2010 En Primeur Bordeaux wines - delivered !!

[rooman]

Did anyone buy in the 2010 en primeur boreaux wine campaign? If so have you received your wines yet? I purchased some through Ultimo and so far am getting no response to queries as to when they will be delivered. This is really starting to p### me off.

Mark
PS pls no posts about how people no longer buy Bordeaux because they are not the price they were in 1985.

[LGW]

Got my solitary bottle of 2010 pontet canet in August!

Got to try a bit in a mini vertical of recent CPCs a few days ago...much richer, almost non French. the 2005 was more classical and my favorite in the line up on the night.

[Mike Hawkins]

I received all mine last year

[Dave Dewhurst]

I got mine last year too.

Didn't Ultimo close down?

Cheers

Dave

[rooman]

Got my solitary bottle of 2010 pontet canet in August!

Got to try a bit in a mini vertical of recent CPCs a few days ago...much richer, almost non French. the 2005 was more classical and my favorite in the line up on the night.

That is nice to hear. I have a case of the 2005 tucked away. I bought a fair amount of the various 2005 Bordeaux wines as it was the birth year of my first child.

I am very concerned however that everyone received their 2010 last year. Vintage Cellars now owns the shop so it seems I will have to contact the management of the company to try and resolve this. Surely there must be other people out there who purchased some of the 2010 from Ultimo.

[Diddy]

I would suggest that allegations of fraud against a retailer are a little premature at best, foolish at worst...

[Diddy]

The more I think about it, make that defamatory at worst...

[rooman]

The more I think about it, make that defamatory at worst...

I have clarified the comment to make it clear that it is a matter for the police to establish whether there was no intention to deliver the wine when the money was taken or not. As for the facts, 12 months ago I I was told it would be delivered early last year. Later in the year I phoned and was told it was "soon". Now no one answers my emails requesting advise on a delivery date. As 2011 is about to start being delivered and every other wine retailer in Australia has already delivered their 2010, including the other retailers I purchased 2010 stock from, I am not sure I think it is premature any more.

[Diddy]

For it to amount to an instance of fraud, the necessary elements that would need to be established are deception and dishonesty. I believe the NSW law also provides for wilful false promises, but again it would be necessary to show that the retailer had an intention to defraud by way of the false promise. By virtue of the fact that others have confirmed they received their orders, I would suspect on face value that is not the case.

I'd imagine you would have much greater prospect of success pursuing this matter under the provisions of the Australian Consumer Law or civilly.

Have you tried NSW Fair Trading?

I'm not familiar with the store in question, but a quick Google search reveals it changed ownership recently. Possibly a lost order followed up by poor customer service?

In that regard, have you even tried calling them to talk about it?

This post is not to be construed as legal advice of any sort

[Diddy]

I have clarified the comment to make it clear that it is a matter for the police to establish whether there was no intention to deliver the wine when the money was taken or not.

Your edited post is better, but I still think you're jumping the gun without having taken some simple and reasonable steps to hopefully get the matter amicably resolved.

[rooman]

For it to amount to an instance of fraud, the necessary elements that would need to be established are deception and dishonesty. I believe the NSW law also provides for wilful false promises, but again it would be necessary to show that the retailer had an intention to defraud by way of the false promise. By virtue of the fact that others have confirmed they received their orders, I would suspect on face value that is not the case.

I'd imagine you would have much greater prospect of success pursuing this matter under the provisions of the Australian Consumer Law or civilly.

Have you tried NSW Fair Trading?

I'm not familiar with the store in question, but a quick Google search reveals it changed ownership recently. Possibly a lost order followed up by poor customer service?

In that regard, have you even tried calling them to talk about it?

You are correct the store changed hands but the previous owner has stayed on and is aware I am chasing him. I called repeatedly last year and was promised delivery soon. I have also sent emails which are now being ignored. I definitely don't think it is a case of a lost order.

I will try senior management of the new owners first since I don't for a second believe they would have any idea there is an issue here. The more tricky question with the sale of the business is whether they think it is their problem or the prior owner's problem. I am really hopeful they take a broader view of things.

[rooman]

I have clarified the comment to make it clear that it is a matter for the police to establish whether there was no intention to deliver the wine when the money was taken or not.

Your edited post is better, but I still think you're jumping the gun without having taken some simple and reasonable steps to hopefully get the matter amicably resolved.

Diddy, I will try one more time but I really believe now I am being strung along. The fact is wine retailers who offer Bordeaux en premier are supposed to deliver the wine when it is shipped which in the case of 2010 was mid last year. If they answered my emails requesting an update I would be less p###ed off given we are talking a decent six cases.

[Diddy]

Interesting scenario! If I understand your posts correctly, you are alleging that the business was trading insolvent at the time and induced you into contractual relations with them, but with zero intention of supplying (or being able to supply) the wine you were promised and presumably paid for.

Again, I reiterate my previous comments that the above statement (if correct) carries some hefty accusations and you'd want to be rather certain of them.

I suspect there's more to this story than you're willing to share on this forum (fair enough too).

I wish you luck pursuing the matter - let us know how you go!

[Diddy]

I have clarified the comment to make it clear that it is a matter for the police to establish whether there was no intention to deliver the wine when the money was taken or not.

Your edited post is better, but I still think you're jumping the gun without having taken some simple and reasonable steps to hopefully get the matter amicably resolved.

Diddy, I will try one more time but I really believe now I am being strung along. The fact is wine retailers who offer Bordeaux en premier are supposed to deliver the wine when it is shipped which in the case of 2010 was mid last year. If they answered my emails requesting an update I would be less p###ed off given we are talking a decent six cases.

Customer Service

Email customerservice@vintagecellars.com.au
Phone 1300 366 084, Monday to Friday 8:30am - 7pm (AEDT)
Fax 1300 662 224
Mail Vintage Cellars, P.O. Box 13329, Melbourne VIC 8010

[Panda 9D]

This post is not to be construed as legal advice of any sort

Diddy, are you the kind of person that refers to the next day as "today" as soon as it turns midnight? He paid for wine and didn't get it! He's pissed. He called them and was strung along… he's pissed. He has every right to be because it's likely that he will never get his wine, at best he will get a refund and vintages like that don't come around so often. The business sounds like it has behaved very poorly. He's pissed.

[Diddy]

This post is not to be construed as legal advice of any sort

Diddy, are you the kind of person that refers to the next day as "today" as soon as it turns midnight? He paid for wine and didn't get it! He's pissed. He called them and was strung along… he's pissed. He has every right to be because it's likely that he will never get his wine, at best he will get a refund and vintages like that don't come around so often. The business sounds like it has behaved very poorly. He's pissed.

He has every right to be pissed... I was just trying to understand how the situation had escalated to the point where criminal charges could be laid.

[Panda 9D]

I think this one is my bad. I have only read the edited versions where no mention of criminal charges have been mentioned. It seemed like your reaction was out of line with what the OP was saying.

But.. do you refer to the next day as 'today' after midnight? I acknowledge the next day at 6am unless I have slept.

[Diddy]

I think this one is my bad. I have only read the edited versions where no mention of criminal charges have been mentioned. It seemed like your reaction was out of line with what the OP was saying.

But.. do you refer to the next day as 'today' after midnight? I acknowledge the next day at 6am unless I have slept.

Probably depends on the context I suppose...

[rooman]

I think this one is my bad. I have only read the edited versions where no mention of criminal charges have been mentioned. It seemed like your reaction was out of line with what the OP was saying.

But.. do you refer to the next day as 'today' after midnight? I acknowledge the next day at 6am unless I have slept.

Panda

The confusion is my fault. On reflection today after talking with Diddy last night I decided it was best to delete some of the comments I posted during the evening and hence the confusion in the thread. Diddy has actually been very helpful but you understand my sentiment as I am still trying to track down my wine.

Mark

[rooman]

This post is not to be construed as legal advice of any sort

Diddy, are you the kind of person that refers to the next day as "today" as soon as it turns midnight? He paid for wine and didn't get it! He's pissed. He called them and was strung along… he's pissed. He has every right to be because it's likely that he will never get his wine, at best he will get a refund and vintages like that don't come around so often. The business sounds like it has behaved very poorly. He's pissed.

Thank you for the support. In my opinion though I don't order Latours and Lafite, the wines were well chosen over the various levels from second growths down to medoc and would not be available at those prices assuming I could source them from alternative retailers now that they are in the country. All up I am still waiting on six cases!

Mark

[TiggerK]

Persistence. Make yourself an endless annoyance to them until you get some firm answers. Turning up in person may help too. Sit-in!

Unacceptable situation, poor form VC.

Hoping to hear some good news from you when we catch up on Thursday!

[The fish]

Hey Rooman Best of luck getting your wine from them. With VC taking ownership I reckon that once your issue gets beyond 'local' management you will get the resolution that you're looking for.

If you've got a twitter handle I have found that it's a very good, quick way of getting issues resolved. i.e. '@Vintage_Cellars Can you help me with the non-delivery of my 2010 Bordeaux En Primeur at your Ultimo store?' They don't like the publication of issues but it works in their favour too if they resolve it because then you publicly say 'thankyou' .

I'm tempted not to post the following comments but I've been thinking a bit about the exchanges in this topic (no offence is intended to anyone...). Here are my thoughts on the forums and the way that we 'play' with eachother... Rooman's original post was, in my view, a legitimate query with valuable information about the lack of service and delivered product from a retailer and it was one that would be of interest to wine folk. Let's keep claims of 'fraud' and 'defamation' out of it - this is a place where information about the supply and quality of goods received is of a particular value to all of us. i.e Would you likely to buy EP from Ultimo VC if you are aware that another customer has issues with them? Lastly let's not forget that this place is kindly provided by Gavin and we want to keep him safe from any issues related to our postings. As my old boss would say 'Happy to discuss'.

Cheers
Matt

[rooman]

Persistence. Make yourself an endless annoyance to them until you get some firm answers. Turning up in person may help too. Sit-in!

Unacceptable situation, poor form VC.

Hoping to hear some good news from you when we catch up on Thursday!

Tigger

I am hopeful once I contact VC and make them aware of the problem, which I have not doubt they have never heard about, they will resolve it. It is such a nuisance however to have to phone head office and beg for wine to be delivered that should have been organised on time by the local management.

[Diddy]

I'm tempted not to post the following comments but I've been thinking a bit about the exchanges in this topic (no offence is intended to anyone...). Here are my thoughts on the forums and the way that we 'play' with eachother... Rooman's original post was, in my view, a legitimate query with valuable information about the lack of service and delivered product from a retailer and it was one that would be of interest to wine folk. Let's keep claims of 'fraud' and 'defamation' out of it - this is a place where information about the supply and quality of goods received is of a particular value to all of us. i.e Would you likely to buy EP from Ultimo VC if you are aware that another customer has issues with them? Lastly let's not forget that this place is kindly provided by Gavin and we want to keep him safe from any issues related to our postings. As my old boss would say 'Happy to discuss'.

In fairness to all, the thread as it appears now has changed considerably from what it originally started off as.

I don't think there was anything untoward about it all - just some robust discussion about the best way to salvage anything possible from a complicated and unfortunate situation.

[rooman]

I'm tempted not to post the following comments but I've been thinking a bit about the exchanges in this topic (no offence is intended to anyone...). Here are my thoughts on the forums and the way that we 'play' with eachother... Rooman's original post was, in my view, a legitimate query with valuable information about the lack of service and delivered product from a retailer and it was one that would be of interest to wine folk. Let's keep claims of 'fraud' and 'defamation' out of it - this is a place where information about the supply and quality of goods received is of a particular value to all of us. i.e Would you likely to buy EP from Ultimo VC if you are aware that another customer has issues with them? Lastly let's not forget that this place is kindly provided by Gavin and we want to keep him safe from any issues related to our postings. As my old boss would say 'Happy to discuss'.

In fairness to all, the thread as it appears now has changed considerably from what it originally started off as.

I don't think there was anything untoward about it all - just some robust discussion about the best way to salvage anything possible from a complicated and unfortunate situation.

Diddy

My apologies for removing some of the discussion above regarding laying criminal complaints but after considering some of your constructive comments I thought it was better deleted. I have however emailed customer service and am hopefully VC may be able to help me with this "problem".

Overall however my problem does highlight the danger of paying for stock that is not delivered for 2 years or more.

Mark

[Diddy]

Diddy

My apologies for removing some of the discussion above regarding laying criminal complaints but after considering some of your constructive comments I thought it was better deleted. I have however emailed customer service and am hopefully VC may be able to help me with this "problem".

Overall however my problem does highlight the danger of paying for stock that is not delivered for 2 years or more.

Mark

No apology required!

Knowing the additional background and context, I understand your frustration!

It was probably just the alarmist in me freaking out a bit...

I just hope you're able to get to the bottom of it!

[rooman]

Diddy, I will try one more time but I really believe now I am being strung along. The fact is wine retailers who offer Bordeaux en premier are supposed to deliver the wine when it is shipped which in the case of 2010 was mid last year. If they answered my emails requesting an update I would be less p###ed off given we are talking a decent six cases.

Customer Service

Email customerservice@vintagecellars.com.au
Phone 1300 366 084, Monday to Friday 8:30am - 7pm (AEDT)
Fax 1300 662 224
Mail Vintage Cellars, P.O. Box 13329, Melbourne VIC 8010

Diddy, in terms of updating the saga of the "missing" wine, I tried this option today and copied customer service on a follow up email requesting an update on the missing cases of wine due for delivery six months ago. It is fair to say the silence was resounding.

[Diddy]

I'd be trying here:-

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/A ... laint.page?

[rooman]

I'd be trying here:-

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/A ... laint.page?

Diddy thank you for this. I will have a read. I also meet with a supplier today in the industry to discuss the problem. Unfortunately I can not repeat anything he shared with me regarding the retailer in question. What really is disappointing is that having contacted Vintage Cellars, so far I have received absolutely no response, not even an acknowledgement that someone read my email and they will get back after investigating the complaint. I am sure if I walked into a Vintage Cellar store and walked out with 6 cases of wine they would be frantically calling the police.......

Mark

[Teisto]

I would be doing as someone else suggested getting on their Facebook and Twitter feeds ASAP.

They hate anything negative going on there and look to "resolve" things quicker so they don't lose face. They can turn it into a great Cust Service PR exercise

You are able to flog them if they don't respond and put that up there. Write it all very nicely of course so you are measured and courteous in your quest to find what is rightly owing to you.