Auctions

Blesso · Post by **Blesso** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:22 pm

Hey guys,
I've been browsing some back vintages and some cult wines lately and have noticed that some of the online wine auctions offer some great deals. Does anyone on the forum know of any good auction sites that have had a good track record? I'd rather get a heads up on the more reputable sites before I start to blow some cash.

Any help would be awesome.

Cheers,
Dayne

Diddy · Post by **Diddy** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:37 pm

Have a look at this:-

http://www.wickman.net.au/wineauction/w ... zuhrqiSzyB

Personally, I'd recommend Wickman's - there's no membership fee and the commissions are amongst the lowest out there.

Post by **sjw_11** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:39 pm

I have used both Langtons, Oddbins, and way back when Grays and I have bought from Ebay. Ive had no particular problems with any (though some on here have had with Langtons)... I tended to buy from Oddbins only because I find they have more "random" cheapies versus langtons and they are around the corner from my folks place.

Blesso · Post by **Blesso** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:04 pm

Cheers guys,
I've been looking at wickmans and they seem pretty good...I'll have a look at Oddbins

rooman · Post by **rooman** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:43 pm

Diddy wrote:Have a look at this:-

http://www.wickman.net.au/wineauction/w ... zuhrqiSzyB

Personally, I'd recommend Wickman's - there's no membership fee and the commissions are amongst the lowest out there.

I would love to use Wickmans but he really needs to improve the design of his website. In short he needs to try and get the functionality up close to Langtons who I regard as having the best designed site. My big problem with Langton is that the recent owners of the business appear to use the site to artificially keep the price of wines up near the retail price of wines in shops which are owned by the same owner namely Woolies.

When you go back over the sales results for Langtons it often has a passed in rate of 80 or 90%. There is no way if Langtons was an independent operation that it could allow its business to operate with this degree of failure from each auction. When I look at online auction houses offshore in comparison they normally start each wine at $0. With Langtons it starts with an opening price on bottles often close to retail. Even the so called no reserve auctions failed to start with a price set at $0. I fundamentally can not see how you can call an auction as reserve free and yet the opening price is set at $10 or $50 or $100. Hence why I would love Wickmans to fill the void.

As for Greys though I have no proof there have often been rumours that there is a reasonable amount of heat affected stock that ends up on this site in recent years.

rens · Post by **rens** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:39 pm

I use Wickmans for most of my auction purchases. Yes the website is a bit clunky, but I don't think it has the budget that Woolies puts into Langtons.
The thing I like about Wickmans is you know the rough provenance of wines you are bidding on. It gives me some peace of mind knowing how the wine has been stored.
Also Mark is more than happy to answer Emails, facebook and twitter and his responses are timely. I've also sold 3 or 4 cases via Wickmans and was happy with the results, fast payment and the communication.
I have purchased elsewhere and just to sight one example, I purchased 6 bottles in an unopened case. When the case arrived it was clear even before I opened it that it was going to be heat effected by the faded appearance of the box and the tape. I opened it and the corks were bulging and some had a slight leak. Opened one and confirmed it and sent the other 5 back to the same auction house (sorry if you are reading this and you brought 5 bottles of 1999 Dead arm that were heat effected).
Agree with rooman about the no reserve Auctions. They need to start at $0, or even a dutch auction where they count down from (for example) $100 to $0. You bid when you are happy with the price. 1st in wins the auction.

ads_11 · Post by **ads_11** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:28 pm

I am new to the auction process as well. Recently I have bought at two auctions, namely Oddbins and just a few days ago through Wickmans.

I have had no issues as yet, with the Oddbins purchase easily picked up in person here in Adelaide (I prefer this to waiting for Auspost to deliver) and awaiting delivery of the Wickmans purchases. Time will tell as to how these wines have been looked after in the past.

I concur with others regarding the starting prices for these Auctions.

Cheers
Ads

markj · Post by **markj** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:43 pm

I've been buying fairly regularly over the last 12 months from Sterling, Wickman and Grays and may have been lucky but have had a pretty good experience with all.

Waiters Friend · Post by **Waiters Friend** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:59 am

I've had terrible experiences with Sterling in Perth, and encourage people to stay away from it - so I have less competition when bidding

rooman · Post by **rooman** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:55 am

rens wrote:I use Wickmans for most of my auction purchases. Yes the website is a bit clunky, but I don't think it has the budget that Woolies puts into Langtons.
The thing I like about Wickmans is you know the rough provenance of wines you are bidding on. It gives me some peace of mind knowing how the wine has been stored.
Also Mark is more than happy to answer Emails, facebook and twitter and his responses are timely. I've also sold 3 or 4 cases via Wickmans and was happy with the results, fast payment and the communication.
I have purchased elsewhere and just to sight one example, I purchased 6 bottles in an unopened case. When the case arrived it was clear even before I opened it that it was going to be heat effected by the faded appearance of the box and the tape. I opened it and the corks were bulging and some had a slight leak. Opened one and confirmed it and sent the other 5 back to the same auction house (sorry if you are reading this and you brought 5 bottles of 1999 Dead arm that were heat effected).
Agree with rooman about the no reserve Auctions. They need to start at $0, or even a dutch auction where they count down from (for example) $100 to $0. You bid when you are happy with the price. 1st in wins the auction.

Please don't misunderstand me, I would love to use Wickmans. I actually find your use of the word "clunky" perfectly sums up my experience in the nutshell. However in this global world, I am sure he could build a state of the art platform for less than he think. A friend of mine a couple of years ago put me onto a global website,Odesk, where web designers from all over the world but mainly asia and the sub continent will bid for the work you are after. We had received quotes of up to $2000 for a simple website in Australia. After putting up the offer, we ended up using a web designer in Nepal who did the entire job for $100. My guess is Mark could get a comparable site to Wickmans for under a grand through Odesk.

Mark

TiggerK · Post by **TiggerK** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:04 am

I find Langtons a bit hit and miss, although the hits do outnumber the misses. Heat affected bottles are the big risk you have to take with auctions. I'm sure plenty of people just sell because of debt, divorce, death or maybe because their tastes have changed, but a good percentage will be sold because they tried one or two bottles and they were crap, or heat affected, so they send the rest to auction. I've talked to plenty of people who have said they've done just this. Usually these wines are divided up in smaller lots, so you won't see many lots of 5 or 11 bottles!

TCA happens randomly, but that's not an issue with any auction house, just an issue in general, particularly (I find) with Aussie corks from the 90's and early 00's. Not all, but many (Aussie) wineries will replace TCA wines (usually with current vintage), no matter how or when they were purchased, so that's a little bit more peace of mind.

I wish Mark Wickman every success, he's a gentleman. His website may not be as good as Langtons, but getting it to that point would be expensive and I have my doubts you could do it for under a grand, although overseas developers are indeed crazy cheap compared to Oz based ones, so maybe. But communication issues often make it a very painful process. Anyway, I've had no issues with it for the few purchases I've made. Don't see why being a bit clunky should stop anyone from using it, if there's a wine you want, bid, wait and see!

And yes, the reserve prices at Langtons have gone skywards, hence I'm not buying much at all from them these days. Of course the sellers form includes a reserve price option for each wine, so I assume that can be zero, but suspect most just leave it at the reserve price Langtons suggest.

Cheers
TiggerK

Blesso · Post by **Blesso** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:45 am

Wickmans it is!
I've been browsing wickmans and found that the prices are pretty good, and some that are very low, and this may reflect the quality of the wine, however, at that price it is worth the risk. Seems to be a bit talk about people intentionally sending dud wine to auction, seems pretty harsh to me, and I would expect that karma will be more than happy to send a few duds back their way.

rooman · Post by **rooman** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:08 pm

Tigger

I think Mark would be surprised how much bang he would get for his buck using one of the offshore web designers. Remember $1000 is close to a months salary in places like Nepal etc. My experience with the designer we used in Kathmandu was superb. I sent a layout of what we wanted and then we hoped on Skype and chatted through the design refinements.

Mark

dave vino · Post by **dave vino** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:26 pm

From my understanding Mark is a developer and doing all the work himself. He is slowly building it up.

The Langtons system would be $1M easy. Along with support and SLA's no good trying to call a guy in Nepal 20mins before the auction ends. Looks to be an end to end system in terms of logistics and now with the bar coding on each bottle being used it would be tracking it all the way through. Maybe it is a new system with some teething issues.

maybs · Post by **maybs** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:55 pm

So far I've only bought a few orders, through Langtons, and so far haven't tasted any duds though there are a lot I haven't tasted yet. The prides are not cheap but I've pinched a few bargains, and they tend to have some quality stuff.

I almost bought something on Wickmans the other night and plan on giving them a go shortly

phillisc · Post by **phillisc** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:01 pm

Finally got a bottle that I had been chasing for a while at Wickam's. I like the service and don't see it clunky at all, rather it is quite authentic.

Incidently have not brought any from Langton's for a while but picked up two bottles tonight, same wine as above but two different vintages.

Happy that the auto-bid thingy worked.

Cheers
Craig

odyssey · Post by **odyssey** » Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:52 pm

Like many others I have been registered with Wickmans for some time but only recently made a purchase after becoming disillusioned with Langtons over the course of the past year. Spoke to Mark on the phone today, he's a nice bloke and I like the idea of dealing with a homegrown operation who take the time to look after their business rather than a big shareholder-driven machine. I really hope he can continue to pull in more vendors and expand the range.

Sterling I have used only twice, I had a good experience with them but I worry about shipping all the way from coast to coast.

I tend to look at obscure/unpopular styles/regions that I love, and underrated years. Spend some time doing research on wines with low or no bids that sound interesting.

And force yourself to let go of the big fish when they get too big. Another one will come along.

Take the emotion out of it and with a bit of research and selective care you can get excellent wines in good condition at decent pricing.

markg · Post by **markg** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:26 pm

Hey chaps,

Thank you for the insights and feedback. I love it !

I couldn't agree more about the website being clunky and hard to navigate, and I really do apologise. I sometimes navigate through the website and wish I could give myself a slap behind the ear!

I assign time to work on it daily (even if it doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t seem like it most of the time) and have very big and (what I believe are) innovative plans for it. But first things first; the basic functionality and useability need a lot of attention; I acknowledge that and understand your frustration.

I used to do work with eLance and Smarterwork UK and am a big fan of places like oDesk. The main problem is me and communicating what I wantÃ¢â‚¬Â¦ it ends up being time consuming and frustrating and I end up doing the job myself, probably an issue I should sort out or see a psychologist about.

My main focus has been to never lose sight of the customer and that takes up alot of time for one person and I attempt to do my best to accommodate most requests but one person (and a part time teenage boy) can only do so much at a time

I am slowly building up the business to a point where we are growing (my sister has started work in the office now part time) and to expand. But my way has always been to build carefully and with solid foundations, and not be a flash in the pan. I want you to be able to buy from me now and in 20 years when you open the bottle of wine you can tell me how wonderful it is (and invite me around to sample the remainder).

Please keep the constructive criticism coming and if you have the time and want to have a say in how my website is put together I would love to discuss your ideas.

Polymer · Post by **Polymer** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:43 pm

Hi Mark,

Here are a few things I saw when going through your site.

Can you list more than 20 listings on a page? It can be a bit cumbersome to go 20 at a time.
An explanation of what all of the letters, etc, mean. "P" means Photo. What about "H"? I was looking for some sort of legend or setting where I could change the number of listings per page but I couldn't find it.
Shipping - The site mentions you can store the wine in Adelaide for awhile but how long is that? For example, with monthly auctions it might take a few auctions for some to reach a point where it makes sense to ship (depends on the wine, etc). I'm sure you don't want to be holding wine there forever (as it costs you money). Langtons doesn't appear to have a time limit but the fact that they're having several auctions a week plus the volume means people (in general) are more likely to hit a point where shipping makes more sense.

What I do like about the site is there is more information on each item (like ebay sort of) rather than a single line like Langtons...I also like there is a reasonable effort to check providence...

markg · Post by **markg** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:13 pm

Polymer wrote:Hi Mark,

Here are a few things I saw when going through your site.

Can you list more than 20 listings on a page? It can be a bit cumbersome to go 20 at a time.
An explanation of what all of the letters, etc, mean. "P" means Photo. What about "H"? I was looking for some sort of legend or setting where I could change the number of listings per page but I couldn't find it.
Shipping - The site mentions you can store the wine in Adelaide for awhile but how long is that? For example, with monthly auctions it might take a few auctions for some to reach a point where it makes sense to ship (depends on the wine, etc). I'm sure you don't want to be holding wine there forever (as it costs you money). Langtons doesn't appear to have a time limit but the fact that they're having several auctions a week plus the volume means people (in general) are more likely to hit a point where shipping makes more sense.

What I do like about the site is there is more information on each item (like ebay sort of) rather than a single line like Langtons...I also like there is a reasonable effort to check providence...

Thanks for the feedback Poly.

>>Can you list more than 20 listings on a page? It can be a bit cumbersome to go 20 at a time.<<
I plan to make it configurable for the user so you can set the number you are comfortable with.

>>An explanation of what all of the letters, etc, mean.<<
I plan to add tooltips to the icons and a explanation page this week actually.

>> store the wine in Adelaide for awhile but how long is that?<<
I am quite flexible at the moment, some people take a few months, thats fine. The only caveat I have is that everything has to be shipped at once once you decide to ship otherwise I end up juggling lots of individual parcels of unrelated bottles.There are only a few people who do it anyway but if it starts to become too cumbersome then thats when I will have to introduce policies etc. But yes, I should add something to the shipping page so its not so ambiguous.

>>What I do like about the site is there is more information on each item (like ebay sort of) rather than a single line like Langtons...I also like there is a reasonable effort to check providence.
Thank you. I look at it from the buyers perspective and try to give as much info as I can gather so you are comfortable with your purchase and you can decide the level of risk you want to take with a bid. I have a project running in the sideline to try to link wines to personal bloggers reviews and even to reviews on the forums, I think reviews from normal wine enthusiasts are the best way to determine the best chance of how well an aged wine may be drinking at the moment.

Thanks again Pol!

dave vino · Post by **dave vino** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:35 pm

I think H = Hot Auction where there has been a bit of action?

markg · Post by **markg** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:48 pm

dave vino wrote:I think H = Hot Auction where there has been a bit of action?

Yes, thats correct Dave, sorry its a bit naff actually. I need to rethink the criteria as to what lot is hot or not and base it on a combination of weighted actions. Bids would weigh more than a view .. and multiple views from the same IP address would count each time but weigh less for subsequent views. I was also thinking of adding a score in for when somebody tracks or memorises a lot, that would make it hotter too.

Polymer · Post by **Polymer** » Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:46 pm

I thought it might be "H"ot but when I listed the Hot auctions certain ones weren't there. Definitely a legend of some sort would be useful...

Happy to hear about the shipping stuff..I think others would definitely like to understand that as well...

camw · Post by **camw** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:19 am

Given the trading condition changes coming to Langton's, I think a lot of people will be looking for new venues to sell and buy ...

Alan Foo · Post by **Alan Foo** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:12 pm

camw wrote:Given the trading condition changes coming to Langton's, I think a lot of people will be looking for new venues to sell and buy ...

I will be keeping away from them. Their new website on the auction is also wasting too much of my time.
Alan

odyssey · Post by **odyssey** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:30 pm

Could be a really good time for Mark to advertise to vendors - the differences between his business and the draconian vendor regulations of "other" businesses....

markg · Post by **markg** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:56 pm

odyssey wrote:Could be a really good time for Mark to advertise to vendors - the differences between his business and the draconian vendor regulations of "other" businesses....

Thanks chaps.. Actually one of my goals this year has been to tempt a percentage of imported wine business over this way.. if you are interested in placing some at auction I will be happy to have a chat to see what we can do.

Side note:
I have made arrangements for wine to be dropped off in Sydney for qualifying vendors (ie. a decent amount of good quality wine that will cover the costs of outsourcing the logistics and storage, 6 bottles of the same wine and vintage worth approx. $50+ in value each).

I am still on the lookout for a drop off facility in Melbourne too, if anybody has any thoughts ?

Highlander · Post by **Highlander** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:50 pm

Hey Guys,

New to the forum and actually first post - keen to chat more and learn plenty about wine.

I have a fair collection, mostly household names and have been contemplating potentially selling some as not getting through them as quickly as I used to.

Have looked at a few auction sites, esp. those mentioned below as well as eBay.

Does anyone know of a more effective way of selling??

Keen to hear thoughts.

Cheers, Highlander

Diddy · Post by **Diddy** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:57 pm

markg wrote:I am still on the lookout for a drop off facility in Melbourne too, if anybody has any thoughts ?

You can drop them off at my place - I'll keep an eye on them for you! :lol:

Seriously though, how about a storage place like Kennards - they'll accept deliveries on your behalf.

You'd probably need a Melbourne agent though to handle things for you.

markg · Post by **markg** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:01 pm

Diddy wrote:
markg wrote:I am still on the lookout for a drop off facility in Melbourne too, if anybody has any thoughts ?

You can drop them off at my place - I'll keep an eye on them for you!

Seriously though, how about a storage place like Kennards - they'll accept deliveries on your behalf.

You'd probably need a Melbourne agent though to handle things for you.

Yes, thats right. Its the manpower..

I have approached a few businesses and when they understand what it is I need they run a mile, too time intensive.

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