Biodynamic wines = batsh*t crazy

[catchnrelease]

I was reading up some stuff about biodynamic growing methods and I came to realise something.... it's all bullsh*t! I'm sure the winemakers think it's real, but stuffing quartz into cow horns and the conflicting effects of the moon and saturn on your vines?!?!

Does anyone know of any 'biodynamic' winemakers, do they actually believe this stuff? Sounds more like weird bullsh*t sorcery to me! This video highlights the weird side of biodynamic wine making. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2qBIgTZodU

And here is Australia it's no different, here's a link to Cullen's take on biodynamic growing, good thing they make good wines. http://www.cullenwines.com.au/our-philosophy/biodynamics/

[gggaz]

You probably won't find much disagreement here.
I could go on and on about this topic, but whenever I exert mental energy on this sort of voodoo shit, I have to ask myself, 'why? Who cares?!'

Indeed, who actually cares? Those of us with an interest in viticulture have encountered articles about it, educated ourselves, maybe contributed to an argument about it on an online forum somewhere, but what's the real world, actual consequence of these people practicing biodynamics? Is it hurting anyone?

Here's one for all the retailers out there: how many of you have ever had someone come into your work and ask "what biodynamic wines do you have?"

In my 10+ years in it, that's never happened. It's irrelevant, fringe, pretentious hipster flappery of the worst kind, and if those of us in the wine industry collectively or even individually decide that it's pseudo-science, then we should simply ignore it.

[TiggerK]

No doubt they believe some of it, and no doubt some of it (biodynamic or not) is good agricultural practice. That's what matters.

But yeah, a lot of it is most certainly quantum vibrational holistic homeopathic metaphysical energy astrology b*l*cks. Then again, a large percentage of US citizens believe fully in Angels and Satan, and don't get me started on Creationism. Arrgghh. But each to their own, just don't try and convince me!

I'm a Leo Cancer cusp by the way.

[rooman]

I tend to agree the whole burying cow horns at midnight accompanied by naked virgins dancing around a bonfire on the full moon is out there in crazy land along with 7 ft lizard men and UFOs BUT a couple of years ago whilst reading Campbell Mattinsons book,"Why the French Hate us", I realised that close to all my favourite wines in Australia are either full on bio-dynamic or organic. So whilst it makes no sense to me, I am very pleased other people believe in it because I love their wines.

[Scotty vino]

Have a read of 'Chateau Monty' by Monty Waldin.
Some of the biodynamic practices that take place had me scratching my head a little.
I was asking myself whether a lot of it would have an impact as it seemed as though it was bordering on silliness.
Each to their own and it was a mind opening/humorous read. His little jack russell 'Harry' is awesome.

[Scotty vino]

No doubt they believe some of it, and no doubt some of it (biodynamic or not) is good agricultural practice. That's what matters.

But yeah, a lot of it is most certainly quantum vibrational holistic homeopathic metaphysical energy astrology b*l*cks. Then again, a large percentage of US citizens believe fully in Angels and Satan, and don't get me started on Creationism. Arrgghh. But each to their own, just don't try and convince me!

I'm a Leo Cancer cusp by the way.

Gold.

[Polymer]

Some of it is junk...some of it makes sense...A lot of winemakers are not fully biodynamic but many use many of the practices..generally the less goofy ones...

I actually don't care what type of goofy things they do as long as the wine ends up being good...If it helps them in any way, even psychologically, that is fine with me...

The one wine movement I still don't get is the natural wine one..I've had a few decent ones..generally when they're very young..but most of the time they're just not very good...A lot of times it actually tastes like the bacteria isn't under control...

[Jay60A]

The creator of this movement is the philosopher Rudolf Steiner. You should google him and "Anthroposophy" which is the cult/religion he founded and is still going, with a HQ in Switzerland.

If you think Biodynamics is crazy you have not scratched the surface compared to Anthroposophy ... some very ahem 'interesting' views on reincarnation and race and karma which may well still underpin Steiner-Waldorf schools even if well hidden. Apparently learning to read before your adult teeth develop damages your spiritual growth, kids fighting and bullying is karma from the last generation being worked out and so on. I had some friends who were thinking of sending their kids to a Steiner school until I asked them to read up a bit.

Actually quite fascinating but more than a bit weird.

[rossmckay]

From the BBR website - there's some big names there so I agree with Polymer, don't care what they do as long as they make great wine

Broadly Biodynamic Producers

Many producers who have espoused biodynamic farming methods are not seeking certification, because they see biodynamics as a philosophy rather than a strict set of rules. The list below contains those producers whose farming practices are broadly biodynamic, but omits those who have just expressed interest in one or two aspects of the movement.

Australia
Giaconda Vineyard

Bordeaux
Domaine De Chevalier

Burgundy
Chandon de Briailles
Château de Puligny-Montrachet
Domaine Comte Armand
Domaine de Bellene
Domaine de Montille
Domaine Jean-Noël Gagnard
Domaine Pierre Gaillard
Domaine Thibault Liger-Belair
Dominique Lafon
Domaine Dujac
Héritiers du Comte Lafon
Maison Joseph Drouhin
Sauzet Champagne
Champagne Marguet

Languedoc-Roussillon
Mas Conscience

Spain
Artadi

New Zealand
Churton Wines

USA
Qupé

[paulf]

I have to disagree with the title of this post - Biodynamic wines aren't batsh*t crazy. Some of the methods may be, and some of the winemakers probably are but some of the bio-dynamically produced wines I've tried have been stunning.
For anybody who happens to be in Melbourne on the weekend of Feb 28 and March 1st, The return to Terroir tasting is as part of the Melbourne Food and Wine Festival would give you a good chance to try a whole lot of bio-dynamically produced wines from around the world. They have had it here before, back in 2011, and I still rate it the best wine tasting I've been to, in terms of the quality of the wine.

Max Allen's book 'The Future makers' talked about some of the practices, in the context of sustainable growing and is worth a read as well.

[michel]

I agree - some of the methods are unusual but the wines can be thrilling much more thrilling than conventional chemical methods
fwiw

[marsalla]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-02/b ... es/6063148

Correlation does not imply causality. The more you look into steiner the more batshit crazy it is.

I have yet to see someone pick a itentify a wine as biodynamic blind in a lineup. Natural wines, however......... easy to pick

[Rory]

Chucking my two cents worth in here..... something that really annoys me is those that prupport to be Bio Dynamic, yet aren't fully.
I live and work on the Mornington Peninsula, and there are a couple of wineries who proudly beat their chests to the public about being totally Bio Dynamic. Then we have a vintage like 2011, wet and cold. There was no way on earth those wineries were going to have a harvest without spraying to avoid downy mildew. And they did.
However they didn't tell their loyal public about it.
I had customers coming into the shop asking for one of those labels coz it is biodynamic, and I have the 2011 on the shelf. When I explain to them that in vintages like 2011 they were definitely not bio dynamic, they are shocked. They want to buy a bio dynamic wine to show their friends and cannot believe that this winery, who they have supported for years, didn't tell them about it.

The labeling laws need to be changed here.

[Red Smurf]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-02/biodynamic-wine-picked-by-lunar-cycle-at-cullen-wines/6063148

Correlation does not imply causality. The more you look into steiner the more batshit crazy it is.

I have yet to see someone pick a itentify a wine as biodynamic blind in a lineup. Natural wines, however......... easy to pick

Showed a 'Natural' Chinon to the Grape mates last tasting and no one picked it as being a 'natural' wine.

[Mahmoud Ali]

.... the whole burying cow horns at midnight accompanied by naked virgins dancing around a bonfire on the full moon is out there in crazy land.........

But it would make for one hell of a winery tour!

Mahmoud.

[catchnrelease]

From what I've read what sets apart biodynamic viticulture from simple organic agricultural practices is the 'wholistic' approach to the vineyard and the '500' preparations. I get that different organisms within an environment (vineyard) can affect each other, but grinding up quartz and the effect of saturn, cosmic rays and all this other spiritual mumbo jumbo? Just a marketing strategy for mine.

[Hacker]

I was reading a thread on Wine Berserkers and saw this gem:

"Then we next visited Chateau Pontet Canet. They are now biodynamic and have really bought the "religion" hook line and sinker. I understood a lot of what they were doing in the vineyard and why, but when they talked about liking to have animals (horses, cows and donkeys) around the vineyards because the grapes like the vibes from the animals, that went a bit beyond me."

[pstarr]

Even if BD thinking is a bit mad, I'm not sure it's as crazy as flogging the land, exposing workers to dangerous chemicals, sucking up scarce water & then turning out cheap plonk.

[rossmckay]

Even if BD thinking is a bit mad, I'm not sure it's as crazy as flogging the land, exposing workers to dangerous chemicals, sucking up scarce water & then turning out cheap plonk.

Spot Frikken On

[bdellabosca]

.... the whole burying cow horns at midnight accompanied by naked virgins dancing around a bonfire on the full moon is out there in crazy land.........

But it would make for one hell of a winery tour!

Mahmoud.

Second that... better than any winery tour I've even been on...

[kaos]

Well, I agree it sounds crazy, but the thing with biodynamics isn't that you can understand the methods it is whether or not it is an effective farming practice. A very talented local winemaker (and grower) who is highly acerbic and cynical to a large extent uses biodynamic calendars. He does so because he thinks the results are good. From what I can gather testing of methods have always focussed on soil quality and plant growth/development, and it is generally considered to be no different from organic methods. And this is what I would expect. Where I would be more interested in controlled testing of use of calendars (for planting etc).

[Tucker Wine Studios]

Even though you might be highly critical about some aspects of biodynamics it would be foolish to dismiss all biodynamic wines as rubbish. So I agree that Max Allen’s "Future Winemakers" is a great read especially for the wine consumer that likes to know a bit more about the stories and the people behind these wines.

I also enjoyed reading two other recent books that cover the topics of natural-organic-biodynamic winemaking. These are probably a bit more directed at people concerned with wine making, wine marketing or wine writing but provide also lots of interesting information to the general wine enthusiast.

In “Authentic Wine” Jamie Goode and Sam Harrop strongly advocate what they call “Natural and Sustainable Winemaking”.

Clark Smith describes in “Postmodern Winemaking” various aspects of ‘not-so-natural’ winemaking techniques such as reverse osmosis and micro-oxygenation from a wine scientist’s or researcher’s point of view. He also discusses natural-organic-biodynamic winemaking with a good dollop of scepticism. But you can see how his interest in this topic is driven by scientific curiosity and the constant search for new or alternative ways of making a better product.

Happy reading & drinking,
Mario

[Chuck]

Organic seems to be a reasonable concept; bio is on the fringe with all the planet and cow shit stuff but natural wine is on the fringe of the fringe. That's the way wine was made in the stone ages. The industry has come a long way since then. Strictly for the geeky purists out there with too much time on their hands. You know, the hairy armpit brigade who think the Greens will save the world. If it's policies are put into practice the world will regress back to the stone age. The natural world will probably survive but all we will have will be natural wines. Not for this black duck thank you.

Carl