Grange dinner

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maybs
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Grange dinner

Post by maybs »

Hey guys

A while ago I posted that I was trying to organise a Grange dinner with some colleagues. Well, last night it happened.

Scene of the crime was the private dining room at est. All I can say is, great space, impeccable service. The private dining room is set at the George St end of the restaurant, with huge windows occupying the front wall. It actually feels like you are sitting immediately above George St, which was actually quite cool.

We started with oysters in the bar area of the restaurant, served with Krug MV. The Krug was, well, Krug. Quite delicious. est use Zalto champagne flutes which are quite awesome. The oysters were probably the best I have ever had. Half served with just a drop of lemon, half with ponzu dressing. Both were spectacular and had my dining companions gushing.

We then proceeded to the private dining room where the 6 Granges had been set on stands with some of the younger ones being decanted. We had the benefit of a young, friendly sommelier from Rhone for the evening and he did a terrific job with the wines.

We settled in and the first wine was poured

2002 Giaconda Chardonnay, from magnum served with salad of mud crab, almond cream, baby zucchini, heirloom tomato jelly, basil

I am not good enough at describing wine to do this wine justice. Balanced, rich and complex, powerful but refined, long and compelling.When I was given the wine to taste by the sommelier I must have pulled a face because he just look at me and said 'Yes, it is superb.' And it was. The best chardonnay I have ever tasted, one of the best wines I have ever tasted. Half way through the course I started to get a little sad because I knew I would probably never get to try it again, but if I could find a case of magnums of this wine I would buy them.

Our sommelier for the evening said to me he thought it was the best Australia wine he had tasted. I asked him if he meant white wine and he said no.

2008 Leeuwin Estate Art Series Chardonnay served with morteon bay bug, grilled leek, broccoli puree, lemon, seaweed, nasturtium

I really like this wine and this vintage is drinking quite well, though still has plenty of life in it. It matched well with the food but this dish and wine would have been better before the previous one. The dish was more delicate than the mud crab salad and the wine, whilst really very good, was completely overshadowed by the Giaconda. Still, lovely chardonnay and I am glad I have several more stashed away.

1983 and 1985 Penfolds Grange served with smoked, roasted quail breast, butternut, summer squash, shiitake, fresh ricotta

Tried the 1985 first. Seriously good wine. Strong herbal aromas with just a little fruit on the nose and a bit of nutty oak. Still good dark fruit on the palate, quite refined texture, long finish. A little eucalypt on the finish.

Then the 1983. Really lovely. Much younger smelling and tasting than the 1985. Some chocolate as well as oak on the nose. Still rich pure dark fruit. More acid.
Rounder mouth feel.

The '85 was better than I was expecting and really nice, but the '83 was much more on song and still so vibrant for a 32 year old wine. It was the better of the two on the evening.

1991 and 1992 Penfolds Grange served with cocoa crusted venison saddle, salt baked jerusalem artichoke, boudin noir, prune, coffee crumb

Alas, the 1992 was fairly badly corked according to both myself and the sommelier. Interestingly, the owner of this wine said he would have been happy to serve it. I am not expert but I couldn't drink it and the sommelier looked shocked when he suggested it could be served. Just goes to show you the lack of understanding/experience of TCA amongst a lot of people. This will be getting sent back to Penfolds.

The 1991 was excellent. Liquorice, chocolate and dark fruit all melding on the nose. Rich fruit still jumping out on the palate but sitting very nicely with the oak and some chocolate and coffee flavours. My Grange of the night.

1995 and 1996 Penfolds Grange served with dry aged heritage beef striploin and slow cooked tri tip, caramelized shallot, yeast, cavolo nero

These had been decanted for about an hour and a half - 2 hours.

The 1995 smelt and felt a bit heavy. It was quite dense, a little stewy but pleasant fruit, good dollop of liquorice. Nice wine but probably the least of the Granges on the night.

The 1996 was very good. Fresh and young nose of concentrated dark berries which followed through on the palate. Silky mouthfeel with plenty of tannin structure left. Long finish. My notes suggest it was close to the best balanced Grange of the night but didn't quite have the elegance of the 1991. I think it will come with a bit more time as this was still very fresh and zingy. Lovely wine.

We then had coffee and petit fours. Some of the guests excused themselves and one ordered a passionfruit soufflé which looked amazing. We had a 1983 Chateau D'Yquem but half the guests had left and it just didn't feel the right time to open it. I think a few of the guests had gone a bit hard on the whites, and although there were 8 of us the two women were taking very small pours of Grange, which left probably 100ml of each for the rest of us. So by the end we decided discretion was the better part of valour.

A lovely evening. The food was all fantastic but special mention goes to the mud crab salad and the venison. Just stupendous. Service was absolutely impeccable and our sommelier, Julian, was fantastic. He did a very good job on some difficult corks and looked after us beautifully, but was also friendly and willing to engage and chat.

So, the wines were

Krug MV
2002 Giaconda Chardonnay (magnum) - WOTN
2008 LEAS Chardonnay
1983 Penfolds Grange
1985 Penfolds Grange
1991 Penfolds Grange - Grange of the night
1992 Penfolds Grange (corked)
1995 Penfolds Grnage
1996 Penfolds Grange

This was actually my first experience tasting Grange and so it was good to have some time with them, get a good taste and try a number of different vintages. Several of the wines were quite excellent, but I must say...I won't be going out of my way to collect them. I have some 2004 (anniversary year) and 2008 (son's birth year) and it is obvious these wines can live a long time, which in itself makes them special, and I will enjoy opening them I am sure...and maybe it is just that they weren't tasted side by side with other 'lesser' wines to let them shine. But I am thinking to myself I have tried some really good reds elsewhere, in particular at offlines that would give a number of these Granges a run for their money, which were a fraction of the cost.

So for me, yes very good wines, yes very good ageing ability, yes plenty of cachet....but don't represent value.

Nevertheless a great night.

Also massive thanks to Dave Vino who helped by putting together a hand out which the guests really loved but which I don't seem to be able to upload because of size issues.

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Michael R
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by Michael R »

Hi Scott

Sounds like a fantastic evening, great that so many wines showed well.

A few years ago, Mr Vino waxed lyrical about a bottle of 02 Gia Chardy to me. I think he brought it along on one of his Qld jaunts. His views were as strong as yours, I had never tried that vintage but was mesmerised…so we set about chasing the dragon.

I/we must have been through a few 750ml bottles since, but alas no joy. All auction purchases to be fair, so was always more in hope then expectation.
Dave, displaying the determination that gets him through those insane bike rides, finally had one last go and sourced a magnum for the Grapemates xmas party last December.
The wine showed very well, excellent wine, but alas, not quite the heady heights that Dave bottle reached those years previous.

Great that yours showed that magical element, although I’m worried now you’ve re-ignited the chase again :lol:
In some respects that reckless dragon chasing was good training for Burgundy!

Cheers, see you at an offline soon hopefully.

catchnrelease
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by catchnrelease »

Looks like a great night Scott. Tasting the '91 would have been great.

maybs
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by maybs »

Michael R wrote:Hi Scott

Sounds like a fantastic evening, great that so many wines showed well.

A few years ago, Mr Vino waxed lyrical about a bottle of 02 Gia Chardy to me. I think he brought it along on one of his Qld jaunts. His views were as strong as yours, I had never tried that vintage but was mesmerised…so we set about chasing the dragon.

I/we must have been through a few 750ml bottles since, but alas no joy. All auction purchases to be fair, so was always more in hope then expectation.
Dave, displaying the determination that gets him through those insane bike rides, finally had one last go and sourced a magnum for the Grapemates xmas party last December.
The wine showed very well, excellent wine, but alas, not quite the heady heights that Dave bottle reached those years previous.

Great that yours showed that magical element, although I’m worried now you’ve re-ignited the chase again :lol:
In some respects that reckless dragon chasing was good training for Burgundy!

Cheers, see you at an offline soon hopefully.


Haha oh dear, Dave saw that on the list and didn't tell me that story, wonder if he was trying not to jinx it?

It really was magic in a bottle. If I ever get that in a pinot I am in serious trouble. Speaking of which, will definitely see you at the pinot offline.

Alex, the 91 was great. I mean it was great to try them all and they were really good wines but yes I did think the 91 stood out a bit. It was an auction purchase by me so I was pleased it was in such good nick.
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dave vino
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by dave vino »

Finally I am vindicated :D , the 2002 Gia is a wonderful wine, although I've never had one quite as good as that night in the Blue Mountains. I'll keep on chasing. :twisted:

Glad to hear the night went so well and est. came to the party in terms of expectations.

Great write-up and pics as well!!

So when is the HoG tasting? :D

Edit: I didn't want to say anything about it as I didn't want to raise expectations.

Hacker
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by Hacker »

Wow, great night! Shame about the 1992 Grange, I hope the owner will be chasing up for a replacement bottle.
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Andrew Jordan
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by Andrew Jordan »

maybs wrote:Alas, the 1992 was fairly badly corked according to both myself and the sommelier. Interestingly, the owner of this wine said he would have been happy to serve it. I am not expert but I couldn't drink it and the sommelier looked shocked when he suggested it could be served. Just goes to show you the lack of understanding/experience of TCA amongst a lot of people. This will be getting sent back to Penfolds.


Scott,

Wow what a great night! Thanks for the fantastic write up and the tasting notes. Have a few of those vintages so good to see that most of them are travelling really well - especially the 1991! Shame to hear about the 1992. I think Penfolds must have had a really bad batch of corks for this vintage as I had a similar experience with a 1992 Grange in London a few years ago which was sent back and replaced with the current vintage Grange. I have also heard other stories since then of corked bottles of 1992 Grange ... so probably a vintage to avoid.
Last edited by Andrew Jordan on Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers
AJ

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Polymer
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by Polymer »

I think Grange is one you will have to send back for sure though right? And as quickly as possible...

PaulV
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by PaulV »

[quote="Andrew Jordan]

I think Penfolds must have had a really bad batch of corks for this vintage as I had a similar experience with a 1992 Grange in London a few years ago which was sent back and replaced with the current vintage Grange. I have also heard other stories since then of corked bottles of 1992 Grange ... so probably a vinatge to avoid.[/quote]


Have had a couple of badly corked 1992 Grange. The last one which I sent back, this was the reply:

"Subject
Penfolds Grange 1992 - Cork taint

Response By Email .........(28/01/2014 11:13 AM)
Hi Paul,

The results have come back on the Grange you returned and it's what's commonly referred to here as 'a stinker'.

Following analysis with the mass spectrometer (aka 'the beast') it was found to contain 56.6ppt of TCA. The sensory threshold of TCA is 2-5ppt of TCA. However it may be lower than 1.0ppt in some individuals.

I'll get a replacement bottle of current 2008 vintage organised for you ."


Have also heard quite a number of people with similar stories with the 1992.

cheers

paul

maybs
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by maybs »

The 1992 will definitely be going back asap, it has only had a tasting pour taken out of it. Was re-sealed and picked up today from est with a few other spare bottles.

Have emailed Penfolds to get the best place to send it back to.

The owner is still telling me he thought it was fine and he doesn't think they will replace it. There is now a small wager of lunch at Felix on the line. Soooo....I am getting a free lunch at Felix in due course cos that baby was wrecked :D

I wish I had taken better pictures but they were really an afterthought to be honest. Anyhow, they give you the idea :)
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Bobthebuilder
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by Bobthebuilder »

Fantastic stuff, thanks for putting the time into such an interesting post.
The food also looks fantastic, the missus wants to take me to est for my 42nd in May
I was undecided
not any more! :D

felixp
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by felixp »

great write up, many thanks.
a couple of comments

1. The 08 Leeuwin is much too young. I am a little worried about LEAS and screw-cap, it just fails to age!!!! The 2006 still tastes like a 3yo wine!! Now, don't just assume this is a good thing, the ageing process is necessary to develop complexity. With top-end chards, the jury is well and truly still out on the screw-cap debate for me.

2. The 02 Giaconda is a beauty, up there with the 96 and 11 as the best i have seen. Glad you had a good bottle, there is a lot of variation with this wine.

3. I will be interested in the result of the 1992 Grange. In my experience, this is the worst of all Granges, even including 1958 and 2000. Unfortunately for one of my sons, he is a 92 baby, and so far the case of wine purchased for him has be consistently and continually average, rarely pointing above 90. Last seen in December 2013 (his 21st), when it was blown away by the 92 Best's Thompson Shiraz. (which in turn was monumentally blown away by a 2002 Roumier Bonnes Mares)
Please write your response from Pennies here!!!

maybs
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by maybs »

Hmmm so Penfolds believe we have hit a snag...when the left over wine, including the corked 1992, was picked up from est the next day, they had not resealed it or returned it with the cork, they had resealed it with a new cork. Penfolds have indicated the cork should have been kept for testing as that is the only way to tell if the wine was TCA affected. I said to them I thought they could test the wine and she said they can but it will only show if really high levels of TCA? Anyhow, she seemed reluctant to accept return of it for testing on that basis but I told her I wanted it checked as it was quite badly corked, and they have agreed to do so.

Sooo....now if there is a problem because est didn't give me the cork back, I will have to take it up with them.

Not exactly the same as me sending a note to Wendouree telling them a '98 Cab Malbec was corked and if I returned it could they give me something else, and getting, by way of a response, a replacement 1998 Cab Malbec....
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dave vino
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by dave vino »


Polymer
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by Polymer »

That's weird..because I distinctly remember a thread where it wasn't sent for a week or so and the oxidation got in the way of the person smelling the wine and so they said it wasn't corked...

In this case, you're trying to send it right away and they're saying they need the cork itself...which isn't needed if they're just going to have people sniff the wine....but maybe needed if they're going to send it off (which I don't think they do normally). It could be they've changed the process...I almost feel like people should get a written letter from the somm at the restaurant that can be contacted if need be if they need an impartial party...

I mean, I can sort of understand why they're a bit more cautious about returns than most other places...

maybs
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by maybs »

Yeah I can understand why they need to be a bit more cautious too. I dunno, it just seems strange. When she was giving me a bit of attitude I said to her look, I was at est. The sommelier said it was corked. I could tell it was corked. And then that is when she agreed to take it back even though I didn't have the cork itself.

But then she also said to me oh that wine is still very young, why were you drinkkng it. It was just kind of a weird conversation and I felt like straight away she was just trying to discourage me sending it back.
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Polymer
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by Polymer »

WTF...who cares why you're drinking it now and what does that have to do with TCA?

If they don't want any returns...

Screwcap
Diam
Ardea (Ponsot uses them)

I mean, I'm sure there are some very smart people at Penfolds..I'm sure they've projected a certain % to be impacted by TCA and I'm sure they know (with many years of history) about how many they end up replacing (which is probably a small fraction)...surely they've accounted for that already....

It just seems like a contradiction in providing such a good customer service thing like the re-corking clinic and then turn around and hassle customers about returning their wine. Ultimately they're going to test it anyways (in whatever way they do) and they'll either decide it was corked or it wasn't corked....

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Andrew Jordan
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by Andrew Jordan »

maybs wrote:Hmmm so Penfolds believe we have hit a snag...when the left over wine, including the corked 1992, was picked up from est the next day, they had not resealed it or returned it with the cork, they had resealed it with a new cork. Penfolds have indicated the cork should have been kept for testing as that is the only way to tell if the wine was TCA affected. I said to them I thought they could test the wine and she said they can but it will only show if really high levels of TCA? Anyhow, she seemed reluctant to accept return of it for testing on that basis but I told her I wanted it checked as it was quite badly corked, and they have agreed to do so.

Sooo....now if there is a problem because est didn't give me the cork back, I will have to take it up with them.

Not exactly the same as me sending a note to Wendouree telling them a '98 Cab Malbec was corked and if I returned it could they give me something else, and getting, by way of a response, a replacement 1998 Cab Malbec....


The corked 1992 we had in London follows a similar story. When the sommelier opened the bottle the cork completely disintegrated, to the point we had to put another cork in it to return the bottle. In this case also the cork was not returned to Penfolds (TWE). They did ask for it but once we explained what happened to the cork that seemed to satisfy them. In fact the bottle was returned all the way back to Australia for testing, before they would deem the wine TCA affected.

I think the only reason they need the cork is to double check what wine is actually in the bottle. What stops people returning Grange bottles full of another wine TCA affected? If they have the cork then this would allow them to test this also (as the Grange corks have Grange printed on them with the vintage on top), making sure what is in the bottle agrees with the cork.
Cheers
AJ

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maybs
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by maybs »

Yeah in keeping an open mind and will see what happens but honestly, the whole conversation was just quite negative and left me with a bit of a bad taste in my mouth (which was separate to the bad taste of TCA!) :)

I hear you Andrew. I did say to her that I suspect the reason the sommelier didn't reuse the cork was that he mentioned to me that several of them came out in pieces or in quite bad shape, then she said 'oh I doubt that could be right for a 1992 we have wines much older than that where the corks come out just fine'

I was trying to be conciliatory so I just said sure, I've had older wines with intact corks and younger wines with terrible corks that fall to bits, I guess it just varies from cork to cork and bottle to bottle

Then SHE said

'Oh I don't think so, I'd say if that has happened the cork hasn't been removed properly'

I mean, you can probably see why it all left me with a really negative vibe
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Polymer
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by Polymer »

Well hopefully it all works out...

lol..red herring after red herring after red herring...

You somehow had a corked wine because:

You drank it too young
The 92 corks come out fine
The cork wasn't removed properly

I guess they just want every bit to make it harder to fake...I'm not discounting why they're asking for certain things...but some of the other stuff is just garbage...

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dave vino
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by dave vino »

PM Sparky (Moira) and send a link to this thread. I reckon if she is still with TWE she could sort it out.

Although I sort of like the idea of it going further knowing who was in attendance :wink:

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Diddy
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by Diddy »

I recently returned a corked Wynns Centenary to TWE and they actually sent me a condom like plastic film in case you return with a different cork.

daver6
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by daver6 »

That requiring the cork story sounds like rubbish.

I've returned a few corked Penfolds wines over the years. They have never asked for the cork, just the wine. The bottle had been resealed with some special plastic stuff they sent out. The wine is put through a mass spectrum analysis to test for TCA I believe.

They certainly aren't figuring out TCA ppm by smelling the wine and testing the cork isn't going to give you ppm in the wine either.

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n4sir
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by n4sir »

maybs wrote:Hmmm so Penfolds believe we have hit a snag...when the left over wine, including the corked 1992, was picked up from est the next day, they had not resealed it or returned it with the cork, they had resealed it with a new cork. Penfolds have indicated the cork should have been kept for testing as that is the only way to tell if the wine was TCA affected. I said to them I thought they could test the wine and she said they can but it will only show if really high levels of TCA? Anyhow, she seemed reluctant to accept return of it for testing on that basis but I told her I wanted it checked as it was quite badly corked, and they have agreed to do so.

Sooo....now if there is a problem because est didn't give me the cork back, I will have to take it up with them.

Not exactly the same as me sending a note to Wendouree telling them a '98 Cab Malbec was corked and if I returned it could they give me something else, and getting, by way of a response, a replacement 1998 Cab Malbec....


If there is enough of the wine left they should be able to test for TCA without the cork via a spectrum analysis (which I understand is standard practice for something like Grange now). It is understandable why they would want the original cork though - a replacement/"clean" cork has been known to "draw up" TCA from a corked wine, which could alter the level and/or perception of TCA (in a similar way to cling wrap), plus they want other information about the cork itself. That said, where the cork has basically been crumbled to destruction and it is impossible to send back with the bottle, I have successfully used a neutral enough plastic/DIAM cork or the permafilm that is usually included with the parcel to be mailed back to Treasury for just such an event.

Anyway it's good to hear Treasury have arranged to take your bottle, even though I have to admit your conversation with them did sound more than a little odd. Perhaps it's still worth a PM to Sparky, she might like to find out which one of her employees took the phone call and discuss what was said. :wink:
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sparky
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by sparky »

I'm onto it.

Stand by....

maybs
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by maybs »

sparky wrote:I'm onto it.

Stand by....


Thanks Moira, and thanks for the call with the heads up. I appreciate it. :D
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maybs
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by maybs »

All well that ends well, replacement Grange received :)

Thanks again Sparky
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Croquet King
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by Croquet King »

Nice work and well done Sparky.
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Diddy
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by Diddy »

What was wrong with it? TCA?

Hacker
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Re: Grange dinner

Post by Hacker »

Diddy wrote:What was wrong with it? TCA?


From Maybs first post:
1991 and 1992 Penfolds Grange served with cocoa crusted venison saddle, salt baked jerusalem artichoke, boudin noir, prune, coffee crumb

Alas, the 1992 was fairly badly corked according to both myself and the sommelier. Interestingly, the owner of this wine said he would have been happy to serve it. I am not expert but I couldn't drink it and the sommelier looked shocked when he suggested it could be served. Just goes to show you the lack of understanding/experience of TCA amongst a lot of people. This will be getting sent back to Penfolds.

:D
Imugene, cure for cancer.

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