Australias best Bordeaux blend?

[tonym]

What is in your opinion the best Bordeaux blend made in Australia that is close to the older style Bordeaux wines? I have read a bit about the great wines of Bordeaux before the Robert Parker effect which critics seem to say caused them to go bigger on alcohol and a far heavier style of wine and lost their finesse and they say the wines are not the same as they used to be, but have never tasted such wines as generally price excludes me from that part of the market. I realise our wines are not the same as Bordeaux and they but is there anything close made here in the new world of wines.

[rooman]

Moss Wood on a year in, year out basis

[felixp]

Without wanting to cause controversy, to answer that question, you have to consider all that is Bordeaux. If you have been there, you will have noted the uniqueness of the place... the general weather, the light, the soils, the micro-climates, the people, and of course, the history. All of which anywhere in Australia does not have, nor anywhere in the world for that matter.
Bordeaux is Bordeaux, and I strongly believe that anyone who has a philosophy to replicate the region in some other part of the world is doomed to failure. (even Moss Wood, with it's original "Pichon Lalande-esq" labelling has, sensibly, given up that notion.)
RPJ did not do any more than get the Bordelaise to wake up and look around themselves
, by the 1980's the world was becoming a far smaller place, travel internationally was common-place and as a result, excellent regions such as Napa, Barossa Coonawarra, Stellenbosch, Marlborough, Mendoza etc gained far more exposure and therefore posed a far greater threat to the wines of Bordeaux. The region had experienced a terrible decade in the 70's, where there were really no excellent vintages, and only 70, 75 and 78 merely above average, if that. So the wines of Australia and the rest of the New World started to pop up all over the shops in the UK, and the USA to a lesser extent, causing serious erosion of the bordeaux market. Why? Because 80% of the Bordeaux market was crap, resting on their laurels and continuing to make bad wine that the average Englishman accepted because it went with his equally rotten English food (I was born in the UK and went to school there at that time)
Parker was only one of several wine critics that pushed for change in Bordeaux, and over a relatively short period of time, the Bordelaise actually pulled their finger out, and made infinitely better wine from their superb terroir. Thank goodness.
"Parkerised" Bordeaux is a shocking nonsense, and I personally detest the description. "Rollanised" wine, I accept, but the former is pretty much some sort of dumb slander often termed by ignorant British wine critics.
Yes, the wines are generally higher in alcohol, for two reasons. Firstly, the Bordelaise actually picked the grapes at the right time (again thank goodness) and swiftly, with far more stringent sorting (costing them more money), and secondly, the region has, over the past 25 years in particular, experienced a number of warmer vintages. (and I do not want to get into a global-warming argument)
As some-one exposed to the wines of 60's and 70's Bordeaux 40 years ago, I would say that the region has improved 200% since those dark days. The wines did not have more finesse, just more green stalks, unripe grapes and other signs of poor/lazy viticulture and vinification.
And since the mid-90's, the introduction and use of the internet has changed the whole wine ball park. A wine lover can go onto the net and receive thousands of opinions re any particular wine, new or old world, and base his buying choices on a raft of opinions... in the old days, we only had the word of a few famous critics via post/magazine, making choices limited and difficult. (bit like the BS ski reports we got before snow-cams came into being). This further pushed the quality boundaries of the Bordeaux wines.
So, rant over, Parker is not responsible for the 15% St Emilion wines, there are a multitude of factors there.

Anyway, my consistently favourite "Bordeaux" blend is Moss Wood. Pinfold's 707 lately has been a star, and might take over from MW very shortly.
However, Grosset's Gaia, in great vintages, is perhaps the wine closest to Bordeaux in taste, often having a strong resemblance to a mid-tier Pomerol. I love and buy the wine in said vintages.
And to add a little spice, Cullen's has become my greatest "under performer" in the Australian wine industry, IMO.

[Rocky]

Felixp

I have come to appreciate and respect your view posted. Can you please elaborate on your comment 'under performer Cullen.

Regards

[grapeobserver]

Agree Bordeaux is a large topic, and love left-bank Bordeaux so have given this something of a go.

For left-bank similarish styles, candidates include (when on song):

Cru classé style:
Yarra Yering Dry Red No.1
Moss Wood

Cru bourgeois style:
Domaine A
Wantirna Estate
The Mcalister, Gippsland
Mount Mary (sometimes)
A few others from the Yarra Valley sometimes get there too e.g. Medhurst and even in warm Bendigo, e.g. older Balgownies.

Other - vintage dependent:
Bowen Estate (with a bit of age)
Bin 707 (have had one vintage resembling a first growth namely the '66, but not enough recents to comment)
Murdock cab sav (loved the '00 but now winery seems no more)

Cullen not so much. Probably agree with the underperform tag. Latest tasted '12 I mistook blind for a pleasant, if not amazing, cold climate cab say from say a Macedon.

No right-bank Bordeaux Australian styles come to mind. The comments above obviously ignore the ocean of cheap unoaked red Bordeaux.

[swirler]

Although not many regular posters like Cullen, I think they are fantastic across the board.

Strangely, I'm not the only one.....

There are so many other producers of great cabernet and blends from all over Australia, like Woodlands, Voyager, Xanadu, Vasse Felix, Yarra Yering, Yeringberg, Mt Mary, Wynns, Balnaves, Majella, Domain A, Giaconda, etc.,

It really depends on personal preference. Yarra Valley in warm years makes the most Bordeauxesque wine IMHO.

The key question is: should Australia be trying to emulate Old World wine and, if not, what should its target. Making tasty alcoholic beverages or 'terroir' wines that aren't necessarily tasty or both?

[tonym]

I don't think Australia should be trying to make wine the same as Bordeaux but we should have our own style. The reason I asked the question is because the Bordeaux wines are out of reach for me at the prices they ask so I wondered what would be close. I am a bit of a fan of Cabernet and Shiraz but havn't had much experience with the Cabernet blends

[Waiters Friend]

Yeringberg in a good year, and with at least 10 years age.

[dave vino]

Lakes Folly Cabernets is also a good option.

[Phil Wilkins]

Moss Wood Special Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon 1994. After that I agree with felixp.

[deejay81]

Ive had some really good Gaia's and some very ordianry Gaia's...
None really in the middle...
So yeah I guess only in good vintages they are worth buying.

[Mike Hawkins]

Not sure I agree with the Moss Wood view. When people speak of Bordeaux, the implication is that the wines are blended (obviously a generalisation). With Moss Wood being 90%+ cabernet sauvignon in many vintages, I'd be looking elsewhere. That said, Moss Wood is arguably my favourite Australian cabernet based wine (707 is good, but sometimes the vanillan oak is too much)......

Years ago I bought lots of Petaluma Coonawarra, but it hasn't really kicked on as expected.

[Ozzie W]

No right-bank Bordeaux Australian styles come to mind.

Blue Poles Allouran

[Scotty vino]

I was under the impression the Grosset Gaia is a bordeaux style blend.
Liked the 2010 a lot. The 2011 i was scratching my head a bit. skipped that one.
but I'm back on board with the 2012 which I think will cellar very well indeed.

[swirler]

No right-bank Bordeaux Australian styles come to mind.

Blue Poles Allouran

Grey Sands, too.

[swirler]

Moss Wood Special Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon 1994. After that I agree with felixp.

Phil, you're UK based, right? Just out of interest, how many of my list have you tried multiple vintages of? Just curious.

[felixp]

Felixp

I have come to appreciate and respect your view posted. Can you please elaborate on your comment 'under performer Cullen.

Regards

..... for a $100+ wine, my experiences are pretty ordinary, with the exception of 95 and 96. I don't find it ages particularly well, in stark contrast to Moss Wood. I was on the mailing list for a long time, still have a lot of 90's stuff and some 80's stuff, but they have not provided any real highlights, as I said with the exception of those two vintage. Just a personal opinion, others would disagree, which is fine... all about personal taste

[felixp]

Moss Wood Special Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon 1994. After that I agree with felixp.

.... last of the reserves. The 1980 reserve was absolutely spectacular for 25 years, my fave Moss Wood. But for me, I had trouble telling the 94 reserve from the regular bottling. Good call though, those 90 MW's really had a left bank feel about them. Not sure that is still the case. I'm hoping the 2010 will develop into something special, but we will see. I had similar hopes for 2001, but they were not realised!

[rooman]

Yeringberg in a good year, and with at least 10 years age.

Pretty well any well made Australian cab Sav needs at least 12-13 years in the bottle. The big ones like John Riddoch and 707 need at least 20. I opened one of the 98 JRs recently and whilst it is drinkable in so far as the tannins have softened, it is still a decade off seeing any substantial secondary development.

Mark

[mjs]

Yeringberg in a good year, and with at least 10 years age.

Pretty well any well made Australian cab Sav needs at least 12-13 years in the bottle. The big ones like John Riddoch and 707 need at least 20. I opened one of the 98 JRs recently and whilst it is drinkable in so far as the tannins have softened, it is still a decade off seeing any substantial secondary development.

Mark

I agree with the 12-13 yr comment. I have some '98 707 in magnums and it would still be vinfanticide to open them for a while yet.

Just a minor OT comment on terminology. I would normally describe development in the bottle as "tertiary" development, primary being fruit and fermentation, secondary being time in barrel. Guess it depends on whether you are talking characteristics or development.

[swirler]

I think of secondary flavours as the non-fruit flavours that are present at the start of a wine's life, such as liquorice, meat, vanilla.

It'd be interesting to see what others think......

[michel]

In the spirit of the exercise

1977 Mt Mary

[Chris H]

Don't think he can access that one though Michel

[swirler]

Hammer Time?

[Chris H]

That's one alias

[michel]

Don't think he can access that one though Michel

My recent bottle from auction was a tad flat but prior to that I had one that was purchased from cellar door and cellared brilliantly and it was long and pure.

the other freak great Australian cab was the Howard Park 1994.

[RogerPike]

Blue Poles for sure.

Check out Whitey's notes: http://indaily.com.au/food-wine/wine/20 ... of-merlot/

Roger

[swirler]

And there's a McLaren Vale winery he likes, too....

[Gavin Trott]

Blue Poles for sure.

Check out Whitey's notes: http://indaily.com.au/food-wine/wine/20 ... of-merlot/

Roger

Agreed.

Blue Poles Wines now coming to auswine! Superb Wines, very passionate and intense owners/makers, and serious serious wines.

.

[JamieBahrain]

My recent bottle from auction was a tad flat but prior to that I had one that was purchased from cellar door and cellared brilliantly and it was long and pure.

the other freak great Australian cab was the Howard Park 1994.

1969 Lakes Folly, 1978 Cyril Henschke….ok, ok …

I do like Henschke's Abbott's Prayer as a BDX foil. Though generally, I find Barossan cab blends a mistake.