Which wine do you like with Thai Food?

[Jay]

Hi,

My friend have plan to open Thai restaurant around Ringwood, Melbourne.
They ask me about recommend wine list for Thai food.

We think about to have 15 wines (include sparkling) is maximum for wine list and the price should be 15 - 40$


So, to be like a survey from wine lover in here, could you please recommend and advise us.

When did you have Thai food,
1. which grape variety is/are your prefer ( may be match with food style ( Curry, Stir fry, Deep fried entree', etc )
I've read many book, they recommend gewürztraminer as well, but I can't see much in cellar, so I never test it.


2. Any specific winery/variety/year is the most you love for Thai food?


3. Any comment or any suggestion are welcomed.


Thank you
Jay

[Gary W]

Best advice is to read this and improvise on it. Longrain do it just about better than anyone.
http://www.longrain.com.au/wine_SYD.htm

I tend to order Alsatian wines there.
GW

[camw]

I'd go with a lineup along these lines for the price range.

Sparkling
--

Clover Hill Sparkling
Wirra Wirra Mrs Wigley Moscato
Seppelt Original Sparkling Shiraz

White
--

Bellarmine Off-Dry Riesling
Max Ferd Richter Estate Riesling
Thomas Braemore Semillon
Salomon Wieden Gruner Veltliner
Hoddles Creek Chardonnay
Hugel Gewurztraminer

Rose
--
Charles Melton Rose of Virginia

Red
--
Mont-Redon Cotes du Rhone
Spinifex Papillon
Clonakilla Hilltops Shiraz
Woodlands Cabernet Merlot


Sweet (if needed)
--
Noble One

[Grant]

Cam

Thats a cracking wine list, but how many of those could you get onto a restaurant list at <$40 (depending on mark up of course but generally at least 200%)?

Cheers

[camw]

Cam

Thats a cracking wine list, but how many of those could you get onto a restaurant list at <$40 (depending on mark up of course but generally at least 200%)?

Cheers

I guess it depends on what kind of deal they can get with whatever volume they plan to move but if they are buying by the case at retail, at least half are under the $20 mark. I also wasn't sure if "the price should be 15 - 40$ " meant the purchase cost or the list cost.

Maybe the list is a bit ambitious, but it is the style of list I'd love more restaurants around me to offer.

[griff]

I think cam's list is at the mid to upper range. I think you need a low priced wine in each category for cheapskates like me

I would add:

Hoddles pinot just because it is just as good as the chardonnay despite being a higher price

Sparkling
Stephen John Blanc de Blanc

White
Peter Lehmann Semillon
EDIT: you probably need a SB cos some like it - Maybe the Giesen

Rose
Moondah Brook Rose

Red
Debortoli windy peak pinot and the sangiovese (in fact the entire range or most in the Sero range)


Hmmm...cheap wines are hard to recommend!

cheers

Carl

[Gary W]

A lot of wineries and importers will give you a VERY generous pouring allowance on certain wines. This was one of the reasons you used to (and maybe still do) see Petaluma Riesling on just about every list...it was sold into restaurants below retailer cost.
GW

[tos]

Cam's list is excellent - i'd be very happy if my local Thai had a list half as good as that!

Riesling is the wine i drink most often with Thai. A forward style from the Clare such as the 07 Wolf Blass Gold or Petaluma work better than the more minerally Eden Valley wines. Loosen's Dr L is a relatively inexpensive German riesling around the $20 mark retail that works with many Thai dishes. Should suit the wine geek + punter equally well.

An unoaked/only sees old oak GSM (eg Teusner) would also be a good red.

[Red Bigot]

That's easy, for those that prefer a red, sparkling shiraz or shiraz-durif and most Australian Shiraz with fruit sweetness and not ovely-oaked or too tannic. Some of the leaner, cooler-climate "Syrah" don't go as well. Also Durif does a good job.

Some of my Monday tasting group regularly go to Sukothai for dinner after the tasting ans we always drink red (except for 1-two of the partners who join in for dinner) and we mostly drink shiraz or durif, although the occasional grenache or blend or cabernet/blend sneaks in too, with mixed results for the cabernets. Pinot seldom features, but could go with a few dishes.

We mostly drink shiraz or sparkling shiraz when we are cooking Thai at home. We tried Rutherglen Estate Durif 2005 recently, it works pretty well too.

When we go to Thailand (pretty well every year) we always pack as much good shiraz as we can carry to drink with our Thai friends.

Australian Shiraz does an amazing job with authentic Thai food, the marketing people should be flogging as much as they can along these lines in Thailand.

If you are in Sydney, go to Arun Thai, ask to have a look at the cellar, they have a big range of reds as well as whites and the food is very authentic and not pretentious.

If you want to see quite a few not to pick, look here: http://www.winewise.net.au/article_3.html

[GravyMaker]

Was wondering when we might see the bigoted point of view

Right on cue

[Red Bigot]

Was wondering when we might see the bigoted point of view

Right on cue

I would hate to disappoint you all.

I have strong Thai support, well at least from the Thai people I know.

When we eat at our local Thai friends' place, all the wine is red, with whisky on ice instead for one person.

Our friends in BKK installed an air-conditioner in their dining/living area, but it is only turned on when they are having red wine. It gets a good workout when we visit.

At other times in Thailand where there is no air-con, Singha is the drink of choice.

Nearly forgot, last night I cooked Gai Pad Bai Grapow:
http://redbigot.info/Recipes/GaiPadGaprao.htm and we drank Castagna Genesis Syrah 2001, it went very nicely, though I think this vintage is peaking early and personally I wouldn't leave it much longer.

I don't have the baby eggplants, but I might make this one tonight:
http://www.simply-thai.com/thai-food-re ... eng-pa.htm and finish the rest of the Castagna and move on to another nice shiraz.

I did make it, seriously hot stuff, it's good enough to make it to my Hot'n Spicy Recipe page, with my adjustments: http://redbigot.info/Recipes/GaengPar.htm

[griff]

Just thought of a few more.

The Villa Wolf pinot gris and riesling are excellent in the $15-20 range which would be medium again. And as for the low range the Tahbilk marsanne would be a starter for sure.

cheers

Carl

[Jay]

Wow....... thank you for all comment,
I'm still reading.


For the price, I mean retail price from cellar, Dan's Murphy, etc.
and I think the mark up should not too much, may be with 30$ retail, we'll sell as 40$.


I'll keep reading your post and your links.


Thank again.

[monghead]

Hi Jay,

Generally drink beer with Thai, so I hope a good beer list is included...

As to the wines, I generally like riesling or semillon with the spicy/sour stuff.

I noticed that almost all the wines listed thus far are interesting, dry whites. I must warn you however, there is a sizeable market out there (like my wife and her family), who love the sweeter whites with thai. Stuff like late harvest gerwurt/riesling... Not my cup of tea, but I guess running a business, you have to cater for the masses...

Cheers,

Monghead

[griff]

Hi Jay,

Generally drink beer with Thai, so I hope a good beer list is included...

As to the wines, I generally like riesling or semillon with the spicy/sour stuff.

I noticed that almost all the wines listed thus far are interesting, dry whites. I must warn you however, there is a sizeable market out there (like my wife and her family), who love the sweeter whites with thai. Stuff like late harvest gerwurt/riesling... Not my cup of tea, but I guess running a business, you have to cater for the masses...

Cheers,

Monghead

On that note. The Rockford white fronti is a great buy as is the Grant Burge at about the same price but a little more well-known

cheers

Carl

[mattECN]

I've had these at our local Thai in recent times and these go great with the food and fit in the price range:

Ninth Island Pinot Noir
Ninth Island Sauvignon Blanc
Vasse Felix Cabernet Merlot

[dazza1968]

Rockford Alicante Bouche goes very well with spicy Thai food and thorn Clarke have a rose made with (i think) Nebbiollo Grapes and thats a ripper both 13 to 17 Bucks roughly

[Red Bigot]

Rockford Alicante Bouchet goes very well with spicy Thai food

Sorry dazza, I'd have to be desperate, can't imagine being that desperate actually, I think the Rockford Alicante is an abomination at the best of times, starting from the plastic stopper.

[Dave Dewhurst]

I noticed that almost all the wines listed thus far are interesting, dry whites. I must warn you however, there is a sizeable market out there (like my wife and her family), who love the sweeter whites with thai. Stuff like late harvest gerwurt/riesling... Not my cup of tea, but I guess running a business, you have to cater for the masses...

Cheers,

Monghead

Just following on from camw's note above, the Bellarmine off dry is great and even their Auslese is not horrendously sweet either. These wines are an absolute bargain for $15 a shot from CD too. No affiliation etc, just very impressed with a relative newcomer!

Cheers

Dave

[Jay60A]

That's easy, for those that prefer a red, sparkling shiraz or shiraz-durif and most Australian Shiraz with fruit sweetness and not ovely-oaked or too tannic. Some of the leaner, cooler-climate "Syrah" don't go as well. Also Durif does a good job.

Some of my Monday tasting group regularly go to Sukothai for dinner after the tasting ans we always drink red (except for 1-two of the partners who join in for dinner) and we mostly drink shiraz or durif, although the occasional grenache or blend or cabernet/blend sneaks in too, with mixed results for the cabernets. Pinot seldom features, but could go with a few dishes.

We mostly drink shiraz or sparkling shiraz when we are cooking Thai at home. We tried Rutherglen Estate Durif 2005 recently, it works pretty well too.

When we go to Thailand (pretty well every year) we always pack as much good shiraz as we can carry to drink with our Thai friends.

Australian Shiraz does an amazing job with authentic Thai food, the marketing people should be flogging as much as they can along these lines in Thailand.

If you are in Sydney, go to Arun Thai, ask to have a look at the cellar, they have a big range of reds as well as whites and the food is very authentic and not pretentious.

If you want to see quite a few not to pick, look here: http://www.winewise.net.au/article_3.html

Have to agree with the comments on Shiraz with Thai. Agree has to have fruit-driven sweetness and be be young, not complex, for me. Cabernet that actually tastes like Cabernet does not work although some of the McLaren Vale stuff (Ashmead, RSW) might work well I suspect.

I have yet to find any wine that really works with Indian.

Jay.

[Nayan]

I have yet to find any wine that really works with Indian.

Jay.

The 2001 RBJ Theologicum was an excellent match to a meal at Jasmin last year (the 02 is less successful as the wine is hotter than the food ).

The other one that has sung is the Mount Surmon Sparkling Nebbiolo. Try it, you might like it...

(no connection etc. etc.)

[Red Bigot]

Have to agree with the comments on Shiraz with Thai. Agree has to have fruit-driven sweetness and be be young, not complex, for me. Cabernet that actually tastes like Cabernet does not work although some of the McLaren Vale stuff (Ashmead, RSW) might work well I suspect.

Jay.

Jay, Ashmead is from the Barossa and RSW is a Shiraz.

Even McLarenVale and Barossa are making better, more varietally correct Cabernets these days, the flavour profile and tannin structure doesn't go with a lot of Thai food. The cheaper, less structured cabernets and cab blends will sometimes work, but they usually aren't a great drink.

With Indian food (again a huge range of styles and flavours), a nice GSM or sparkling red often works, but the Mt Surmon Sparkling Nebbiolo didn't impress me on a visit to the winery a year ago, maybe it's a new batch.

[river]

Richmond Grove Watervale Riesling

Leo Buring Eden or Caire Valley Rielsling

Both are cheap and go really well with Thai and are good performers year in year out.

[Jay60A]

Have to agree with the comments on Shiraz with Thai. Agree has to have fruit-driven sweetness and be be young, not complex, for me. Cabernet that actually tastes like Cabernet does not work although some of the McLaren Vale stuff (Ashmead, RSW) might work well I suspect.

Jay.

Jay, Ashmead is from the Barossa and RSW is a Shiraz.

Even McLarenVale and Barossa are making better, more varietally correct Cabernets these days, the flavour profile and tannin structure doesn't go with a lot of Thai food. The cheaper, less structured cabernets and cab blends will sometimes work, but they usually aren't a great drink.

With Indian food (again a huge range of styles and flavours), a nice GSM or sparkling red often works, but the Mt Surmon Sparkling Nebbiolo didn't impress me on a visit to the winery a year ago, maybe it's a new batch.

Picky ... picky. Who need facts when you have opinions anyway ... it's what happens when you post rapidly from work. Angelus/Bellringer is the Wirra Wirra cab. But yes, the flavour profile of varietal Cabernet does not seem to work for me with Thai. Maybe the Serafino Cabernet 2002 or Rosemount Traditional 2001 which were nice quaffs might work but I drank all mine way back.

Suspect riesling depends on the dish? For me, works well with thai salads with lots of lime but gets rather overwhelmed by anything really spicy? Can't see it with a Thai curry or some of the authentic thai food. (I worked in Bangkok a year and SE Asia for yonks ... nightmare working in Thailand there but a good social life shall we say!)

Sounds like you need a Thai off-line to sort this out. At least it would be cheap as there's no point/need to go over $20 a bottle I suspect.

Good topic btw.

Jay

[Nayan]

With Indian food (again a huge range of styles and flavours), a nice GSM or sparkling red often works, but the Mt Surmon Sparkling Nebbiolo didn't impress me on a visit to the winery a year ago, maybe it's a new batch.

With respect Brian (and I'm pretty sure we've had this exchange before), while the Mt Surmon Sparkling Neb may not have impressed you at cellar door, you didn't try it with any Indian food did you?

Trust me, the flavours really work well with North Indian style dishes (and being a chef, winemaker and an Indian I kind of know what I'm talking about...)

[Red Bigot]

With Indian food (again a huge range of styles and flavours), a nice GSM or sparkling red often works, but the Mt Surmon Sparkling Nebbiolo didn't impress me on a visit to the winery a year ago, maybe it's a new batch.

With respect Brian (and I'm pretty sure we've had this exchange before), while the Mt Surmon Sparkling Neb may not have impressed you at cellar door, you didn't try it with any Indian food did you?

Trust me, the flavours really work well with North Indian style dishes (and being a chef, winemaker and an Indian I kind of know what I'm talking about...)

Ah, the North Indian palate! I'll have to take your word for it, I still haven't lived down taking TORB to Mt Surmon on the strength of the excellent Reserve Nebbiolo 2003, there was none of that left and two of the other reds had obvious wine-making faults and frankly I wanted to rinse my mouth after the sparkling nebb, however they didn't seem to have any North Indian curry on hand! Unfortunately I don't remember if it was the 2004 vintage they currently have on sale but the still nebb we tried a year ago was the currently on sale 2004, the bottle we tried was rank with EA.

BTW, not trying to "have a go" at you (or any other poster) in any way, but I've learnt over the years that being an acknowledged expert in a particular area does not automatically mean that your expertise translates for another person in matters where personal taste is paramount.

Thus I'm happy to take any sort jibe about my preference for Shiraz with Thai, it works for me (and quite a few people I know), but I know a lot of others will probably find it doesn't work for them. Anyone who follows my wine recommendations needs to understand a bit about my personal preferences and they are obviously not a match for a lot of people. Given the 500-700 unique visitors per day to my site (and discounting curious ITB visitors) there is obviously a very small subset of the wine-drinking population that do find my preferences in wine somewhat useful.

Must be time we visited the other close by Indian restaurant, I think it is Northern oriented, our usual one is mostly Southern style.

[Red Bigot]

Someone has even more time to waste than me!

[DJ]

Rockford Alicante Bouchet goes very well with spicy Thai food

Sorry dazza, I'd have to be desperate, can't imagine being that desperate actually, I think the Rockford Alicante is an abomination at the best of times, starting from the plastic stopper.

Been in screwcap for last 2 vintages Yep a Rockford in screwcap - how the hell do we get the whole range in screwcap / crown seal

I really like it especially at about 10% alc

[Red Bigot]

Rockford Alicante Bouchet goes very well with spicy Thai food

Sorry dazza, I'd have to be desperate, can't imagine being that desperate actually, I think the Rockford Alicante is an abomination at the best of times, starting from the plastic stopper.

Been in screwcap for last 2 vintages Yep a Rockford in screwcap - how the hell do we get the whole range in screwcap / crown seal

I really like it especially at about 10% alc

Wonders will never cease... But is it still sickly sweet?

[platinum]

Jim Barry Lavender Hill