The Barolo / Barbaresco / Nebbiolo thread

[winz]

Not very experienced at constructing tasting notes, usually more focused on enjoying rather than analysing, but here goes.. !

2010 Benevelli Piero Barolo Ravera - quite reductive on the nose upon opening, but after 2 to 3 hours in the decanter, becoming quite perfumed, feminine and floral - first thing that came to mind: this is what the colour indigo would smell like! Initially and persistent throughout is the delicate earl grey-like tannin, balanced by enough fruit depth for me to call it medium bodied, and just the right amount of acid to lift and drive through the palate; the oak treatment in my opinion is minimal and well-integrated.

I feel as though I may have committed vinfanticide, and as such, will leave my remaining bottles for a fair while longer..

[Gary W]

Still showing its class. Need my 2011's to arrive so I stop drinking the the 2010's which I think will be all class in 10 years +.

Bought a bunch of these myself. Still surprised PdB did not make any crus in 2010! Have samples of 2011 crus arriving in the new year, and I reckon Barbaresco is a bit better than Barolo (from what I've tasted, anyway) in 2011

[winetastic]

Not very experienced at constructing tasting notes, usually more focused on enjoying rather than analysing, but here goes.. !

2010 Benevelli Piero Barolo Ravera - quite reductive on the nose upon opening, but after 2 to 3 hours in the decanter, becoming quite perfumed, feminine and floral - first thing that came to mind: this is what the colour indigo would smell like! Initially and persistent throughout is the delicate earl grey-like tannin, balanced by enough fruit depth for me to call it medium bodied, and just the right amount of acid to lift and drive through the palate; the oak treatment in my opinion is minimal and well-integrated.

I feel as though I may have committed vinfanticide, and as such, will leave my remaining bottles for a fair while longer..

Excellent note, welcome aboard.

I have a couple of these in the cellar, wish I had bought more now...

[winetastic]

Still showing its class. Need my 2011's to arrive so I stop drinking the the 2010's which I think will be all class in 10 years +.

Been through 3 bottles myself over the last 6 months, love the restraint here, a wine that asks you politely to come to it rather than it coming to you.

^ that may have been the most wine-wankery thing I have ever said.

[Chris H]

Is that a picture of the new Zalto green glass Jamie ?

Classy wine that 2010 Benevelli - needs time in the cellar as you say Winz.

[JF]

Still showing its class. Need my 2011's to arrive so I stop drinking the the 2010's which I think will be all class in 10 years +.

Bought a bunch of these myself. Still surprised PdB did not make any crus in 2010! Have samples of 2011 crus arriving in the new year, and I reckon Barbaresco is a bit better than Barolo (from what I've tasted, anyway) in 2011

Gary are you sure PdB made crus in 2011?

[ajh]

Tried the 2011 PdB at cellar door a couple of months ago, alongside the 2010. The latter was more impressive, with the 2011, while very good, not having the palate intensity of the 2010. Figure the 2011 may have been slightly stripped of stuffing with the best of the individual crus being separately bottled.
Trying the 2011 Benevelli Ravera Di Monforte tonight, and over the next couple of days. Definitely more gravelly and grunt in the tannins than the 2010. Be interesting to see how it opens up.

[Michael McNally]

Excellent note, welcome aboard.

Agree. Excellent note, thanks.

Cheers

Michael

[JamieBahrain]

Still showing its class. Need my 2011's to arrive so I stop drinking the the 2010's which I think will be all class in 10 years +.

Bought a bunch of these myself. Still surprised PdB did not make any crus in 2010! Have samples of 2011 crus arriving in the new year, and I reckon Barbaresco is a bit better than Barolo (from what I've tasted, anyway) in 2011

I read or heard that the Produttori is only ever as good as its worst vineyard performance so the whole riserva range declassified in 2010 due "dilution" of quality of some of the Barbaresco.

I had a few 2010's versus 2011 Barbarescos from various producers from bottlings from Rabaja, Ovello and Albesani and I found the 2011 were showing a much higher degree of ripeness compared to the 2010 which were more classical.

[JamieBahrain]

I've opened a few for the next few days- they don't oxidize they just get more interesting over a few days.

Marchesi di Gresy Martinenga Langhe DOC Nebbiolo 2010- A highly recommended producer and this nebbiolo is from Martinenga which is a Barbaresco Monopole. Please visit if in the area you will be captivated and Kiwi cellar master Jeffrey Chilcott is a great host.

Delicate and pure, with a simple elegance that doesn't place the fruit near the heights of the Cru Barbarescos in the same fields. Airy, classic roses and the aromatic depth is tar and darker fruits. Some inviting jammy ( Italian ) red fruits and spices, typical Martinenga grip and elegance. Joyful!

Day 2 : Fleshed out nicely and had me standing up one of their Cru's for drinking in the next few days.


Olek Bondonio Barbaresco 2011- I'm happy to help get an appointment with Olek for any visitors,. His vineyard is unique being placed between two Gaja vineyards in Roncagliette ( Costa Russi and Sori Tilden ). His wife is a great chef and her family owns Castello di Verduno- near La Morra. Lovely people well worth connecting with if in Piedmont.

This is a big and ripe Barbaresco with a kaleidoscope of black fruits, pepper and Chinato like China bark. Full with a fair whack of oak in a fruit tussle giving a hard texture but gee its a great wine that will go for 20+…..

Day 2: The wine settled and was less exotic aromatically. There's a layer of planky, restrained oak in cahoots with the overall structure of the wine. I sent a dozen of these to Oz and will leave for 15 years. I have a heap here in HKG and I'll just enjoy without too much thought.

[Gary W]

I've opened a few for the next few days- they don't oxidize they just get more interesting over a few days.
Olek Bondonio Barbaresco 2011- I'm happy to help get an appointment with Olek for any visitors,. His vineyard is unique being placed between two Gaja vineyards in Roncagliette ( Costa Russi and Sori Tilden ). His wife is a great chef and her family owns Castello di Verduno- near La Morra. Lovely people well worth connecting with if in Piedmont.

This is a big and ripe Barbaresco with a kaleidoscope of black fruits, pepper and Chinato like China bark. Full with a fair whack of oak in a fruit tussle giving a hard texture but gee its a great wine that will go for 20+…..

I love that wine, the Bondonio. There's no new oak in it though, nor small format. It's big old oak and concrete eggs and fibreglass and stainless. Not sure where the oak is coming from...
Had his Olek Bondonio Langhe Rosso Giulietta 2014 - Pelaverga last week. Terrific!!

[JamieBahrain]

Thanks Gary.

Olek's 2011 regular Barbaresco settled on day two. The oak is gentler and as you would expect from bigger Slavonian barrels after a few years. When Olek got his new barrels local commentators said to me it would take a few years for his wines to settle being a small winery though the confidence in the quality was there. I was just very surprised by some of the characteristics of the wine last night that seemed new wood induced.

I know he's expanded with a vineyard lease over Neive way- Starderi I think. Not sure if he bought more barrels I could ask him but he's proud of rarely responding to emails.

[winetastic]

Picked up a bunch of 'drink now' bottles at auction last night for only $21 each (including buyers premium etc.):
x17 Cigliuti Langhe Nebbiolo 2012

Took a bit of a punt here having never tasted it, however Gary gave the 2013 a big thumbs up and Antonio Galloni said it is essentially Barbaresco with a little less barrel and bottle age than mandated by law, so fingers crossed.

Looking at the suggested drinking windows, could potentially cellar for a few years as well, might tuck a couple away.

[JamieBahrain]

That's good buying.

I see many people moan Italian wine prices in Australia but at the auctions there seem to be occasional bargains.

[winetastic]

I see many people moan Italian wine prices in Australia but at the auctions there seem to be occasional bargains.

It can go both ways, often the 'current release' of various wines go for more than the retail price as well (even before buyers premium), which is somewhat perplexing. From time to time some bargains do crop up, just need to shift through many lots with unreasonable starting prices.

[vovo]

x17 Cigliuti Langhe Nebbiolo 2012

Well done, let us know how it goes

[JamieBahrain]

Jasper Hill Georgia Paddock Nebbiolo 2004- An affable Italian gent in a V-B singlet. The tar is brooding and near prune like. The roses are more dried and native with eucalypt decay. The structure is very good and all in all an intriguing wine. I will hunt down Ron's nebbiolo in the future with interest.

[ajh]

Recent comparitive tasting over a few days of Giuseppe Cortese Rabaja 2011 and Benevelli Piero Monforte Ravera 2011.
Two very different expressions. Cortese appeared the better of the two, with great transparency, freshness and balance. The Benevelli, appeared heavier with the warmer vintage, with swathes of gravelly tannin and dark fruit, against the cherry fruit and finer tannin of the full flavoured Cortese. Both improved over 3 days, particularly the Benevelli.
Also very impressed with the Giovanni Rosso Nebbiolo 2013. Great expression and looks good for the Barolo from this vintage.

[JamieBahrain]

I had a these two beauties over three different bottles. Museum stock from Cappellano and Cavallotto a recent release that is a must by though unobtainable it would seem.


Cavallotto Barolo Bricco Boschis 2010- This is from a their monopole of Bricco Boschis in Castiglione Falletto.

The 2010 is one of the most complete young Barolos I've ever tasted. It's true to the vintage with an uncanny equilibrium of aromatics and flavor profiles within a comprehensive framework that offers a degree of finesse which is what I love about the Crus of Castiglione Falletto. I loved the 2008's of both San Giuseppe Riserva and the Riserva Vignolo and bought cases of both; it is undeniable in quality that needs an evolution but the contrast with the 2010 vintage is dramatic, even for the generic Cru. The 2010 will convert Burgundy and Bordeaux lovers to the region; and any other fine wine aficionados I might add. My only criticism is it's too good and too complete, lacking the classical structural drive of Barolo that differentiates it from the other great wine regions.

96pts+


Cappellanno Pie Rupestris Barolo 2005- I like 05. I go long on it as it's cheap and classical and entering a window. Cappellano is to a lesser extent than Cavallotto another unheralded producer to the wider fine wine world . The vineyard is Gabutti in Serralunga and the two wines are wonderful- Franco is more intense with ungifted and original rootstock whilst Rupestris is grafted American rootstock from older vines so go figure !

The 2005 is pretty yet vibrant, with a purity of textbook red and black fruits that flows about the minerally intense Serralunga backbone. I opened a third bottle and went back for more and it was gone. Great stuff!

92pts

[rmack]

Hi all, I'm going to be spending three days in Barolo and barbaresco in a couple of weeks time with the intention of visiting two producers each day.

Is anyone able to recommend some cantinas for me to contact and arrange appointments with? My Italian is not good at all so I'd be looking for producers that can speak ok English.

Thanks very much.

Rob

[vovo]

Not sure about Cantina's but in terms of producers Elio Grasso was a great experience for us. The guy running the tasting Robert is from Brisbane. Easily the best tasting we did. We visited around harvest and found it hard to visit some producers. Your accommodation can hopefully make some appointments for you.

I found the cantinas required no contact and you could just rock up, even back vintages. Just remember everything shuts for lunch though.

[ajh]

In Barbaresco I would recommend visiting Giuseppe Cortese and Olek Bondonio. In Barolo, if you can pre book by ringing, Bartolo Mascarello is seminal traditional producer ( Alan Manley who works there is American) Also if you pre book can recommend Vietti and Massolino. Massimo at Benevelli Piero is a great guy and spends quite a bit of time in Yarra with Hoddles Creek.
For lunch time destinations can highly recommend Profumo di Vino in Treiso (Barbaresco)( Great Food), and Osteria La Salita in Monforte d'Alba (great wine list and food). Bovio(La Morra) is very good for evenings. Hope this helps.

[Ian S]

Hi all, I'm going to be spending three days in Barolo and barbaresco in a couple of weeks time with the intention of visiting two producers each day.

Is anyone able to recommend some cantinas for me to contact and arrange appointments with? My Italian is not good at all so I'd be looking for producers that can speak ok English.

Thanks very much.

Rob

Hi Rob
If you want to find out who has English speakers, days they'll take visitors, whether there is a tasting fee, etc. then the excellent Alba-based tourist office have an extensive listing http://www.langheroero.it They even started a booking service which had no charge except for no shows which seems fair.

It's easy to compile a list of 'must see' producers, but I'd recommend selecting only half the wineries by what you know today. Then grab the Langhe Roero site, plus google maps: "cantina" + "<the village of the winery you chose>". Then scout around them for other names and you'll often find 2-3 in easy walking distance. By planning this way, the designated driver can park up at (e.g.) the lunchtime restaurant, and can taste freely in the morning. A good long lunch later and maybe a *walk or another winery visit where they don't taste, and they've been part of the experience but are still safe to drive. Have you worked out where you'll be based? Ideally you could have one day where the car never moves.

* the walking is excellent, and because of the typically shared vineyard ownership, the vineyards are almost all open to walk through. It is very enjoyable to stroll through seeing a new famous vineyard name appear every 5 mins. There is a good local walking map for about €8 (from the local tourist offices) though if aiming for a major landmark such as La Morra or Castiglione Falletto, then it's difficult to get lost.

Do try what Italian you have - the locals are very forgiving of garbled attempts.

Tourism. I'm a little hypocritical, but I don't like the company of too many tourists in Italy. The more mass tourism hits, the more I just want to leave and go somewhere else. Barolo (the village) is starting to get to me like this, and there are now regular coach parties and much that now caters for / targets them. Barbaresco is nowhere near as bad, but still gets coaches turn up. The other villages (Verduno, Rodda, Monforte, Serralunga, Castiglione, Novello, Treiso & Neive etc.) don't suffer this and for me are much better for it. Treiso for instance has 4 restaurants and they are all good in their different ways. Monforte is a great base as there is a bit more normal infrastructure, but also great restaurants (La Salita is indeed good and I'll add Le Case della Saraacca with a wonderful aperitivo spread in the early evening and an interesting selection of wines from enomatic machines). Indeed I'd back up all of ajh's food suggestions (Bovio's pasta is indeed very good, made by the daughter of the place we stayed in Monforte).

Favourite winery visits we've had:
(Lo)Renzo Accomasso - Spartan tasting room, Spartan experience (3 wines tasted in 1.5 hours) yet Renzo is brilliantly old-school, very much a wine farmer rather than vigneron / jet set. No English, so I had to rely on flaky Italian, but it remains one of our most memorable visits anywhere.

Mauro Molino - Near Accomasso in Annuziata (down the hill from La Morra). Moderrnist leaning (they are near the high priest Altare), but these are very good wines, well priced and the children are doing a great job taking greater charge. Really nice / professional family.

Ratti (Annunziata-La Morra) - Actually we didn't much care for the wines, but they proudly took us on a grand tour of their modern cantina, and gave us some free posters (their historic vintage charts sit behind me in the office).

Cascina Ballarin (Annunziata-Barolo) - Awfully bad at keeping appointments, but they do a really great / great value nebbiolo and good/fairly priced Barolo, that often seem to have a hint of tartufo bianco

Marchesi di Barolo (Barolo) - Memorable in a bad way. They appear fat, dumb and happy on the prestige of their name and the visiting tourist trade. We still have a soft spot for them, as it was one of their Barolo wines that was the first that the brains of the operation tasted. I'd expected the worst when we arranged the visit, and they met my expectations.

Giovanni Manzone (Monforte)- Another with that sits between modern & traditional (tbh few now inhabit the zealous extremes and most have learnt to make more subtle changes to tradition). Some very good Barolo wines and another with fine views from the winery

Schiavenza (Serralunga) - A recent discovery and one of the most impressive I've encountered in recent times. Youngish very questing (probably obsessive) family, but who just seem to work very hard. Very hospitable welcome, and their restaurant does classics very well (with an occasional modern twist) for very little money. They also do their own wines by the glass so it can be a nice way to sample with food (Bovio IIRC do the same). However the Barolo wines are the stars and all were impressive (we didn't think much of their Dolcetto/Langhe nebbiolo though)

Ca Nova (Barbaresco) - in the village but based in a sprawling and slightly unkempt set of farm buildings, this was very laid back, yet I really liked the wines and the prices are awfully cheap. One to look out for on restaurant lists as they are IMO very good value.

Albino Rocca (a short walk from Barbaresco) - Used to be a bit modernist, now just really impressive across their pretty wide range. The Barbaresco wines are great, but they also do a brilliant Moscato and Cortese (the grape of Gavi). A fantastic choice for all-round good wines & good hospitality.

Fratelli Grasso (Treiso) - will be unknown I'm sure in Aussie, and indeed would be mostly unknown in Italy. Nice family setup in another slightly unkempt setting. Wonderfully relaxed, but this sort of place illustrates why it's nice to get a variety of names + virtual unknowns. The wines are decent, but not great, but at the prices offered are very good indeed. I did feel a little guilty walking away (~ 3 years ago) with a magnum of 1996 single vineyard Barbaresco for IIRC €25

Burlotto (Verduno) - Great & wide range, engaging winemaker, lovely village and some very fine Barolo wines

Hope this helps, but if you've got a specific village you'll be staying in, then I might have other suggestions.

regards
Ian

P.S. in terms of style (modernist vs Trad) this may be useful. It's a community built resource, and shouldn't be viewed as definitive, nor indeed a statement on quality.
http://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/vie ... 1&t=106291

[Ian S]

I found the cantinas required no contact and you could just rock up, even back vintages. Just remember everything shuts for lunch though.

There are some that take drop-ins, but I'd caution that this would be the exception and not the rule. That's not to say they might not accommodate someone who just turned up, but Piemontese hospitality likes to know they're receiving visitors, so can ensure they are properly looked after.

Produttori del Barbaresco for instance have a cellar door, you can just stroll into. Without an appointment however, you'll find them disinterested (they assume that you are if you don't make an appointment). The only exception I've experienced is Sergio Giudice in Serralunga d'Alba, a most charming and engaging elderly gentleman who has been making Barolo for decades and sits in his front room accepting drop in visitors for a tasting. I really should have added him above, plus Boasso / Gabutti whose apartments we stayed in - great Barolo and a truly wonderful Barbera for the price, but another very much under the radar.

A good point about lunch in Italy, typically from 12:30-1pm to 3:30-4pm, and if you don't plan for it, can leave a great sense of frustration. One good solution is to have a long leisurely lunch from ~ 1-3pm and then fit in a walk, ending up in a village/town for a cooling & tasty gelato (they have such a diverse and intense range in so many places, and with fierce competition to keep them on their toes).

regards
Ian

[Ian S]

A final thought

Barolo and Barbaresco are rightly lauded, but at the dining table, other grapes can perform very well. Barbera and Dolcetto, but also Freisa, Grignolino and Pelaverga. Then there is the hot grape on the block, but one well worth being aware of - Timorasso. Think the body depth of a good marsanne/roussanne with intensity and complexity (though occasionally a little hot), and often a perfect all-rounder if the dining table is split between red/white meat or even veggie dishes.

Then there is Moscato d'Asti (I still have yet to find a bad one, but Albino Rocca and La Spinetta (Bricco Quaglia & Biancospina) do absolute belters & Loazzolo offers a very interesting take on the grape. The red wine equivalent Brachetto offers much of the same simple joy, and Brachetto has become my default aperitivo of choice. Both are amazingly good matches for chocolate / chocolate desserts, but moscato is juts a great all-rounder for matching to desserts.

[JamieBahrain]

In Barbaresco I would recommend visiting Giuseppe Cortese and Olek Bondonio. In Barolo, if you can pre book by ringing, Bartolo Mascarello is seminal traditional producer ( Alan Manley who works there is American) Also if you pre book can recommend Vietti and Massolino. Massimo at Benevelli Piero is a great guy and spends quite a bit of time in Yarra with Hoddles Creek.
For lunch time destinations can highly recommend Profumo di Vino in Treiso (Barbaresco)( Great Food), and Osteria La Salita in Monforte d'Alba (great wine list and food). Bovio(La Morra) is very good for evenings. Hope this helps.

Olek's wife is an acclaimed chef at Castello di Verduno which is worth a dinner and you can kill two birds with one stone and have a look at the wines of Castello di Verduno as well. The wine list is great though when I last reported in Aussie dollar terms things were about 25% better for you.

[JamieBahrain]

You'll need a reference book and I suggest you get this on Kindle-


Barolo and Barbaresco: The King and Queen of Italian Wine.


Excellent reference and you can get a feel of each Barolo or Barbaresco communes, history ( so so important but lost on the vinous technocrats ), wines and soil types. As a beginner a great book though slightly controversial amongst the seriously obsessed!

Ian mentioned lesser known varietals - now there's a separate thread and I suggest you stick to the main Barolo & Barbaresco communes and perhaps have a look at these as an aperitif over dinner.

[JamieBahrain]

Olek Bondonio Barbaresco "Roncagliette" 2011- Over a few days this opens up nicely in a complex dark fruit spectrum. Hardly the Queen of nebbiolo ! It needs decade due fierce extract and tannin and the normal Barbaresco a better proposition at the moment.

[winetastic]

Thank you Ian S for all the excellent visiting info, ill be heading to Barolo/Barbaresco in March next year, this will definitely help in the planning.

[winetastic]

Excellent reference and you can get a feel of each Barolo or Barbaresco communes, history ( so so important but lost on the vinous technocrats ), wines and soil types. As a beginner a great book though slightly controversial amongst the seriously obsessed!

I have the dead tree version of said book, have read through all the general chapters and am around half way through all the producers. Curious to hear which elements are somewhat controversial among those in the know?