Does a poor cellar door experience affect your decision to support the said winery?

[Rocky]

I recently completed another Margaret River drive tour with mixed emotions. Don't get me wrong, I love the region and feel honoured to have the ability to regularly visit, however a recent cellar door incident has left me questioning whether I should continue my support of a particular winery, especially when there are so many others producing comparable and even better wines.

I won't won't name and shame the winery except to say it is allegedly one the Australia's finest Cabernet blend produces and I have been buying their flagship Cabernet for the past 10 years - perhaps no more.

To the event in question. Upon entry I was keen to taste the recent release of Cabernet but was told there is no Cabernet for tasting, " you will have to return in 3 weeks". I couldn't believe it. I asked a second time thinking I mis-heard but no the same response. I then asked to taste the flagship Cabernet but was told there is a $5 tasting fee now. Again, I couldn't believe it, especially after just visiting Woodlands whose tasting room experience is inviting, professional and inspiring. Both their last 2 year's flagships for tasting plus several small releases. Likewise my visit to Cape Grace was brilliant and inspiring resulting in purchases.

is this a case of me experiencing a taste of 'sour grapes' or is it true your cellar door experience can impact your loyalty and buying pattern?

[Bobthebuilder]

curiousity is killing me!
any chance of dropping a couple more names that aren't the subject winery???

[Hacker]

I'm glad it wasn't Woodlands, they were wonderful when I was there 3 weeks ago. Annoyingly many wineries charge that for their flagships, Cullen being one of them. Some Hunter Valley wineries charge $5 for tasting any wines, refundable with a purchase.
I can only assume that in your case the next vintage wine was not on premises, maybe being bottled?? Even that doesn't really make much sense.

[Scotty vino]

If I'm on the knife edge of buying and the service is average it may sway me from a purchase.
Also I find that when some CD's get busy they lose track of where they're at and get stuck
with one tasting group for too long. I like the staffers who know how to move around and keep it going.
It can sway me from buying if I'm left hanging for too long.

I don't mind paying to taste if there's a rebate in place. In my experience that's always the case with tasting fees.
My most memorable tasting of late was at Yangarra. $10 to taste but left with some really nice stemless
glasses along with the vino. The Staff member was really knowledgeable and friendly and couldn't do enough.
Open fire was cranking, views were awesome and the vino is superb.

[Polymer]

I'm not sure I'd count that as a poor cellar door experience.

I'm sure you were disappointed but would I count it against the winery if a wine wasn't available (it wasn't going to be ready for 3 weeks).

5 dollars for a premium tasting..I dunno....If you compare that to say, Napa Valley, that's a steal...If you compare it to a lot of places in Australia then maybe that feels weird....although I've noticed that more and more places are starting to do something like that.. with a good chunk of them offering that money back if you buy something...

A poor experience to me would be one where the staff is rude or not the least bit attentive...Or if they're overly pushy with sales...

I mean, whatever it is to you is what it is to you..I'd be disappointed too if wines I wanted to try weren't available..but I wouldn't hold it against a place...

[dave vino]

Yeah I had a bad experience at Jim Barry about 5 years ago. They totally didn't want to be there or serve us or engage with us. Didn't want to open anything. Never bought a bottle of their stuff since.

[calm]

I'm sure the wine tastes better as well!
Great tasting experience at Brokenwood and Mt Pleasant last week during a brief Hunter detour.

[Matt@5453]

Some interesting responses here.

From my experience there are plenty of "wine wankers" around that give cellar door staff grief; punters that are rude, think they know all, spend more, tasted better and so on. Yeah sure cellar door staff should give equal service, but some personalities are hard to deal with rationally. In a recent trip to Rusden there was this absolute f@ck wit that persisted to talk down to the staff there , thought he knew all etc. He bought 2 cases , no discount offered, I bought 4 bottles, discount offered. Go figure?

[Polymer]

Some interesting responses here.

From my experience there are plenty of "wine wankers" around that give cellar door staff grief; punters that are rude, think they know all, spend more, tasted better and so on. Yeah sure cellar door staff should give equal service, but some personalities are hard to deal with rationally. In a recent trip to Rusden there was this absolute f@ck wit that persisted to talk down to the staff there , thought he knew all etc. He bought 2 cases , no discount offered, I bought 4 bottles, discount offered. Go figure?

That's being a rude customer though..and I don't blame staff for not wanting to deal with them..

When I say not attentive..I don't mean they're busy with other people...I mean they're busy doing nothing else...they're rather not be working there at all...They'd rather stand there and talk to other staff than help anyone that's there. When they're not busy and they have this constipated look on their face for every customer, it just gives off a bad impression for the entire winery...every time someone has your wine they'll have to remember that less than pleasant experience...

[Polymer]

Some interesting responses here.

From my experience there are plenty of "wine wankers" around that give cellar door staff grief; punters that are rude, think they know all, spend more, tasted better and so on. Yeah sure cellar door staff should give equal service, but some personalities are hard to deal with rationally. In a recent trip to Rusden there was this absolute f@ck wit that persisted to talk down to the staff there , thought he knew all etc. He bought 2 cases , no discount offered, I bought 4 bottles, discount offered. Go figure?

That's being a rude customer though..and I don't blame staff for not wanting to deal with them..

When I say not attentive..I don't mean they're busy with other people...I mean they're busy doing nothing else...they're rather not be working there at all...They'd rather stand there and talk to other staff than help anyone that's there. When they're not busy and they have this constipated look on their face for every customer, it just gives off a bad impression for the entire winery...every time someone has your wine they'll have to remember that less than pleasant experience...

[paulf]

The cellar door most definitely impacts my purchasing decisions.
I'm not going to drop serious coin on a bottle of wine that I haven't tasted, but I also don't begrudge wineries charging for tastings, particularly on their higher end stuff. I do generally expect that charges will be refunded on purchase.
I have a suspicion that that I went to the winery in question in January, and thoroughly enjoyed the cellar door experience.
If a winery is between vintages and doesn't have something available then that is just bad luck.

While I was in Margaret River, I did a small bus tour there, where we went to 5 wineries. One of those had decided that because it was a bus tour - even with only 5 people, they weren't really interested in letting us try very much and served us the cheapest stuff in tiny pours. They had absolutely zero chance of getting me to buy anything based on that. The other places were all good and I went back to a couple the following day and bought a few bottles of wine from each. Neither winery was on my radar beforehand but it is highly likely I'll buy from one of those regularly going forward.

[Rocky]

My wife summed it up perfectly when she said "the cellar door staff are just dishing off those who come for a tasting" . It is set up for lunches only and cellar tasters are treated as secondary objects. " these are not my words but from her an objective opinion but imo is spot on.

Not woodlands or moss wood who are first class but the next MR Wilyabrup producer.

[trufflequeen]

I had a poor experience at the Kilikanoon cellar door last year. I'd been out in the Clare for most of the day, and Kilikanoon was our last stop. I had some small chat with the cellar door attendant (who I think was actually the owner). I mentioned that I was on the mailing list and really enjoyed their reds, but that I was only wanting to taste a couple of special wines, which I asked him to choose. He promptly poured me Killerman's Run Cabernet and Killerman's Run shiraz. Needless to say, I wasn't very impressed with his choice of selections

[RobK]

Absolutely. Not only cellar doors but any business.

Had a cracker experience in Stanthorpe though. Went to a small boutique winery that were selling "cleanskins" that were there own wine allegedly. My brother asked the obvious question "Why are you selling your own wine as cleanskins"? The answer "Well, one day we had our barrels sitting there and we turned around and all of a sudden one young boy had pulled all the bungs out of four of the barrels. We didn't notice until later on so XXXX refermented the wine and these cleanskins are the result". Being blatantly lied to doesn't go down with me. I suppose a lot of visitors to the cellar door would have worn that but not me. Bundled my family out of there and went to the next cellar without buying anything. Any time my bullshit detector goes off at a cellar door I tend to get out of there ASAP. Like I said earlier though, doesn't have to be a cellar door, any business that comes over like that is unlikely to get my business.

[Polymer]

So do most of you consider a poor experience:

Not getting to taste all of the wines
Not having the wines you want to try available
Not being able to try the wines you want for free

I mean, I definitely don't consider it a great experience....but I won't hold it against them.

Them being rude, lying, pushy, etc...I will..even though it might just be the person that works there, that is the person they hired to represent their brand to the public....

[Mahmoud Ali]

I don't think that being out of stock/sold out of a wine constitutes a poor cellar door experience. Disappointing is probably the better term, but not poor service. Otherwise Grosset, Wendouree, and Noon's, to name a few, would be my worst cellar door experiences merely due to the fact that they were sold out, had nothing to offer, and the cellar door was closed!

So yes, a poor cellar door experience might affect my decision to buy their wines though in all honesty much would depend on the quality of the wines, however not having a wine on tasting due to depleted stocks is not what I would consider a poor experience.

Cheers.................Mahmoud.

[phillisc]

Great question, and Polymer I might add two more elements to the mix.

If you go to a CD that has particular icon wine, or what the winery is famous for, I think there is a reasonable expectation that the wine(s) are on tasting. For example when I went to Mount Mary last year, I wondered if Quintet would be on, surely it would be, and surely it was
That said, what has changed is that many wineries profess to have top shelf wines as being rare when they are not, but they are either not available or you have to pay to do a private tasting .

Second observation, is there an expectation that if you have driven from Perth to MR or Adelaide/Melbourne to Coonawarra, should all wines be on...no exceptions? You have made the effort, so should the winery reciprocate?
I have only been to MR once, Coonawarra 10-20 times. MR opened wines if we asked, but surprisingly really mixed in Coonawarra. Had to ask on many occasions could we try x and y...sometimes opened no problem...sometimes refused. Have probably had more issues here with larger wineries who sometimes give the impression that when management checks on Monday how many bottles were opened over the weekend, if it does not hurt the bottom line then good job!
I have actually said, (whether I have brought the wines previously or not is irrelevant), I have driven X K's and I would like to try your wines, surely you would appreciate that. Its not like many that I see in the CBD going to an in-store tasting and getting a skin full.

Cheers
Craig

[DJ]

Absolutely can't conceive of buying from a certain Canberra winery after carry on from owner. Shame in ways the new generation is building the reputation of what was already well reputed winery but founder/mother such an absolute bitch I can't spend anything on them despite some curiosity based on the reviews.

[Ozzie W]

One issue that hasn't been mentioned are cellar doors that serve wines at the wrong temperature, usually too hot but occasionally too cold. Especially on hot summer days, I don't want to drink a luke warm red!

If I'm at a cellar door, I'm there to taste the wines with a view to purchasing, so present the wines at their best to me, not their worst. If the winery can't get this basic and important thing right, then I'm not going to buy anything.

[dave vino]

Absolutely can't conceive of buying from a certain Canberra winery after carry on from owner. Shame in ways the new generation is building the reputation of what was already well reputed winery but founder/mother such an absolute bitch I can't spend anything on them despite some curiosity based on the reviews.

Why do I have a Gruner Veltliner taste in my mouth...

[cuttlefish]

Lark Hill have form in this department. Lol.

[deejay81]

Great tasting experience at ....Mt Pleasant last week during a brief Hunter detour.

I too have had some really great experiences there especially when I was first getting into wine. Have managed to book some private tastings for free and they've opened a few museum bottles for me just cause I asked.

They are currently my most featured wine in my cellar which only increased when they released their 2014 reds...
McWilliam's Mount Pleasant Wines 13.7%

I might dig up that old thread of who's featuring in your cellar

[Willard]

I had a great tasting at Mount Pleasant also a couple of months ago. I called in the morning to say I was a wine club member and had bought a couple of their block wines, and they put on a private tasting and opened the range of Block and Mountain wines for me which was awesome.

Granted I have spent a fair bit with them over the past 6 months, but it was a great experience. I'd read Campbell Mattinson's "The Wine Hunter" recently and the visit to the vineyards and cellar door really reaffirmed my fondness for Mount Pleasant.

And to the original question - a bad experience, with regards to rude staff etc, would certainly put me off buying from a producer. Not having wines available if they are between vintages, well sometimes it is just bad timing, I wouldn't get upset about that, but for the OP it may have been how the message was conveyed.

[Waiters Friend]

Having worked on cellar door, and experienced the really positive and the downright rude, I would maintain that if I was rude to customers, I would not be representing my employer correctly and therefore not doing my job. You can deflect customers out the door, and if necessary, evict people, without being rude or offensive.

In terms of receiving rude or indifferent service from cellar door staff, yes, it will have an impact on my opinion of the business. They would have to be bloody good wines (and presumably tasted elsewhere than cellar door) to entice me back.

[michel]

Absolutely can't conceive of buying from a certain Canberra winery after carry on from owner. Shame in ways the new generation is building the reputation of what was already well reputed winery but founder/mother such an absolute bitch I can't spend anything on them despite some curiosity based on the reviews.

Oooh yeah- many of us know the vineyard
I will never purchase from them
They shipped in hot weather over a long weekend when I specifically asked them not to

[Hacker]

What annoys me is when you walk in to a cellar door and the attendant starts saying 'this wine won a gold medal blah blah and got 95 points blah blah and has nearly sold out blah blah exclusive blah trophy blah" and the wine is very ordinary. Happens quite a bit in the Hunter.

[ticklenow1]

I'll put my 2 cents worth in. I think that if you have a good experience - you go back. Bad experience - you don't go back. But I think this applies with any sort of business. If I get good service, I become quite brand loyal, whereas if I get crap service I never buy that brand again. There are just so many options out there for most things that if a brand wants to act like ratbags, they are then on the coat with me.

As for a tasting fee. If it is only $5, I have no problems with that. Especially at the smaller producers. I haven't seen a winery yet where if you buy something it doesn't come off the bottle cost. I've actually had a few where even though I haven't bought anything, when I have offered to pay they have said don't worry about it. And for the very low production wines, I understand if they don't put them on tasting. Once again, especially at the smaller producers. But I repect the ones that do.

On our Honeymoon in the Barossa many years ago, we recieved some amazing examples of great service. At Greenock Creek Wines we were shown the whole range, including the Roennfeldt Roads. We then were just having a chat and the cellar door hand asked what we had planned for the next few days. We said that we were playing it by ear. We mentioned that we wanted to go to a certain restaurant that night but it was booked out. "Hang on he says, let me make a call". Sure enough, later that night we were dining at that restaurant. He organised a cellar tour at Henschke and a couple of other amazing tastings and tours of wineries. Now he didn't have to do that, but he did. We religously bought Greenock Creek for years and years and it's only the last year or so that I have scaled back my purchases to just the Grenache and Cabernet. Part of that is that I just have so much of it. When we got to Henschke the next day we were treated so well. They even gave us a couple of bottles to drink with our dinner that night.

At Torbreck either last year or the year before we were there quite late and they just hung around and showed us the whole range. We were the last customers and the cellar door manager (I assume) bought out a cleanskin bottle for us to try. It turned out to be the Laird. And they gave us a rather large glass of it and we all sat around and talked about all sorts of things. We didn't leave until about an hour after their normal closing. I like their wines but I never stall on buying them and part of that is because of the incredible afternoon we had there. I have had some amazing afternoons at Gomersal WInes and Ballycroft. I have gotten to know the families behind these labels and proudly call them my friends now. Barry from Gomersal and Joe from Ballycroft have always made our visits special.

I have been doing wine regions for about 15 years now and yes I've had some bad experiences, but personally I just forget those wineries exist and never go back and never buy. It's no different with retailers.

I rarely visit the massive corporate wineries anymore unless there is a very paticular wine I want to taste. It's mainly a more expensive wine I want to try before I buy. If they don't show it, I don't buy it. There is so much good wine out there that I will just spend my money elsewhere.

Cheers
Ian

[Rocky]

What annoys me is when you walk in to a cellar door and the attendant starts saying 'this wine won a gold medal blah blah and got 95 points blah blah and has nearly sold out blah blah exclusive blah trophy blah" and the wine is very ordinary. Happens quite a bit in the Hunter.

Ha! Couldn't agree more and trust me it is common in WA too. I call this the Cellar Door Litmus Test. If the cellar door attendant mentions any 'awards' within the first 2 mins I will immediately turn off. Happened three times during my recent Margaret River, Denmark and Porongurup wine tour. Despite this annoyance I ended up buying couple of the Riesling I was tasting at a Denmark winery from the young lady who had told me all about the awards within the first minute. Just to annoy me even further, when i asked to purchase two of the 2015 riesling i was tasting she bought out the 2016 riesling. After I pointed this out to her she said "it is the same" On the positive i ended up with some nice riesling and an amusing story.

[Ozzie W]

Not a bad experience per se, but I find it rather annoying when I receive a marketing call from a winery trying to sell me stuff when I'm already a regular customer. Is it too much to ask that they look at my purchase history before calling? The telemarketer is always very excited to tell me about the new releases they've got and how many Halliday points it got. It's always interesting to hear the response when I inform them I've already purchased said wines.

[Bobthebuilder]

Just to annoy me even further, when i asked to purchase two of the 2015 riesling i was tasting she bought out the 2016 riesling. After I pointed this out to her she said "it is the same" On the positive i ended up with some nice riesling and an amusing story.

That's gold Jerry, GOLD!!!