gap wrote:From what I've seen of Italian imports I prefer the local interpretations and much prefer supporting our Aussie winemakers.
Pretty crazy statement unless you have been restricted to the very low end that comes out via a hot container.
I'm happy to be pointed toward the light but I have found most Aussie-Italians are simply dry reds in an international style and unlike Italian wines, they fail to avoid the horrid hangovers.
I'm not sure how to help an Australian resident in their Italian wine quest, keep an eye out for winemaker dinners I suppose, as retail is quite expensive. I highly recommend Tuscany/Piedmont for a holiday. Great food and wine ( famous wines I may add ) that certainly seems to be a lot cheaper than going to your local and having dinner & sharing a bottle of shiraz ( or Clare Valley nebbiolo ).
Last edited by JamieBahrain on Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Barolo is Barolo, you can't describe it, just as you can't describe Picasso"
gap wrote:From what I've seen of Italian imports I prefer the local interpretations and much prefer supporting our Aussie winemakers.
Pretty crazy statement unless you have been restricted to the very low end that comes out via a hot container.
I'm happy to be pointed toward the light but I have found most Aussie-Italians are simply dry reds in an international style and unlike Italian wines, they fail to avoid the horrid hangovers.
I'm not sure how to help an Australian resident in their Italian wine quest, keep an eye out for winemaker dinners I suppose, as retail is quite expensive. I highly recommend Tuscany/Piedmont for a holiday. Great food and wine ( famous wines I may add ) that certainly seems to be a lot cheaper than going to your local and having sharing a bottle of shiraz ( or Clare Valley nebbiolo ).
Yes, local interpretations are just that, interpretations. So a local sangiovese can never be (or taste like) a Chianti or a nebbiolo taste like a Barolo. On the latter, if you want a local wine that's close to a Barolo try the Pizzini Coronamenta but it will cost you similar to a decent Barolo. Similarly, a Clonakilla SV is a terrific wine, one of Australia's best, but is it a Cote Rotie? Not by a country mile.
Australian wines are different to Old World wines and should be celebrated (where appropriate) for what they are, not in comparison to what wine the same variety of grape makes in another country. To do the latter belittles both.
It's more than that though and I'd hate to see Caspar miss out by believing the odd and often mediocre Aussie foray into Italian varietals can meet his inquisitiveness toward an ancient wine growing culture. Italy makes some of the world's greatest wines. You will need a few lifetimes to discover many other unheard of but very good wines and wine growing areas- I've just spent time in Piedmont and agin the whites were fantastic from Gaja right down to native grapes and rieslings. What has been amazing for me is I can have gratification for many months drinking pretty cheap ( OK not in OZ ) wines such as Barbera and Dolcetto prior to craving something far more expensive.
What could be a great way of commencing your quest is start out with the cheaper stuff but try and get a few guys together and form a bit of an Italian club. Pool your funds together to increase your exposure. It's still hard though and I get the minefield with fickle wines such as nebbiolo where you buy an expensive Barolo yet it is shut down. Or, being weened on sweet Australian shiraz you don't get the structure of Italian wines or sometimes a natural austerity ( muted fruit c'mon New World fruit sluts ).
I don't want to slag off at the Australian critics or professional writers but please remember they are very new at it. And the international experts, well, some seem keen to idolize then commercialize the wines as much as they can to ride on profitable coat tails. Apart from traveling to the region I find obsessed bloggers and posters off the international wine forums provide amazing information and knowledge- so google is your friend!
I don't know if you are in ADL but perhaps we should do an Italian offline and I'll source the wines and get them to OZ at real world prices.
I'm noting a lot of old Italian wines dinners in Australia too at the moment. Here's a game fraught with danger with many bottles from pretty mediocre producers and the big issue will always be provenance ( oh yes and it's a bummer when your 1930's Monfortinos are fizzy and the cork is labelled barbera so fakes are on the rise ). But when you get the good bottles, cellared properly, WOW, mind-blowing! Sourcing old Italians is best done from very cool European countries.
"Barolo is Barolo, you can't describe it, just as you can't describe Picasso"
JamieBahrain wrote: I don't know if you are in ADL but perhaps we should do an Italian offline and I'll source the wines and get them to OZ at real world prices.
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Hey
I'm in Adelaide, just let me know where, and when Jamie!
JamieBahrain wrote:I don't want to slag off at the Australian critics or professional writers but please remember they are very new at it. And the international experts, well, some seem keen to idolize then commercialize the wines as much as they can to ride on profitable coat tails. Apart from traveling to the region I find obsessed bloggers and posters off the international wine forums provide amazing information and knowledge- so google is your friend!
I don't know if you are in ADL but perhaps we should do an Italian offline and I'll source the wines and get them to OZ at real world prices.
Hey Jamie - I'm in Sydney unfortunately but thanks for the offer. I understand that there is no substitute for getting out there and trying a wide variety of producers and getting a feel for what you like as wine as with many things is incredibly subjective. At least i have a bit of a starting point now !
JamieBahrain wrote: I don't know if you are in ADL but perhaps we should do an Italian offline and I'll source the wines and get them to OZ at real world prices.
.
Hey
I'm in Adelaide, just let me know where, and when Jamie!
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Ditto Jamie.
I reckon I know a few people who would be interested in this, a few with connections to some Italian restaurants to maybe get a good deal for the theme.
I've got a magnum of 1996 Giacomo Brezza Castellero Barolo handy that I'm not sure what to do with - do you think it will be any good for such a dinner?
I'd be down for an Italian offline if I'm back at a time that suits everyone.. can get good deals at times (though there have been a bunch of unimpressive 68 Barolos flooding the market… I'd advise skipping them unless you really know what you're looking for).
JamieBahrain wrote: I don't know if you are in ADL but perhaps we should do an Italian offline and I'll source the wines and get them to OZ at real world prices.
.
Hey
I'm in Adelaide, just let me know where, and when Jamie!
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I could be tempted as well Jamie!!
Cheers Ian
If you had to choose between drinking great wine or winning Lotto, which would you choose - Red or White?
1) There will need to be a lead time. I'd have hoped for 6 months so the whites can settle especially. That puts us into the kind of weather that isn't great for drinking big Barolos?
2) How much per head and what level of wine experience are you after? I'm not a mug and any purchases I make will have receipts. The cheaper the easier and quicker- now obviously if you want to go down the way of Giacosa red labels or Soldera it gets a little tougher as I have to buy full cases of each an then crack one for the dinner? Not ideal for me but I'm sure there are solutions. For instance, I can ask around and see if anyone in HKG wants to sell from their private sellers ( retail is a rip off which is why I buy from Europe).The issue of course is provenance. I can not emphasize this enough and I'm convinced a number of modest Italian experiences I've read about on the forums are due poor cellaring
3) Food is important but not that important. Simple Italian cuisine is fine- OK Tuscan dishes with Brunello, Piedmontese with B&B. No cheese!
4) Very old wines it is not worth the gamble of provenance and shipment to Australia. Frankly, the glory in most Italian wines is inside 20 years.
Ian
I enjoy the wines of Brezza and I had lunch there a few weeks back. I was with my well-connected Italian friend who is mates with the current winemaker; over a couple of bottles of Brezza Sarmassa Barolo ( 2000 & 2005 ) he mentioned that their wines are either very good or below par for the vintage. Hmmm…so your 96 in magnum would be perfect if we go down the line of a more modest experience but if its a gala event it could be a gamble- then again, could be a good dinner wine.
"Barolo is Barolo, you can't describe it, just as you can't describe Picasso"
Reading the comments about buying Australian versions of Italian grape varieties two excellent examples from my visits to Australia come to mind:
Pizzini's '04 Sangiovese and Margan's '05 Barbera - also, at a much lower price point was the retro-label Seaview line of Nebbiolo, Sangiovese, and Barbera as well as whites from Fiano and Vermentino - well worth seeking out.
Some recommendations which might be in price range (with apologies where already mentioned}. Whites Càdei Frati Lugana I Frati; Pieropan Soave (the Calvarino is terrific); Belisario Verdicchio di Matelica (Riserva "Cambrugiano might be in budget); reliable producers: Alois Lageder' Felluga - Livio better than Marco & Jermann (but pricey). Reds Chianti Classico: Riecine, Nittardi, Fontodi (if the budget permits go for Vigna del Sorbo); Frescobaldi Chianti Rùfina Nipozzano Riserva; Le Pupille Morellino di Scansano; As mentioned above Vino Nobile di Montepulciano is a good bet - Avignonesi, Le Casalte & Poliziano are v. good but so are others; Marcarini Dolcetto d'Alba *; Nebbiolo d'Alba (& Barbera) provides some value from the great Barolo producers*, Vallana's Spanna (Nebbiolo) is rustic but characterful; Valpolicella - ripasso much better, try Allegrini, Masi, Tedeschi or a current fave Buglioni. Etna is the current 'new' source of real interest, Terre Nere likely to be worth a punt; Vesevo's wine from Campania are of real interest & good value. And if you have a sweet tooth, I'm sure I've seen Chiarlo's Moscato d'Asti Nivole (maybe the most delicious wine in the world) whilst in Oz. La Spinetta is top notch & there are others. All with the added bonus of being v. low in alcohol. Avoid Asti Spumante. The attraction of Italian wines (especially reds) is their ability to accompany food, so well.
'Italian' wines I enjoyed from Australian, recently, include Pizzini (despite the derision of my Canberran friend, their Pinot Grigio is decent), Primo & most of all Vinea Marson. Regretfully, I've only tried Castagna's Syrah.
2013 Giovanni Almondo Roero Arneis "Bricco delle Cilliegie" is my monthly quaffer. You can't find a purer Arneis. In Australia, you have probably seen Bruno Giacosa's rather pedestrian expression or perhaps Vietti's fresh and fragrant example.
You can get this wine in Oz. Worth a one off try! Please be reminded it's a 10 euro wine even if it comes in at 1er Cru Burgundy pricing Down Under! But as it is one of the best examples of this native Piedmontese varietal it is worth a crack.
"Barolo is Barolo, you can't describe it, just as you can't describe Picasso"
twelve bottles is having their mid year sale. A great way to pick up a variety of italian wines at wholesale. If you're in Melbourne you can even go there and try on the day.
Hi Chris I am not certain where you live but one way to become better educated is the Italian Food & Wine festival in Sydney http://www.sydneyitalianwinefood.com.au It could be a bit hectic being on a Sunday, but may be worth a try.
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