Lost carton

dkw · Post by **dkw** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:03 am

Hi all,

haven't posted for years... anyway, we recently ordered a carton of wine delivered to Perth. Long story short, waited ages and eventually contacted the winery to see what was happening. They advised that according to the courier is was delivered about mid-morning one weekday but when I got home it wasn't there, and I had no idea it was supposed to be there because we didn't have the tracking number.

I figure that had the courier put the carton behind the gate as per our instruction then it is VERY unlikely that anyone would know it was there unless they saw the courier make the delivery, and if three people go past our house it's a busy day.

What's the done thing when this happens - is it just our bad luck, should the winery replace the carton, or the courier, or maybe me and the winery do something like go halves in a replacement carton?

Interested to know your thoughts,

Cheers,

Dave

richard · Post by **richard** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:54 am

insurance

vovo · Post by **vovo** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:08 am

I'd have a chat to said businesses and give everyone a chance to sort this out. Even if they are not at fault replacing it would do more good than not.

I also know I'd never deal with said businesses again if they didn't sort it out but I can be stubborn like that.

Broughy · Post by **Broughy** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:02 pm

Tough one this. The Delivery instructions leave behind gate means you are taking responsibility, if you say do not deliver, then it's different. Having said thT winery could put pressure on courier company. Ultimately someone could have seen the delivery and hooked it. So in that case not winery's fault, not couriers fault. It would be a nice gesture to go halves and ultimately not cost them a lot.

RogerPike · Post by **RogerPike** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:07 pm

This is interesting. You gave instructions to leave the wine "behind the gate". Once the courier has left the wine behind the gate all the responsibility is yours. The winery and the courier have fulfilled your instructions.
I simply ignore all instructions to leave the wine "behind the gate" or "in the shade under the pine tree" or "round the corner next to the carport" or even "behind the dog kennel, don't worry the dog doesn't bite".
I state on my website that wine will not be left at unattended premises.
I do so for three reasons. a) I have no idea if the environment "behind the gate" or wherever is conducive to wine being left there for many hours. b) It is illegal to leave any alcoholic beverage where a minor may be able to access it, all alcoholic beverages must be delivered to an adult. c) Because of what happened in this case. By giving those instructions without considering the implications you have taken on the responsibility and liability for any loss or damage. It is nobody's fault but your own. You may not realise that when you give those instructions but that is what you are doing.
If I give the carrier instructions to obtain a signature at delivery the wine is insured if something goes wrong. If I give the carrier instructions to leave the wine behind the gate and it goes missing it is not insured because the carrier has carried out his instructions.
By ignoring such instructions I am protecting the wine, the customer and myself. Consequently this issue has never arisen. I use Australia Post so the worst case is that you have to pick it up yourself from your local Post Office.
You have my sympathy but I think that you should be understanding in any negotiations with the courier or winery.

Post by **sjw_11** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:19 pm

I agree, if you gave instructions to leave unattended, I think its your problem (unless you actually think the courier is dodgy)... but its worth seeing if the winery may meet half way as a gesture of goodwill...

One point I would add is not everyone is as careful as Roger... I am often now encountering delivery options where I have no choice but to tick a box saying leave unattended ... one wine company here only gives options like 1) leave at the door 2) leave with the front desk 3) leave in a secure location ... no option at all to not leave the wine unattended as you must tick a box to complete the order... any company/courier doing that and resulting in a loss of the wine would definitely incur my wrath.

maybs · Post by **maybs** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:21 pm

Have to say I agree with what Roger says. I actually wouldn't even contemplate contacting the winery/courier in such a situation, I feel like it would only be because of commercial pressure they would do anything and I don't really see that as fair. I have done the same hing from time to time, leave on the verandah etc, for my convenience. But isn't goes missing I know that is on me.

So you have my sympathies but really I think blaming someone else orooling to them to foot the bill is a bit rough.

wiggum · Post by **wiggum** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:29 pm

Yes I agree with Roger as well. My only query would be wether the courier has actually delivered it in the first place. No real way to establish that I suppose.

I have in the past experienced a confused or unethical driver who after not finding the delivery address thought he would just look after the product at his place for a week until enquiries where made. Mmm!!

chadnchady · Post by **chadnchady** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:46 pm

While you can't put the blame on the winery, I would still raise the question and hope for a mutual solution. I'm sure most wineries won't just tell you tough luck bugger off. As mentioned above theres no proof that the courier ever left it 'behind the gate'. It could have been the delivery man's last day at work and he decided it was a good idea to celebrate it with a carton of wine.

maybs · Post by **maybs** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:07 pm

But why is it a 'mutual solution'? If the winery has dispatched the wine their job is done. I just think it is poor form to effectively try and blackmail a business into covering your bad luck/mistake. Just my two cents.

Ddavew · Post by **Ddavew** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:13 pm

If it is from austpost, you can fill in a form(lost item) from your local post office, they will investigate what happened to your delivery.

vovo · Post by **vovo** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:21 am

I've had the neighbours stuff left at my place by mistake (not wine) even the bloke a few doors down had something delivered and they left the "you weren't at home card" in my mailbox. Lucky in this case that I'm honest and know everyone involved and everyone gets their stuff.

swirler · Post by **swirler** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:43 am

maybs wrote:I just think it is poor form to effectively try and blackmail a business into covering your bad luck/mistake. Just my two cents.

How is it 'poor form' when he didn't mention the business in question? Blackmail???!!!

maybs · Post by **maybs** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:25 pm

swirler wrote:
maybs wrote:I just think it is poor form to effectively try and blackmail a business into covering your bad luck/mistake. Just my two cents.

How is it 'poor form' when he didn't mention the business in question? Blackmail???!!!

Am not talking about this thread. I was saying if you ring up the winery and ask them to replace the wine, they are stuck between saying get knicked and potentially irritating a customer, or saying yeah sure when it isn't their fault. Someone said they might come to a 'mutual solution', ie, ring them up and put the hard word on them. It is like emotional blackmail. How is that even a legitimate question to ask a business that has just done what you have asked them to do?

Phil H · Post by **Phil H** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:48 pm

RogerPike wrote:This is interesting. You gave instructions to leave the wine "behind the gate". Once the courier has left the wine behind the gate all the responsibility is yours. The winery and the courier have fulfilled your instructions.
I simply ignore all instructions to leave the wine "behind the gate" or "in the shade under the pine tree" or "round the corner next to the carport" or even "behind the dog kennel, don't worry the dog doesn't bite".
I state on my website that wine will not be left at unattended premises.
I do so for three reasons. a) I have no idea if the environment "behind the gate" or wherever is conducive to wine being left there for many hours. b) It is illegal to leave any alcoholic beverage where a minor may be able to access it, all alcoholic beverages must be delivered to an adult. c) Because of what happened in this case. By giving those instructions without considering the implications you have taken on the responsibility and liability for any loss or damage. It is nobody's fault but your own. You may not realise that when you give those instructions but that is what you are doing.
If I give the carrier instructions to obtain a signature at delivery the wine is insured if something goes wrong. If I give the carrier instructions to leave the wine behind the gate and it goes missing it is not insured because the carrier has carried out his instructions.
By ignoring such instructions I am protecting the wine, the customer and myself. Consequently this issue has never arisen. I use Australia Post so the worst case is that you have to pick it up yourself from your local Post Office.
You have my sympathy but I think that you should be understanding in any negotiations with the courier or winery.

+1. As a consumer I always prefer wineries that use Aus Post for this reason. When I don't have a choice, I have always wondered what would happen if this occurred to me, as I have left instructions "leave next to Garbage Bins". If the wine went missing, I would have to wear it. However I would let the winery know about it just in case it is more than a one off occurrence, and hence they may change their courier.

Waiters Friend · Post by **Waiters Friend** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:03 am

Pissed off. Just lost a case from the local auction company, courtesy of Aus Post. Aus Post delivers so much to me that the guys at the post office recognise me and/or the delivery address. This is the first time that the consignment has just disappeared. To date, the worst I've had (from dozens of deliveries) has been one broken bottle.

maybs · Post by **maybs** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:22 am

That definitely sucks. Feel for both you and DKW. I got too paranoid after a while getting stuff delivered to the house. Everything goes to the office or offsite storage now. Which has its own hassles but is just safer.

redstuff · Post by **redstuff** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:24 am

I have a live webcam on my front door that is set to record any movement - useful for sorting out things like this.

swirler · Post by **swirler** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:52 am

Maybe. Thanks for clearing that up.

Polymer · Post by **Polymer** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:27 pm

I'm surprised they even left it without a signature..I was always under the impression Alcohol required an adult signature...

Otherwise, what is really keeping some kid under 18 from ordering alcohol online and having it delivered? Or keeping some kids from taking someone's wine/alcohol delivery? Just seems odd...

dkw · Post by **dkw** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:41 am

Hi all,

interesting to read your replies. We've had plenty of stuff delivered in the past but this was the first to go missing. I too prefer Aus Post and am happy to collect from the post office. Interestingly Aus Post left a carton on our front step last week that I was expecting to have to collect from the PO...

I contacted the winery because I didn't have a tracking number and didn't know who the courier was. Probably should have asked for that info when the order was confirmed.

After my original post here I asked the winery what we should do next and they could have referred me to the courier, but to their very great credit and my gratitude they have offered to replace the carton. I will buy another carton from them this week and will definitely buy more in the future (and get it delivered to work).

cheers,

Dave.

Redav · Post by **Redav** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:31 am

FWIW I ask that it's left at the post office for this very reason as well as avoiding heat and reducing the chance of mishandling. That said, AustPost still delivered my last order to our front door. Fortunately I was home for it.

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