After a few recommendations

[waistcoat]

Hi all, first post here (well, apart from my intro post in the appropriate section) and wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I've really gotten into pinot noir since a trip to Mornington last year, but am finding it can be a very hit and miss affair finding something I like when I go to Dan's. The last two recommendations from them have been particularly disappointing - Savaterre and Coldstream Hills. I found them both far too light for my taste. I like my pinot a bit gutsier, my favourites so far being from Paringa Estate, Montalto and Red Hill Estate. I was wondering if you guys could recommend anything along those lines to me? Thanks!

[Gavin Trott]

Hello

Is price an issue? If not, rteally recommend Ashton Hills 2010's, particularly the Reserve, but actually the Estate Pinot from 2010 is all class!

Anyone else weigh in?
.

[waistcoat]

Probably up to $30ish is what I'd spend without thinking too much about it for a pinot - any more than that and we're into special occasion/have to try territory.

Oh I forgot to ask in my initial post - I've seen some rave reviews of the By Farr/Farr Side/Farr Rising pinots, but after the disappointment I had with the Savaterre, I'm not willing to lay down $50+ unless it's in line with the style of pinot I like. Thoughts on those?

[dave vino]

So you went to MP liked the PN and then went and bought ones from Yarra Valley and Beechworth?

By gutsier do you mean fruit forward? or more bigger/velvety mouthfeel?

Maybe give these a try,

Stonier
http://www.stonier.com.au/our-wines/pin ... -noir.html

Kooyong Estate PN
http://www.portphillipestate.com.au/cms ... 8-134.phps

10X by Tractor
http://www.tenminutesbytractor.com.au/p ... Pinot-Noir

They all have a good progression of wines depending on your budget.

[Polymer]

Ten Minutes by Tractor 10x might be ok for the OP. Their higher end ones will probably be too light as they actually have good acid...

I actually think Tasmania has a lot of big gutsy Pinots (I'm not sure I've had anything but from there)....Maybe something from Josef Chromy?

[waistcoat]

Hi Dave,

Not quite. Did the trip to MP and took quite some time to get through everything I had bought there, then I bought the ones mentioned on recommendations from others just recently. By gutsier I just mean with more body and up front flavour - the Savaterre and CSH to be honest tasted watered down to me. It had me asking where the damn flavour was.

[odyssey]

Pinot around the $25 mark is a major hit-and miss (or more often miss-and-miss) affai, we've found and usually have to venture up to $40 to get something decent but Hoddles Creek from the Yarra is well reviewed by many.

[PaulG]

Not Mornington, but I'm sure you could find something amongst the excellent range at Whisson Lake (http://www.whissonlake.com/). They might be out of your price range, but I think they do some budget wines too. Drop Tom Munro a line (he sometimes posts on this forum) - he is a man who knows Pinot inside and out!

[Polymer]

Pinot around the $25 mark is a major hit-and miss (or more often miss-and-miss) affai, we've found and usually have to venture up to $40 to get something decent but Hoddles Creek from the Yarra is well reviewed by many.

I don't think that is the issue though...it isn't that he is finding misses but he wants a particular style so those are a miss for him..That particular style preference means nearly every high end Pinot will be a miss for him...

Some gutsy pinots would be out of Tasmania...like a Domaine A is a really big big pinot.....Yarra Yering makes a shiraz like Pinot..big fruit, vanilla...well made..

The OP may like some NZ Pinots as well...which will be higher in acid and more medium bodied but quite a few will be fruit forward...

[waistcoat]

Thanks for the advice guys, looks like I have a few things to try

[Michael R]

Hey Waistcoat

There's been some threads recently regarding difficulty in finding decent Pinot under $30.
Would agree that Tassie offers some bigger styles, certainly Domain A fits that bill, Stefano Lubiana another example, however they're $50-60.

As a generalisation, i would strongly reccommend also trying Central Otago. Typically quite robust Pinot, with a degree of minerality.
Again you wont find much under $30, but Amisfield in good vintages is worth a look, for less than $40.

Cheers
Michael

[Polymer]

I think he may like Central Otago...but they aren't really big Pinots (I guess that depends on your definition).

Australian Pinots are very much FULL FULL bodied wines...Central Otago is far more medium bodied....and if it isn't the acidity will make it feel so in comparison to most Aussie Pinots...They are relatively fruit forward which should be attractive to the OP.. (Marlborough even more so).

What I don't understand is the number of Aussies (I've heard this a lot) think Central Otago is like cordial..it isn't serious..they're fruit bombs..but ironically, they're far more "correct" than 90% of Australian Pinots...which for some really bad reason are made like a Shiraz. A lot Australians feel in order for a wine to be serious, it must be big. The whole idea behind what is a full bodied and medium bodied wine is completely skewed. That somehow because a wine has acidity and is appropriately medium bodied it is watery, can't be serious, not right...but the reality is, Pinot Noir SHOULD be more medium bodied, should have good acidity...and in the global market, Australian Pinot (with a few exceptions) are a bit of a non-selling joke.

This isn't to say you can't have a successful full bodied Pinot....or that you shouldn't like it..because certainly wine can be made in different styles and people will like different things and it is actually a GOOD thing that there are different styles out there and certainly there are very enjoyable examples of many different styles.....but for whatever reason when I hear people at shows, wineries, stores talk about how this particular (more proper) Pinot is not serious and this fruit bomb shiraz like Pinot is a true serious wine...It makes me laugh..and since I've just heard this recently at a show, it is stuck in my head .

There are a growing number of Australian winemakers that going against this trend in Australia..and when you talk with them they actually seem very proud of the fact that they're making Pinot the way they believe it should be made...which in a nutshell is higher acidity, medium bodied (in contrast to relatively low acidity and FULL FULL bodied you see commonly in Oz).

[limkeith]

Pimpernel from Yarra Valley and Myrtaceae from Mornington

Myrtaceae is really near Main Ridge Estate in Mornington and make affordable Pinot

Pimpernel made 2 different pinots from the famed 2010 vintage, cleverly naming them Masculine and Feminine

http://www.myrtaceae.com.au/home.html

http://www.pimpernelvineyards.com.au

[calm]

Stefano Lubiano is a pretty good pinot from my experiences

[waistcoat]

I think he may like Central Otago...but they aren't really big Pinots (I guess that depends on your definition).

Australian Pinots are very much FULL FULL bodied wines...Central Otago is far more medium bodied....and if it isn't the acidity will make it feel so in comparison to most Aussie Pinots...They are relatively fruit forward which should be attractive to the OP.. (Marlborough even more so).

What I don't understand is the number of Aussies (I've heard this a lot) think Central Otago is like cordial..it isn't serious..they're fruit bombs..but ironically, they're far more "correct" than 90% of Australian Pinots...which for some really bad reason are made like a Shiraz. A lot Australians feel in order for a wine to be serious, it must be big. The whole idea behind what is a full bodied and medium bodied wine is completely skewed. That somehow because a wine has acidity and is appropriately medium bodied it is watery, can't be serious, not right...but the reality is, Pinot Noir SHOULD be more medium bodied, should have good acidity...and in the global market, Australian Pinot (with a few exceptions) are a bit of a non-selling joke.

This isn't to say you can't have a successful full bodied Pinot....or that you shouldn't like it..because certainly wine can be made in different styles and people will like different things and it is actually a GOOD thing that there are different styles out there and certainly there are very enjoyable examples of many different styles.....but for whatever reason when I hear people at shows, wineries, stores talk about how this particular (more proper) Pinot is not serious and this fruit bomb shiraz like Pinot is a true serious wine...It makes me laugh..and since I've just heard this recently at a show, it is stuck in my head .

There are a growing number of Australian winemakers that going against this trend in Australia..and when you talk with them they actually seem very proud of the fact that they're making Pinot the way they believe it should be made...which in a nutshell is higher acidity, medium bodied (in contrast to relatively low acidity and FULL FULL bodied you see commonly in Oz).

Hi Polymer, thanks for that rundown. I'll definitely give the Central Otago a try now that I understand things a bit better. Until my trip to MP, I pretty much only drank shiraz and to a lesser extent cab sav since my father introduced me to wine a number of years ago. I was interested by the thread "which wine changed everything for you", because trying cool climate stuff on that trip was what changed it for me and really opened me up to a new world of possibility - before then I didn't even drink whites. Having said that, even though I enjoy pinot now my taste at the moment is still influenced by my formative wine drinking years, so I don't yet have the palate to enjoy reds without a decent amount of 'punch' to them.

[via collins]

and harking back to your initial question, I have found By Farr a very consistent label. I actually get the variations a bit mixed up, but I know for a fac that the 08 Farr Rising pinot noir I opened this year was magnificent. Tons of heft, while still maintaining the delicacy of a good PN.

don't recall what it cost, but wasn't far north of $30 - very happy with the QPR indeed.

[Polymer]

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest what you're drinking is not right...I think people should drink whatever it is they like...I think the subject of Australian Pinot just hits me because I see so many Aussies basically rip on other styles of Pinot when in fact, they're the ones on the extreme end.

[Panda 9D]

Are the cheaper but reliable Californian Pinots available in Australia? Calera, ABC etc? The lower end should be around $30 and I think they might have what you're looking for.

[Mahmoud Ali]

I think he may like Central Otago...but they aren't really big Pinots (I guess that depends on your definition).

Australian Pinots are very much FULL FULL bodied wines...Central Otago is far more medium bodied....and if it isn't the acidity will make it feel so in comparison to most Aussie Pinots...They are relatively fruit forward which should be attractive to the OP.. (Marlborough even more so).

What I don't understand is the number of Aussies (I've heard this a lot) think Central Otago is like cordial..it isn't serious..they're fruit bombs..but ironically, they're far more "correct" than 90% of Australian Pinots...which for some really bad reason are made like a Shiraz. A lot Australians feel in order for a wine to be serious, it must be big. The whole idea behind what is a full bodied and medium bodied wine is completely skewed. That somehow because a wine has acidity and is appropriately medium bodied it is watery, can't be serious, not right...but the reality is, Pinot Noir SHOULD be more medium bodied, should have good acidity...and in the global market, Australian Pinot (with a few exceptions) are a bit of a non-selling joke.

This isn't to say you can't have a successful full bodied Pinot....or that you shouldn't like it..because certainly wine can be made in different styles and people will like different things and it is actually a GOOD thing that there are different styles out there and certainly there are very enjoyable examples of many different styles.....but for whatever reason when I hear people at shows, wineries, stores talk about how this particular (more proper) Pinot is not serious and this fruit bomb shiraz like Pinot is a true serious wine...It makes me laugh..and since I've just heard this recently at a show, it is stuck in my head .

There are a growing number of Australian winemakers that going against this trend in Australia..and when you talk with them they actually seem very proud of the fact that they're making Pinot the way they believe it should be made...which in a nutshell is higher acidity, medium bodied (in contrast to relatively low acidity and FULL FULL bodied you see commonly in Oz).

Spot on in your comments.

When discussing the relative merits and preferences of big, robust wines versus medium-bodied wines just think of it like saying chicken and fish aren't really serious meats because they're "bland" compared to lamb and beef. There are those who only want to drink full-bodied wines and all power to them, we can't force them to like chicken and seafood.

Cheers..............................Mahmoud

[Mark Carrington]

Kooyong is top notch. A Meres '08 was excellent, last week. Yet to have a poor bottle (including their Chard) from this producer. There are reports of considerable vintage verification. Price maybe an issue, though.
(Regretfully, Lubiano is unavailable over here).

[daz]

Did I miss it? Or has anyone mentioned merlot? Thanks for the mentions of grenache. I've not had a varietal of it for some time and it can be very enjoyable as such, does work very well in red blends. I had a couple of bottles of the first vintage of Teusner Dog Strangler mouverdre and thought it a great introduction to the variety, have a bottle of the inaugaral FG Astral Mourvedre for about ten years from now - but I've never tasted it. The FG shiraz is reportedly even better but $50+, in this case $100+ wines, are rare inclusions in my diminishing collection of $40+ wines. I won't be around in 30 years hence, fully intend to drink my one bottle of Grange, a 1996 before I become worm food. My one remaining bottle of Wynns John Riddoch 1998 is also likely to be consumed during my pre-death wake. But back to the Barossa, Turkey Flat produces very good/excellent wines. Kym Teusner, well-supported by b-i-l Michael, has created a new paradigm for Barossa wines, or at least developed a fresh approach to delivering the best the region can offer.

[Scotty vino]

Had a 2011 Ashton hills. Great on the nose. Disappointing finish indeed.
However, the 2010 grosset Pinot noir is a belter. Grabbed one from the cellar door.