then the winery has only two options: 1) stop selling anything, to punish people for their turpitude; or 2) allow the price to rise to reach a natural clearing level, thus eliminating the arbitrage.

What would you prefer?

Very profound !

I'd love to see an Auswine Wendouree day where we all pull the cork or twist the cap ( cussing ) on a Wendouree bottle. For the amount the winery is discussed here, there's very little that's consumed.

[ticklenow1]

Because honestly, if there are not enough respectful people left to purchase the wines in the spirit intended, to drink, not flip, then the winery has only two options: 1) stop selling anything, to punish people for their turpitude; or 2) allow the price to rise to reach a natural clearing level, thus eliminating the arbitrage.

What would you prefer?

Very profound !

I'd love to see an Auswine Wendouree day where we all pull the cork or twist the cap ( cussing ) on a Wendouree bottle. For the amount the winery is discussed here, there's very little that's consumed.

Jamie,

That's probably because unless you've been a collector for many years like yourself and a few others on here, most are probably only going to be disappointed if they open a young Wendouree. Those two mid 90's that we had recently were amazing and made me realise I have to sit on my small stash for many years. But I remember having an 04 Shiraz Mataro 2 years ago and was just not that impressed. It was still a pup and 12 hours of decanting didn't help much at all. I've only been on the list a few years and I'd suggest many others are the same. More than likely, many only decided to get on the list after reading tasting notes of older Wendouree's from people like yourself (myself included). So it's a bit of a conundrum. Probably the only way to taste a Wendouree in it's prime for people like myself is either be lucky enough to be around when one is opened, or take the punt at auction and that can end in tears.

Cheers
Ian

[JamieBahrain]

Fair enough Ian. With the forum interest, I'd still have expected more effort with Wendouree and that includes a punt at auction. The auction outlay is tiny compared to the hype and obsession noted here.

Be awful, the last thing to flash through your mind before passing is that you should have drunk some of your Wendouree.... and imagine the new scarcity factor if we all drunk a bit more.

[Polymer]

That's probably because unless you've been a collector for many years like yourself and a few others on here, most are probably only going to be disappointed if they open a young Wendouree. Those two mid 90's that we had recently were amazing and made me realise I have to sit on my small stash for many years. But I remember having an 04 Shiraz Mataro 2 years ago and was just not that impressed. It was still a pup and 12 hours of decanting didn't help much at all. I've only been on the list a few years and I'd suggest many others are the same. More than likely, many only decided to get on the list after reading tasting notes of older Wendouree's from people like yourself (myself included). So it's a bit of a conundrum. Probably the only way to taste a Wendouree in it's prime for people like myself is either be lucky enough to be around when one is opened, or take the punt at auction and that can end in tears.

I still think even with age a good portion of people just won't like it...I'm not even sure I'll like aged versions of the newer vintages...

My question is, how many people are buying that haven't had a great aged version? I suspect many are just looking at it as, just in case they'll like it they're buying it..knowing that worst case is they'll break even or make a little bit on it...

[Scotty vino]

I was definitely a try before I buy with Wendouree.
Had a few early 00's shiraz which i thought were pretty good.
Some of those were quite tannic and had some pretty pronounced acetone/nail polish remover
characteristics about em but some did not.
Some were just flat out good drops thrown next to some greenock creeks ap blocks and rockies BP.
There seems to be this 'you like it or you don't ' school of thought with Wendouree but for me I've experienced
a fairly wide gamut of tastes and styles with them.
My recent experience was a 96 cab mal at the Adelaide offline.
This MORE than held it's own amongst some pretty huge company. Unreal wine. loved it.
Folk cellaring Wendouree now, that havent tasted it, may not like certain varietals or styles when it comes time to drink.
But some of it may really evolve into something that they really like.
It's the beauty of cellaring I reckon.
How many times do people load up on stuff they try and love, to then realise it's not for them 10 yrs down the track.
Works both ways....

[mychurch]

I joined the mailing list just after my Australian girlfriend moved in, before I had even drunk a bottle (although I had a couple in the cellar). Impossible to get hold of here in europe and I´d read enough about the wine to figure I would like it.

Had a 98 Shiraz Mataro in 2014 and that pretty much convinced me that I made the correct choice. A 2006 Shiraz Malbec a few months ago was closed and definitely needs more time. Drank with a Burg lover and he was raving about it...- those that have previously compared Wendouree to D`Angerville look to have made a good call.

I have a tasting next month with some friends - big reds is the theme - and I am thinking of opening a ´13 Cabernet..Most wines that take an age to come together seem to have a sweet spot shortly after bottling. Hard to know how long it lasts though...

[crusty2]

Such a lot of consternation about flipping for profit.

Realistically though, if you take a look at it, this is all wine retailers are doing - flipping wines acquired at wholesale/lower prices, and selling it at higher price for profit.

email received today from a retailer (name edited out)

We have just had a couple of cases of 2014 Wendouree arrive. It is first in best dressed for orders via return email. Please allow up to 14 days for delivery.

Cheers

2014 Wendouree Shiraz Mataro, $110ea (12 bottles avail)

2014 Wendouree Cabernet Malbec, $110ea (18 bottles avail)

2014 Wendouree Shiraz Malbec, $110ea (12 bottles avail)

2014 Wendouree Malbec, $110ea (3 bottles avail)

not impressed at the flippers

[trufflequeen]

We have just had a couple of cases of 2014 Wendouree arrive. It is first in best dressed for orders via return email. Please allow up to 14 days for delivery.

Cheers

2014 Wendouree Shiraz Mataro, $110ea (12 bottles avail)

2014 Wendouree Cabernet Malbec, $110ea (18 bottles avail)

2014 Wendouree Shiraz Malbec, $110ea (12 bottles avail)

2014 Wendouree Malbec, $110ea (3 bottles avail)
not impressed at the flippers

Just went back to said retailer's 2013 email. Looks like they've been cheeky and upped their prices substantially, as 12 months ago it was:

2013 Wendouree Shiraz Malbec, 96 points Halliday, $79ea (12 available)
2013 Wendouree Shiraz Mataro, 96 points Halliday, $79ea (12 available)
2013 Wendouree Cabernet Malbec, 96 points Halliday, $79ea (9 available)
2013 Wendouree Malbec, 94 points Halliday, $79ea (10 available)
2013 Wendouree Cabernet Sauvignon, 97 points Halliday, $99ea (9 available)
2013 Wendouree Shiraz, 98 points Halliday, $120ea (3 available)

[phillisc]

And without giving the game away...too much.

Happened to drop into an inner eastern suburbs Adelaide pub last week and in the corner like a pretty wall flower sat 12 cartons of current vintage shiraz, and about a dozen cartons of the other five wines.
The manager happily said that the Brady's pick a few select outlets in Adelaide ( and luckily we are one of them) to supply.

He also said that several of these cases would be going straight into the boss's personal cellar and the rest to be sold. I have half a mind to pop back and see what they actually fetch.

I should not be surprised but 12 six packs seems like a pretty good allocation.

Cheers
Craig

[Matt@5453]

I've also seen each of the wines advertised for $89/btl at an Adelaide based retailer (about 5-6 weeks ago). There were about 5 cases of each.
A QLD retailer looked like they had about half a pallet too.

[sjw_11]

Fair enough Ian. With the forum interest, I'd still have expected more effort with Wendouree and that includes a punt at auction. The auction outlay is tiny compared to the hype and obsession noted here.

Be awful, the last thing to flash through your mind before passing is that you should have drunk some of your Wendouree.... and imagine the new scarcity factor if we all drunk a bit more.

I agree... when I was still based in Oz I bought quite a few aged Wendouree at auction which is what convinced me I should start cellaring them myself. If you chase the Cab Malbec and other blends rather than top vintage shiraz then the prices at auction are very reasonable and the nature of the wine means poor cellaring is (less) of an issue than with some other wine styles.

[phillisc]

What would you prefer?

Sam I have thought long about your comment.

I think going to the winery in about 1987 and tasting the range with Tony and then buying a few bottles started it all for me.
What attracts me is the quiet way the Brady's go about it, no bullshit or pretension and they are very respectful to their customers.

If the prices go up, then I can make a decision.
The second hand market will always be there.

My response in answer to your question is neither option...the status quo can be maintained...certainly seems to the decision the Brady's have taken for decade or two now.
Equally, I just laugh and applaud Tony's response made in relation to the moronic proposition by a wine writer a couple of weeks ago, imploring him to raise the prices substantially

Why??...only Tony knows the answer and he is keeping that to himself.

Cheers
Craig

[JamieBahrain]

Hey Craig have you have a reference to that article or the wine writer? Would love to read.

BTW, just offered Wendouree shiraz 2013 in HKG at $200AUD per bottle.

"2013 Wendouree Shiraz x 6 was $1488 now $1188 Cult Wine"

[JamieBahrain]

Got the article in question - thanks!

I'd suggest to Mr Halliday there's more in it for the Australian wine industry from where I sit, to have Wendouree as a bit of a traditional beacon and leave marketering for Brand Australia which really needs it.