Chateau Chunder: A Wine Revolution

[damonpeyo]

On ABC 8.30pm tonight:

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/programs/chateauchunder.htm

[rens]

Yes, saw the add and will be tuning in

[Mahmoud Ali]

I hope the documentary is better than the write-up as the latter is full of errors and misrepresentations.

Australia did not pioneer the idea of selling wine by grape variety. Germany, Austria and Alsace in France have always used varietal labels and Californian wine makers used varietal labelling in the 60s and 70s, if not earlier. I seriously doubt that Australia "invented" blind tasting. The "Judgement of Paris", the blind tasting between top wines of California and France was conducted in 1976 by Steven Spurrier and I don't recall reading anything about event where blind tasting was considered revolutionary or new, and that was long before the Australia's marketing foray into the international market.

Colourful labels and "critter" labels are one thing but I hope they discuss Wolf Blass who successfully marketed his Yellow and Black label Cabs and Cab/Shiraz long before Robert Parker, or anybody else for that matter, popularized shiraz.

I could go on.

Cheers........................Mahmoud.

[damonpeyo]

interesting Mahmoud...

It was somewhat mixed interesting documentary.

saw this news just before I watched the doco...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/nation ... 6504887491

[daz]

Damn, forgot it was on and missed it.

[Polymer]

interesting Mahmoud...

It was somewhat mixed interesting documentary.

saw this news just before I watched the doco...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/nation ... 6504887491

Pretty delusional from Gago considering the rest of their mid level line does poorly in most overseas markets. He's also not reflecting every other winemaker which is having a hard time in that higher mid range..so 40+. Talked to quite a few distributors and retailers that are struggling in that range where Australian Shiraz was once very much in demand. The low end is still good and unique wines like Grange or HoG will still do well...their appeal is different.

It isn't that fruit bombs aren't popular..they have mass appeal..but when times are tougher, people are cutting back what they drink or they find other alternatives that offer that same thing for less. It doesn't help that someone just getting into wine that actually likes fruit bombs keeps reading how they shouldn't, etc... Wine Geeks tend to not want to spend money on fruit bombs and the wine that wine geeks might like, doesn't actually get exported.

You only have to take a look at the clearance bins to see that there is a lot of pretty good Australian stuff that just isn't selling overseas....

[redstuff]

If you missed it, catch it on abc iview:
http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/27837

[Mahmoud Ali]

If you missed it, catch it on abc iview:
http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/27837

I tried but "Due to copyright reasons this video program is available for download by people located in Australia only. If you are not located in Australia, you are not authorised to view this video."

Darn......................Mahmoud

[GRB]

Anyone else spot the forumite sitting in on the Len Evans tutorial?

[dave vino]

Dave Brookes?

[TiggerK]

Yeah just finished watching it, saw Mr B looking smug as always, think he was Len Evans dux that year so I'll forgive him this time.

Enjoyed it myself, OK a few things should have been mentioned or clarified, but overall quite fun and well worth watching.

I assume that Oz Clarke 3.99 blackcurrant story was true? Nice work if so.
Peter Gago is so smarmy. Bit creepy actually. Respect though, FWIW.
Love Tyrrells, always have. Truly fair dinkum.

Cheers!

[Waiters Friend]

G'day

I agree with the lack of detail and even accuracy pointed out in some of the above posts. The entire piece was light-weight / hearted, entertaining, and marketing-centric. However, if it brings a little of the obvious history, and provokes a little more interest in wine in the average 'goon-bag' consumer, then I think it is worthwhile. It will slightly raise the average level of wine-consciousness.

[damonpeyo]

Chunder could be better if it was into some mini series, with breaks downs and more detail into the Aussie wine history. Surprised that it didn't cover much of the development of the barrossa?

[Polymer]

I thought it was enjoyable to watch..maybe not all factually correct but entertaining and informative.

I'm actually glad it didn't go into too much detail about any one region as the show was only an hour...

[dan_smee]

Just watched - anyone else think Bruce Tyrrell is the most laid back, approachable and realistic of the prominent winemakers in Aus? Met him a few times at the cellar door, and he is always good for a yarn, and spends a lot of time meeting customers new and old. Hell, I've seen him give a deeply personalised service to a couple who tasted their way through the old winery range, ended up buying 6 bottles of OW Traminer, not intersted in the expensive stuff, and definately not a huge sale for Tyrrell's, but the guy just genuinely wanted to talk to them and help them experience his wines.

[Polymer]

I think Bruce Tyrrell is great...really nice guy and is a real joy to talk to..

The only thing I think is weird is...even though he probably makes the best Semillon on the planet...he still doesn't pronounce it properly..haha..

[dan_smee]

I think Bruce Tyrrell is great...really nice guy and is a real joy to talk to..

The only thing I think is weird is...even though he probably makes the best Semillon on the planet 4 best semillon's on the planet...he still doesn't pronounce it properly..haha..

I fixed the quote for you Year after year, Vat 1, Belford, HVD, and now Johnno's are just ridiculously good. I'd say Stevens too, but I think Lovedale, Braemore, Alexander Munro have it covered. That little bit of residual sweetness is just... off-putting. Either go full on off-dry (6 degrees sem), or keep to the bone-dry formula.

[WineRick]

Entertaining, but a little 'fluffy'. Brought back some lovely memories of the 'revolution' that really occurred between about 1967/8 and 1977/8.
The Aussie wine industry as we know it now is really only about 50 years old, as at, say, 1965, the industry was 93 - 94% fortified, with the Barossa in the box seat with Orlando, Seppelts, Penfolds, Yalumba et al producing a large proportion of Australia's output. (Important to note that Grenache, Shiraz and Mourvedre were the prominent fortified varieties, with Cabernet and Riesling, with Shiraz, being the main table wine varieties.) Guenter Prass (Orlando) and John Vickery (Burings) in particular were monumental in the quality shift in dry whites, enjoying new refrigeration technology for both dry whites but more importantly, the sparkling (pearl) wines which were all the rage then (today, think moscato!) Sadly, these two makers were not mentioned.
Australia already had a few great, natural winemakers in addition to Max Schubert, including John Daveron (Penfolds), Maurice O'Shea and Colin Preece, not forgetting Jack Mann, Karl Stockhausen, and apologies to those I've missed. I'm only talking table wines here.
A mini - red wine boom in the late '60's was countered by a white wine promotion by the Aust. Wine & Brandy Corp., which really took off, buggering red wine sales but launching Riesling (known in those days as 'Rhine' Riesling ). Then a young Hardy's winemaker left a little residual sugar in the 1975 Siegersdorf Riesling, ( won many trophies that year, to be disqualified at Adelaide !) and by 1978 every Riesling tasted the same, often blighted by un-balanced levels of residual sweetness.
I hasten to add that Aussie wines, at this stage, were far superior to a lot of the crap from France and Italy that was crowding English wine shops; it's just that the younger English writers weren't around. I was in England/Europe in '76, on the smell of an oily rag - best value was Bulgarian Rieslings and Rhone reds!
When the new generation of English wine writers, in the mid '80's, followed then by American / European writers (Parker boom - late '90's), all of a sudden Australia made great wine! No, we had great table wine, but if it wasn't for Len Evans we would probably would be following other regions now. It's no coincidence that Len encouraged/stimulated people like James Halliday, Murray Tyrell, Brian Croser, the Hill-Smiths, and many more. With newer regions, Henty, Southern Highlands, Margaret River, and rejuvenation of Yarra, Geelong and, yes, the Hunter, Barossa
and Clare, we have a lot of vinous ammunition.
I will never forget a tasting of 25 vintages of Barossa 'Rhine' Riesling in 1978, including the very first '53 vintage. We had great wines then - admittedly few and far between - but with the great Preece and O'Shea reds, we had already formed a great foundation.

[Polymer]

I think Bruce Tyrrell is great...really nice guy and is a real joy to talk to..

The only thing I think is weird is...even though he probably makes the best Semillon on the planet 4 best semillon's on the planet...he still doesn't pronounce it properly..haha..

I fixed the quote for you Year after year, Vat 1, Belford, HVD, and now Johnno's are just ridiculously good. I'd say Stevens too, but I think Lovedale, Braemore, Alexander Munro have it covered. That little bit of residual sweetness is just... off-putting. Either go full on off-dry (6 degrees sem), or keep to the bone-dry formula.

I actually think Meerea Park Terracotta is better than the Alexander Munro in most years....but yes, after VAT 1, there are a lot of other good semillons out there...

I actually don't mind some RS...I think most Aussies have it in their head that RS means a wine is not serious but that is definitely not the case (they also (wrongly) have it in their mind Pinot Noir needs to be big like a Shiraz to be serious but that's a different subject).

[Mahmoud Ali]

I'm really enjoying these posts. Good to see Len Evans mentioned. He was the first to introduce British writers to some of the early marvels of Australian winemaking.

Mahmoud.

[dan_smee]

I think Bruce Tyrrell is great...really nice guy and is a real joy to talk to..

The only thing I think is weird is...even though he probably makes the best Semillon on the planet 4 best semillon's on the planet...he still doesn't pronounce it properly..haha..

I fixed the quote for you Year after year, Vat 1, Belford, HVD, and now Johnno's are just ridiculously good. I'd say Stevens too, but I think Lovedale, Braemore, Alexander Munro have it covered. That little bit of residual sweetness is just... off-putting. Either go full on off-dry (6 degrees sem), or keep to the bone-dry formula.

I actually think Meerea Park Terracotta is better than the Alexander Munro in most years....but yes, after VAT 1, there are a lot of other good semillons out there...

I actually don't mind some RS...I think most Aussies have it in their head that RS means a wine is not serious but that is definitely not the case (they also (wrongly) have it in their mind Pinot Noir needs to be big like a Shiraz to be serious but that's a different subject).

Agree re RS, but mostly in the Riesling context. Some sem's pull it off, but Steven's for me just misses the mark (the 07, from a wonderful year, just lacked the focus and intensity of Belford and HVD, and that is what i put it down to - could be wrong though!).

Terracotta is a lovely wine. I definately should have included it up there, though I don't find it in too many places. Have 1 bottle of 05 left, dying to try the 06. A Munro 06 was a classic.

[Polymer]

Agree re RS, but mostly in the Riesling context. Some sem's pull it off, but Steven's for me just misses the mark (the 07, from a wonderful year, just lacked the focus and intensity of Belford and HVD, and that is what i put it down to - could be wrong though!).

Terracotta is a lovely wine. I definately should have included it up there, though I don't find it in too many places. Have 1 bottle of 05 left, dying to try the 06. A Munro 06 was a classic.

If it has enough acid I'm ok w/ a bit of RS in a semillon..although granted, I don't know if I've actually had an aged Semillon that had some. We're really splitting hairs here though, I think all of their higher end stuff, including the Stevens, is pretty good...it is just a matter of style preference.

When they first came out, I thought the AM 2006 was better..but for whatever reason, the acid on the AM 2006 has faded away and I'm not sure that's what I want. From the time I thought it was great to the time I wasn't as happy was only a year..so I'm not sure what is going on...The Terracotta however, has actually gotten better and still has a healthy amount of acid....I think it is safe to say though that Meerea Park makes some great Semillon on their higher end.

[dan_smee]

Agree re RS, but mostly in the Riesling context. Some sem's pull it off, but Steven's for me just misses the mark (the 07, from a wonderful year, just lacked the focus and intensity of Belford and HVD, and that is what i put it down to - could be wrong though!).

Terracotta is a lovely wine. I definately should have included it up there, though I don't find it in too many places. Have 1 bottle of 05 left, dying to try the 06. A Munro 06 was a classic.

If it has enough acid I'm ok w/ a bit of RS in a semillon..although granted, I don't know if I've actually had an aged Semillon that had some. We're really splitting hairs here though, I think all of their higher end stuff, including the Stevens, is pretty good...it is just a matter of style preference.

When they first came out, I thought the AM 2006 was better..but for whatever reason, the acid on the AM 2006 has faded away and I'm not sure that's what I want. From the time I thought it was great to the time I wasn't as happy was only a year..so I'm not sure what is going on...The Terracotta however, has actually gotten better and still has a healthy amount of acid....I think it is safe to say though that Meerea Park makes some great Semillon on their higher end.

Completely agree.

I am excited to see what some of the McLeish Estate stuff looks like in a few years - really impressed with their '11.

I was a big fan of Gundog's 11 as well (Hunter's is top draw, Off-Dry is a great expression of the style, and the Wild's is one example of RS done very will in Sem), but the 12's weren't quite there.

[Peter Schlesinger]

Also agree that Bruce Tyrrell is a top bloke and a champion of Australian wine. His sister Ann shouldn't be forgotten too. Just watched this feature and hooked back into those lovely long passed times when you could buy Grange from Farmer Bros at Manuka at under $10 a bottle - they actually had a pallet of it on the footpath outside the shop without an armed guard standing over it. Don't drink much semillon or chardonnay these days but I do have fond memories of Lindeman 00 bottlings and early Tyrrells Vat 1s and 47s. Tasted the 55 Grange on two occasions at Canberra Wine and Food Club functions but sadly don't have the palate memory to recall the experiences. The proposition of terrior being the path to the restoration of Australia's reputation as a producer of quality wines would appear to bode well for the independants.

[n4sir]

Entertaining, but a little 'fluffy'. Brought back some lovely memories of the 'revolution' that really occurred between about 1967/8 and 1977/8.

That's pretty much what I thought of it - a lightweight fluff piece/story for those in the industry to feel good about, and a bit of (occasionally accurate) history for the wine novice.

That said, the way they barely touched on the recent problems of the wine glut and the impact of corporate dominance, they would have been better off not bringing up the topics at all. Not that I was expecting a program with Monty Python cartoons and a voice over from Andrew Hansen of the Chaser to be deadly serious...

Cheers,
Ian