Hong Kong Wine & Food Thread

[JamieBahrain]

I get a lot of requests about buying wine and dining and I think it maybe a good idea just to start a bit of a thread to help those who visit. With apologies to Scott as I was in Italy when his query came through and I hope all went well on your trip!

I live in Sai Kung now so I can't be as helpful as previously, when I could store wines or help organize delivery to hotels.

Still one of the best dining experiences is Tim's Kitchen for old fashioned Cantonese food and $15 Aussie corkage. Source a few great bottles and away you go. Tim's is now Michelin rated but great value with restaurant expansion into Macau and ICC in Kowloon side.

http://www.timskitchen.com.hk


tbc

[felixp]

yea, good idea. Scott seems to have taken my tips to some extent, hopefully he has enjoyed them!!!
missed a great dinner at Tim's the other night, unfortunately just too close to my new-born (sitting in SZ maternity hospital as I write this, hehe) Have not been there for six months now, gotta get back soon!!!!!

HK still full of fantastic wine bargains, although now the HKD is approaching 6 to the AUD. Back in 2011/2012, when it got to almost 8.5, some of the prices were ridiculously cheap (perfect timing for 09 and 10 Bordeaux and Burgundy!!!!!!) Maybe the bargain of that time for me was getting Faiveley Clos de Beze, both 09 and 10, for about $160 equivalent!!!

I still say the best thing for tourists is to decide what wine they want, go to wine searcher, and find the cheapest price (prices actually vary wildly in HK). Then simply order it and it will be delivered to your hotel.

Hopefully, Maybs will report back his trip and associated wine purchases!!!

[Seven]

Also a good city to buy Japanese sake!

[felixp]

ordered 6 1985 Talbot yesterday, after continually seeing it get absolutely rave reviews, the latest over on Cellartracker had it WOTN amongst a group whose opinion I respect greatly. Probably pick up next weekend, gotta go over to HK anyway.
I have had the 1986 Talbot many times, and this is a fantastic wine, but never tried the 1985.
$100 a bottle at Good Wine Store after discount and membership reduction… pretty good value for a classified growth almost 30 years old!!
will report back on the wine after I give it a run, perhaps on Christmas day.

[JamieBahrain]

Cappellano makes some profound Barolo from Serralunga. They are timeless in tradition with their Chinato ( Barolo dessert wine ) tracing its history as a life giving elixir back to Italian colonial days in Africa.

The Franco is allocation only ( one of the greatest Barolos few have heard of ) and the Rupestris is OK to obtain. Chinato deosn't move that much but do try there is NO chinato that comes near it. Augustus and his Mum split up when purchasing the ingredients afraid they'd be tailed by fraudsters. He was concerned when discussing his source of Island Spices due my remote trekking pass time - worried I'd stumble upon his Malayan sources as if a national secret!

So HKG bound? Consider these wines with back vintages available and the cost is 40 to 50% of what you pay in Oz.

Felix, for goodnesss sakes, grab a mixed six pack next time you're in HKG. I'll word you up for a bottle of Franco which is ungrafted vines giving more depth and intensity than that of the American rootstock of Rupestris.

[JamieBahrain]

Le Sauveurs Causeway Bay.


LeSav.com

Private kitchen, French food, free BYO. Make the most of HKG tax free wine with a good BYO experience.

[felixp]

thanks Jamie, I'll give it a go in June when my number 2 son, the chef, is in town.

[JamieBahrain]

Kin's Kitchen in Wanchai/Caueway Bay is amazing Cantonese food. Now eclipses Tim's Kitchen as my favorite local restaurant. Corkage is modest at $35 Aussie. Grab a few great bottles and enjoy!


http://www.kinskitchen.com.hk/eng/p2.asp

[toofastdriving]

Hey - am heading to Hong Kong next week for a couple of days. Anyone got any good tips for regions/styles going for a good price at present (compared to oz) - would be keen to bring back a few bottles (willing to spend around $100 for something that will cellar for ages).

[felixp]

go to wine searcher.com and have a look. The e-tailers are much cheaper than the retailers, who I use only if I need to buy a bottle for lunch or dinner. e-tailers will deliver to your hotel.
despite the very weak AUD at the moment, there are still plenty of great wines to be had for around $100.
Bordeaux and Burgundy are king in HK, but Jamie could tell you plenty about where to get good Italian stuff.

For me, if you want something to cellar for ages, Bordeaux is the one to go for. Grand Puy Lacoste 2010 is superb, and will cellar forever. Even with the weak AUD, you should be able to get it for around $100, of course if you buy a dozen you can negotiate a cheaper price.

[felixp]

anyone looking for BYO in HK should have a look at the excellent section in the Ginsberg and Chan web site www.ginsbergchan.com
it lists just about every good BYO in the city, breaking it down to districts.

[JamieBahrain]

No joy with that link to BYO reccos.

[felixp]

oh, sorry. Thanks Jamie, I'll check it out

[toofastdriving]

Grand Puy Lacoste 2010 is superb, and will cellar forever. Even with the weak AUD, you should be able to get it for around $100, of course if you buy a dozen you can negotiate a cheaper price.

Done. Thanks for the suggestion!

[felixp]

just back home after spending three days in Honkers with a couple of sons. My chef son wanted to try two newish places, both were fantastic.

Serge et le Phoque Wanchai
Such a cool place, wonderful interior, hip staff and very relaxed (but trendy) vibe.
Probably best described as French Nouvelle Bistro, we went the degustation menu which was brilliant and great value (relatively speaking). Owned by the former proprietor of Chateaubriand in Paris, I like this much more than it's French cousin.
Very highly recommend, I certainly will return!!!

Yardbird Central/Sheung Wan
This is the coolest of the cool, even in mid-school holidays on a Monday night, there was, soon enough, a two hour wait to get in, and you cannot book. So, firstly here is a tip, the place opens at 6pm, aim to arrive then. (ok, so don't eat lunch)
We simply let our waiter feed us until we were completely stuffed and said "no more", the food is basically every part of a chicken you can think of, including heart and gizzards. Asian/Japanese interpretations of such, it might be my new favourite eating place in the world. And be prepared to drink a heap of sake with the staff, complimentary, as the place is in total party mode by 8pm.
Recommendation is not a strong enough word, if you visit HK and do not eat here, some-one should shoot you.

[felixp]

popped over for the night to catch up with a good mate up from Singapore for a couple of days banking (zzzzzzzzzz)
he owed me a dinner after losing golf last summer at RMGC, where we discussed the merits of Bordeaux v Burgundy with duck. So, off we went to:

Hoi King Heen
over on Mody road, in the basement of the Intercontinental there... it is a "Jetstar" version of a real Intercontinental, but it's Chinese restaurant is Michelin starred, and quite famous for it's Beijing Kao Ya.
The food was indeed superb, the deep fried crab extraordinarily good, as was the mushroom and bamboo soup. As for the duck, yep, truly delicious. Yet I continue to have a small quibble with the way Peking Duck is done in HK, which is the "Western" version of the dish, and although delicious, it included too much of the meat, which is the "usual" in HK and the Western world (quite different to Beijing/Mainland Peking Duck). The second course for the duck was in a San Choi Bao style, again quite delicious.
Finished off with a memorable version of mango pudding, perfect.
so, the wines?
1988 Salon
This remains my favourite vintage of this, edging out the 96 and 85, although I suspect the 96 will be it's equal in another decade. Loads of honeysuckle and mushrooms, with slight oxidation as is the house style. Broad, rich and long, a masterpiece of a wine. For me, as good as champagne gets, and this was a great bottle.
drink: now 99pts.
1993 Leroy Romanee St Vivant
Kinda knew he would drag something special from his HK cellar to prove a point, but I came prepared
Loaded with red fruits, incredibly floral and lifted, yet rich and intense. Stunning wine, although I suspect this needs another five years to fully show it's wares. A wonderful match for the duck, and a smart move to bring a wine still showing some primary, sweet fruit flavours.
drink: 2023-2035+ 97+pts
1990 Chateau l'Eglise Clinet
My attempt to prove Bordeaux an even better match for duck. This showed almost exactly the same as a bottle drunk for CNY 2013, has not budged and inch. Still stunningly young for a wine approaching it's 25th birthday. Incredibly complex, showing deep red fruits, anise and hints of tobacco. Outstanding, and also paired beautifully with the duck, but i had to admit, not quite as well as the Burgundy Still, if it wasn't for the Leroy, I could have been in heaven with this amazing wine and our large plate of roasted bird. Oh well, I will get him back next time we meet
drink: now-2030+ 97pts

The lesson.... drink Burgundy with Peking Duck.
The restaurant: food is great, restaurant is luxurious and expansive, the service perfect. My other quibble? 350HKD for corkage is cruel (although top-notch glassware and decanter etc)
Recommended, but if you are only in HK a few days, there are many better places to eat.

[winz]

Hello all - I'm heading to HK in a few weeks, did a search on the forum, and thought this was probably the best place to get some advice.

I'll be there for 4 days, and have taken onboard the advice to search on Wine Searcher for e-tailers, but was wondering whether they would be able to deliver within that timeframe.

Also, have been slowly building a collection of Barolo/Barbaresco, but - given the limited range and at-times interesting pricing in Australia - was going to focus on these whilst in country, so any advice re best retailers/etailers for the two Bs would be very much appreciated.

[JamieBahrain]

The Hong Kong wine scene is nothing short of amazing. The market has shifted, competition increased as the landlords taken out of the equation with retailers utilizing the internet and setting up in non-prime real estate areas. Pricing is often significantly chapter than bonded UK stock as slowly, the Brits are being sidelined as a hub.

The trouble being, if you waltz down Queens Rd Central or Nathan rd Kowloon, retail is pricing crap. The commercial rents are amongst the highest in the world. Purchasing from sales or offers the way to go. You can order and ship and Im sure a retailer will hold your stock.

Wine-searcher doesn't always capture sales nor special offers.

[winz]

The Hong Kong wine scene is nothing short of amazing. The market has shifted, competition increased as the landlords taken out of the equation with retailers utilizing the internet and setting up in non-prime real estate areas. Pricing is often significantly chapter than bonded UK stock as slowly, the Brits are being sidelined as a hub.

The trouble being, if you waltz down Queens Rd Central or Nathan rd Kowloon, retail is pricing crap. The commercial rents are amongst the highest in the world. Purchasing from sales or offers the way to go. You can order and ship and Im sure a retailer will hold your stock.

Wine-searcher doesn't always capture sales nor special offers.

Thanks a lot for the reply Jamie.

I assume the sales/offers require signing up at the different retailers and waiting for what comes along? I understand if it's better that we not mention other retailers on Gavin's site, so am happy to PM if that's preferable.

[Sigmamupi]

Hello all - I'm heading to HK in a few weeks, did a search on the forum, and thought this was probably the best place to get some advice.

I'll be there for 4 days, and have taken onboard the advice to search on Wine Searcher for e-tailers, but was wondering whether they would be able to deliver within that timeframe.

Also, have been slowly building a collection of Barolo/Barbaresco, but - given the limited range and at-times interesting pricing in Australia - was going to focus on these whilst in country, so any advice re best retailers/etailers for the two Bs would be very much appreciated.

Jamie is correct in that HK e-tailers are generally cheaper than bricks and mortar stores, particularly if you buy pre-arrival. For example Pearl of Burgundy has a current offer for Giacosa with prices that will be much cheaper than Australia but delivery is not until May-June. If you are constrained for time and want to look at the available stock you could have a look at the prior thread "Weekend trip to Hong Kong - which bottles should I bring home" where I posted a contribution on some stores with a good Italian range and reasonable prices, particularly when on promotion.

[winz]

Hello all - I'm heading to HK in a few weeks, did a search on the forum, and thought this was probably the best place to get some advice.

I'll be there for 4 days, and have taken onboard the advice to search on Wine Searcher for e-tailers, but was wondering whether they would be able to deliver within that timeframe.

Also, have been slowly building a collection of Barolo/Barbaresco, but - given the limited range and at-times interesting pricing in Australia - was going to focus on these whilst in country, so any advice re best retailers/etailers for the two Bs would be very much appreciated.

Jamie is correct in that HK e-tailers are generally cheaper than bricks and mortar stores, particularly if you buy pre-arrival. For example Pearl of Burgundy has a current offer for Giacosa with prices that will be much cheaper than Australia but delivery is not until May-June. If you are constrained for time and want to look at the available stock you could have a look at the prior thread "Weekend trip to Hong Kong - which bottles should I bring home" where I posted a contribution on some stores with a good Italian range and reasonable prices, particularly when on promotion.

Thanks a bunch Sigmamupi, will look up the thread now for ideas

[Diddy]

Calling on Felix and Jamie (or any other HK aficionados) for some updated HK advice if possible!

I'll have a 48 hour layover in early December so would like to fill my luggage up with as much wine as possible - need to beat my personal record of 15 bottles from last trip!

I'll definitely use wine-searcher to check out relative prices, but looking for some current feedback on the following wine shops which I've consolidated from all the other HK threads (hope this isn't contravention of Gavin's rules):-

Etc
Watson's
Wine Buff Hk
Good Wine Store
L'imperatrice
Berry Bros in Pacific Place
Pillariwine
GDV Fine Wine
Ponti Cellars
Pearl of Burgundy

Thanks in advance!

[felixp21]

Hi Diddy,
forget Berry Bros., Watson's and Etc. Etc is simply the retail arm of Altaya, so you are better ordering from Altaya and getting them to deliver to your hotel. l'imperatrice is good, but for Burgundy you need to order pre-arrival, their prices go up 30% once the stock is physically in HK.
Ponti and Good Wine Store can be ok if you have a good look around, still some bargains to be had, but again you are paying for retail space.
if you know what you want to buy, go to wine searcher, then contact the cheapest dealer and get them to deliver to your hotel.
to be honest, these days I would not really recommend any actual retail outlet, the savings are with the e-tailers.
If you can somehow manage to order stuff pre-arrival, you will pay less than half the cost of the same wine in Australia.

[JamieBahrain]

Cru is emerging as the go-to retailer. Many good offers especially pre-arrival and you can build an order for your arrival. Prcing is often better than European cellar door.

Etc- no
Watson's- no
Wine Buff Hk- never heard of
Good Wine Store- never heard of

L'imperatrice- yes if Burgundy.

Berry Bros in Pacific Place- no thievery unless on sale.

Pillariwine- never heard of
GDV Fine Wine- never heard of
Ponti Cellars-no thievery
Pearl of Burgundy- never heard of

Try Ginsberg and Chan you may find something or Deco though their good stuff is allocated ( Cappellano/ Roagna/ Rocca etc )

[felixp21]

Hi Diddy,
I've tried to copy and paste a part of my 2015 Burgundy pre-arrival/en primeur from l'Imperatrice. Sorry, it has not formatted well. But I think you can work it out. What I wanted to highlight is Ben Leroux's wines: the prices in Australia are a joke, and when I questioned Leroux about this, he simply shrugged his shoulders.
The Gevrey Villages cost me $45 in HK, the same wine is between $130-140 in Australia. Now, don't forget that the HK guys also need to make a profit, so the cost in Australia is laughable. At the very most, it should be $70. So, if you plan ahead of your trip, and you buy expensive wine, you can really save a huge amount.

Item ID
Description
Quantity
ETD Date
HKD/Unit
Amount
FEL2015R75CMFEUSSEL
LER2015R75GEV
FEL2015R75CMCLOSVI
LER2015R75MAZOCAHM
FELETTIG Henri, Chambolle Musigny 1er Cru Les Feusselottes 2015
Customer Ref: EP2015
LEROUX Benjamin, Gevrey Chambertin Village 2015
Customer Ref: EP2015
FELETTIG Henri, Chambolle Musigny Clos Le Village 2015
Customer Ref: EP2015
LEROUX Benjamin, Mazoyeres Chambertin Grand Cru 2015
Customer Ref: EP2015
12 BT
12 BT
24 BT
12 BT
ASAP
ASAP
ASAP
ASAP
360
270
280
1,100
4,320.00
3,240.00
6,720.00
13,200.00


[felixp21]

you will also notice the Mazoyeres cost me $180 ($1,100HKD) This is "selling" in Australia for $460.
bloody hell, I feel sorry for you guys!!!!

[Dragzworthy]

you will also notice the Mazoyeres cost me $180 ($1,100HKD) This is "selling" in Australia for $460.
bloody hell, I feel sorry for you guys!!!!

I find a lot of Aussie wine is expensive even in Australia, notably back vintage (which is hard to get in itself..).

[felixp21]

Aussie wine is expensive in Australia because of the taxes.
Imported wine in Australia is ridiculous because of taxes and importer greed.

[Diddy]

Thanks all for the responses! Will see what I can find!

[Sigmamupi]

Diddy - Sorry for late post if you are already in HK. Pillariwine (which has a website) is in Pottinger St, Central. The owner is Japanese and has sake and natural wines if you are into that stuff (I am not) but the reason I mention it is that if you are a burgundy fan, he stocks Domaine Marc Roy. The prices are lower than Australia but probably not such a differential to make them worth bringing back as a duty free allowance but the 2014s are lovely wines if you want something to take to a byo. My HK mate recommends a place called Fa Zu Jie (https://hk.asiatatler.com/restaurants/fa-zu-jie) , which apparently is modern French/Shanghainese fusion food with no byo charge.