Mick 1955 wrote:G'Day Mahmoud, I noticed your interest in the Baulkham Vineyard, so I have taken Dan's advice and emailed Tyrrells - will post when I get a reply. And back then (geez I sound old !) they all had the Yellow label.
Thanks Mick, much appreciated. I do know, now that I have checked their website, that Tyrrell's still own or use the Baulkham vineyard because it is mentioned in the 2013 vintage report:
"Tuesday – over cast morning, some drizzly, misty rain and we kept picking with a big team. We finished 4 Acres, Old Hut and the Baulkham. There was mud everywhere and the pickers really earned their money. The fruit is still in good condition but we needed to do some hand sorting. The red fermentation vats are all full and so we were taking ferments off to find a spot for the grapes that were already picked."
Well spotted Mahmoud ! I have just received a reply from Michael Paterson at Tyrrells regarding the elusive Baulkham Vineyard. He says this is a Tyrrells owned vineyard, with the fruit previously going into Vat 11 (hence your '00 Vat 11 Mahmoud) and now it goes into Vat 9.
Mick 1955 wrote:Thanks for that Mike. The Hunter sure was a different place back then !
Mick 1955
Absolutely. I remember staying in some various modest Cessnock motels and eating roast of the day at one of the clubs for next to nothing (with the obligatory schonner or two as well). These days, the HV has become a first class tourist destination.
HI guys, was reading this one and thought i would jump in one this one. Michael is actually incorrect in this instance. The Baulkham vineyard sits up above of the Short Flat vineyard, it is the next little ridge north of the winery. Over the years consistency was always the issue with this vineyard/wine. as part of the revamp of the mid 2000's we stopped making it on it's own as it simply wasn't good enough. In the last couple of years after years of work it has bounced back a little bit but certainly is nowhere near Vat 9 level. Stylistically, baulkham is always bigger and tougher and I wouldn't even consider it for Vat 9. At best it might be Vat 8, and other years (mostly) it goes into Brokenback. Hope that helps. Chris Tyrrell
christyrrell wrote:HI guys, was reading this one and thought i would jump in one this one. Michael is actually incorrect in this instance. The Baulkham vineyard sits up above of the Short Flat vineyard, it is the next little ridge north of the winery. Over the years consistency was always the issue with this vineyard/wine. as part of the revamp of the mid 2000's we stopped making it on it's own as it simply wasn't good enough. In the last couple of years after years of work it has bounced back a little bit but certainly is nowhere near Vat 9 level. Stylistically, baulkham is always bigger and tougher and I wouldn't even consider it for Vat 9. At best it might be Vat 8, and other years (mostly) it goes into Brokenback. Hope that helps.
Chris, thanks for the information but, to be fair, Mick was only writing what he apparently heard back from Tyrrell's.
In any case the short answer I guess, to recap, is that the Baulkham vineyard is still owned by Tyrrell's - the fruit is no longer bottled as a single vineyard wine and instead usually goes into the Brokenback - and in better years it might go into the Vat 8. Since you describe the Baulkham fruit as being "bigger and tougher" does that mean I should broach the '00 Vat 9 ahead of the '00 Vat 11 - and when do you think that should be? Also, I have a couple of bottles of '98 Brokenback - is that now entering its mature phase?
Here in Edmonton, Canada, distribution of Tyrrell's is very limited - the Vat wines apparently are no longer available - at least I don't see them. The last Brokenback I saw was the '98s and the last Vat 9 that I came across was a solitary bottle of the '05 Vat 9 and I didn't hesitate to grab it. In fact we get very few Hunter shirazes here at all though once upon a time we did get the Lindeman's Bin number Hunter shirazes. That was fun - it was the '95 and '96 if I recall.
Thanks for clearing that up Chris. I hope you didn't mind me quoting Michael Paterson - his time and feedback were greatly appreciated. As you can see, there are a number of us with fond memories of Vat 11 (Mahmoud, Mike Hawkins, myself and many more no doubt). I remember having a similar conversation with Richard Earnshaw and Scott Richardson at your cellar door in 2009. As for the Baulkham Vineyard, it is always fascinating learning about the make up of various wines - particularly as this one has appeared in Vat 10, Vat 11, Vat 8 and Brokenback !
christyrrell wrote:HI guys, was reading this one and thought i would jump in one this one. Michael is actually incorrect in this instance. The Baulkham vineyard sits up above of the Short Flat vineyard, it is the next little ridge north of the winery. Over the years consistency was always the issue with this vineyard/wine. as part of the revamp of the mid 2000's we stopped making it on it's own as it simply wasn't good enough. In the last couple of years after years of work it has bounced back a little bit but certainly is nowhere near Vat 9 level. Stylistically, baulkham is always bigger and tougher and I wouldn't even consider it for Vat 9. At best it might be Vat 8, and other years (mostly) it goes into Brokenback. Hope that helps. Chris Tyrrell
Hi Chris,
While you're here, do you mind explaining the Vat system a bit? It's always intrigued me how the numbers were worked out, especially those that seem to sit out of order (Vat 47, Vat 94 etc)
Just received my Tyrrells Private Bin wines Vat 8 , Vat 9 , Vat 47 and Vat 1 2013,s I would like hear if anyone has tried these wines or the old patch Shiraz
Dennisr wrote:Just received my Tyrrells Private Bin wines Vat 8 , Vat 9 , Vat 47 and Vat 1 2013,s I would like hear if anyone has tried these wines or the old patch Shiraz
Will be going up to taste them all next weekend - I will report back. Good to hear they have started arriving - hopefully get mine on Monday!
Tyrrell's have just emailed the reviews by Gary... I have left off the point scores in deference to his subscriber-based site, but clearly Tyrrell's have some kind of agreement to share these reviews with a view that you buy their wine so I feel it is OK to share with the forum. All wines except the Johnno's shiraz still available if anyone is considering joining their Private Bin Club.
Vat 9 Shiraz 2013 Plump ripe berries, pretty and floral with a kiss of vanilla, brown spice, milk chocolate and aniseed, and of course there’s a little earthiness. Medium bodied, fluid and charming, perfect acidity and gentle round tannin, length is spot on – superb. Sings. A mighty release. Up there with 2007 and 2009 for quality.
Vat 8 Shiraz Cabernet 2013 Blueberries, blackberries, clove and aniseed spice, vanilla. Medium to full bodied, ripe and sweetly oaked (in comparison), grainy firm tannin, lots of mouth perfume and a cool finish. Very good. A satisfying wine.
Vat 6 Pinot Noir 2013 A 500 cases made using 30% whole bunches, and you know, idiosyncratic is me, but I love Hunter Pinot. Well rounded, raspberry and strawberry, light earthiness, kiss of vanilla, bunchy spice. Light to medium bodied, clearly defined, crisp strawberry acidity, light slaty tannin on finish. Length excellent. Purity and delight.
Old Patch Shiraz 2013 Dark cherry, sweet earth, cinnamon and choc-vanilla oak accent – but as ever, it seems of the earth. Medium bodied, full in the mouth – rolls around with dark fruit and powdery tannin, firm acidity – almond on the finish. Aggressive as a child, but should be a classic with some bottle age. Be patient.
Johnno's Shiraz 2013 - SOLD OUT Smells a bit like a Mornington Pinot! Dark cherry, spice, touch of beetroot, gentle vanilla oak. Medium bodied, ripe fleshy fine, yet sandy tannin, dark cherries, raspberry acidity, very good length – all raspberry and tannin to close, though its acid structure carries it long too. Quintessential Hunter Burgundy.
HVD and The Hill Pinot Noir 2013 Bright strawberry and raspberry fruit, gentle bunchy spice and vanilla oak. Medium bodied, light red fruited, crisp acidity, light grainy tannin and a clean finish. Touch of bunchy stalk firms up the finish. Somewhat cordial like as a young wine, but should develop well with a little bottle age. Tastes like Pinot and a good one at that.
Some brief impressions of what I tasted over the long weekend:
Pinot Noir: HVD & the Hill – Much better release than the 2012. So approachable and inviting, dried strawberry nose with some real intensity, and a ripe palate of berry coulis. Bought a few as ‘drink while you wait’ Pinots, and for $20 a pop it is insane value Vat 6 – So closed, but so well structured. Took an age in glass to unlock the aromas, but more depth and interest than the HVD & the Hill. Where the HVD & the Hill was so obvious, so drinkable and intense, the Vat 6 is a wine you just know will explode in 5-8 years’ time. I won’t be touching a bottle until its 5th birthday.
Shiraz: Old Patch – Probably the most amazing colour I’ve seen in a Hunter Shiraz. Vibrant, clear, deep purple, with some crimson tints. Just amazing. Lighter coloured than the other Shirazes too, but not lacking structure for the long term. Classic purple and red berries and earth, a proper sense of terroir coming from the oldest vines left in NSW. Vat 9 – Deeper than my memory of recent Vat 9s, but still in the classic Hunter medium bodied category. Pristine. So clear, so beautiful. A darker colour than the Old Patch, but as I have seen other reviewers say, very approachable now. One to buy up and savour. Vat 8 – Usually my favourite in the line-up, I find the Cabernet component rounds the wine out beautifully, and adds some subtle complexity to the sheer, straight-out awesomeness of the Vat 9. Hunter Cabernet too. Softer aromas than the other two, and I think it has been blown off the table to be honest. Still a great wine, and still worth buying at $50 a pop. Three distinctly different wines in the Shiraz line-up, all with their positives, and showing that 2013 will be one to remember.
If the 13s are this good, I am salivating thinking what the 14s will be like.
Yes, greatly appreciated Dan. Like sjw 11, I would also be interested in your thoughts on cellaring for the Vat 9. Interesting that you mentioned the Vat 9 was "deeper" than recent vintages. I was surprised at the lightness of the '11 when I first tasted it - I'm wondering if it has put on a bit of weight since then (has anyone tasted the '11 recently ?). My memory of earlier Vat 9's is certainly of them having good depth, in the medium-body Hunter Shiraz context.
While we're at it what are the impressions about cellaring the '00 and '05 Vat 9 - both are vintages I tasted at cellar door. I must admit I was more moved by the '00 than I was by the '05.
sjw_11 wrote:Thanks the notes Dan. What is your view on cellaring for the Vat 9 say? I guess you didn't try the Johnno's as sold out?
For my tastes, I will happily leave them a good 7-8 years before opening one. I like Hunter shiraz in that mid range - not fully developed and aged (although with the modern Hunter style moving away form the brett-smelling barnyard funkiness of days gone by, this may change!), but with complexity from a few years of sleep and still some primary fruit.
I imagine Halliday will declare is drink by 2055 or something like that, but who has the time for that? I'll be happy getting through mine from 2020 to 2028 I'd say.
Interestingly though, I had a 1996 Vat 8 over the weekend, and it was travelling quite well. Colour was brick-brown, but the nose and palate still going strong. 33% Coonawarra Cab from Leconfield may have been partially the reason, and the Cab characters were strong and delicious.
Mick 1955 wrote:Yes, greatly appreciated Dan. Like sjw 11, I would also be interested in your thoughts on cellaring for the Vat 9. Interesting that you mentioned the Vat 9 was "deeper" than recent vintages. I was surprised at the lightness of the '11 when I first tasted it - I'm wondering if it has put on a bit of weight since then (has anyone tasted the '11 recently ?). My memory of earlier Vat 9's is certainly of them having good depth, in the medium-body Hunter Shiraz context.
Cheers Mick 1955
Deeper coloured from memory. We had the 2009 Hunter wines (Vat 9, Graveyard and Kiss) in the Grange vs the Hunter tasting that afternoon, and the Vat 9 2013 had more depth than any of those wines. I love the colours they are getting lately, that really vibrant purple tint looks stunning.
Mahmoud Ali wrote:While we're at it what are the impressions about cellaring the '00 and '05 Vat 9 - both are vintages I tasted at cellar door. I must admit I was more moved by the '00 than I was by the '05.
Cheers...........................Mahmoud
Haven't had a 2000, although reviews I've seen of the 05 weren't particularly favourable. It was right when Tyrrell's stuck their necks out to lead the charge in cleaning up the Hunter wines - so the reviews may be more a result of tasting something not expected than something 'not good'. That said, if I had any 2000 Vat 9, I'd definitely crack one soon to see how they were travelling.
I am back in Adelaide for a very quick run this weekend mostly to drink as much as I can from the cellar... Im tempted to open a Vat 47 Chardonnay, perhaps 2011, as this is about the only Tyrrell's private bin purchase which might be about ready to drink.
