Who likes Grange?

Ratcatcher · Post by **Ratcatcher** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:04 pm

You're dead right Platinum.

we've got some of our leading bottle shops who sit on premium wines at ridiculously high prices and as you say poor vintages.

Every 4 years they have a massive wine sale and reduce the prices by about 40% but by then the wines have been stored standing up for 4 years under hot shop lights. There's no way I'd touch them.

The one time I did it was oxidised so I took it straight back for a refund.

But it begs the question. Why let this stuff sit on your shelves for 4-5 years and then sell it out at bargain basement prices when it has probably gone off? Why not move it at a reasonable price in the first 6-12 months?

The 2 leading Hobart retailers have had Seppelts Benno for sale at $55 - $59 since release and I reckon the same bottles are still on the shelves 12 months later.

Roscoe · Post by **Roscoe** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:27 pm

Ratcatcher wrote:If all of a sudden Max Schubert returned to Earth and launched a takeover bid for Penfolds and assumed control and reduced Grange's price to $75 a bottle and the other Penfolds reduced accordingly would it be an automatic buy for everyone?

BTW, the last time Grange was released at this price was the 1986 vintage in 1992. Maybe someone can tell us what that is in today's dollars.
Just comparing it with the cost of a Holden Commodore Executive: In 1992, a Commodore Executive (RRP $24924) was worth 332 bottles of 1986 Grange. In 2006, a Commodore Executive (RRP $33990) is worth 75 bottles of 2001 Grange at $450/bottle.
I guess it shows how much more expensive Grange is, and that cars have probably got relatively cheaper. Grange is nearly 4.5 times more expensive in relative terms compared with the Commodore. Other comparisons may be interesting.

Jay60A · Post by **Jay60A** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:35 pm

Roscoe wrote:
Ratcatcher wrote:If all of a sudden Max Schubert returned to Earth and launched a takeover bid for Penfolds and assumed control and reduced Grange's price to $75 a bottle and the other Penfolds reduced accordingly would it be an automatic buy for everyone?

BTW, the last time Grange was released at this price was the 1986 vintage in 1992. Maybe someone can tell us what that is in today's dollars.
Just comparing it with the cost of a Holden Commodore Executive: In 1992, a Commodore Executive (RRP $24924) was worth 332 bottles of 1986 Grange. In 2006, a Commodore Executive (RRP $33990) is worth 75 bottles of 2001 Grange at $450/bottle.
I guess it shows how much more expensive Grange is, and that cars have probably got relatively cheaper. Other comparisons may be interesting.

Discussion on wine prices is futile. Either buy or don't - vote with your feet. For me pure economics: supply and demand. The number of people who can (and will) pay dictates the price. Lots of places can make good cars, not ultra-great red wine (yet).

Sorry guys but Grange pricing is a reflection of ALL the top wine prices. Have you looked at the expected price of 2005 bdx? or DRC? Outrageous I agree, but bet you the next "great" vintage in 2010+ will be 50% more again and some (enough) people will pay. Grange tracks that more than the Aussie prices I think.

Put it another way. Some moron just paid 20,000 NZD for a hand-bag Tana Umaga (All Black skipper) hit Chris Masoe (All Black) over the head with in a night club. How many First Growth or Grange or Elton John's dresses is THAT ??? ... the QPR is real poor imo. :lol:

Cheers -- Jay

kirragc · Post by **kirragc** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:22 pm

The thing that gets me with Grange is it inherits the mantle of Australias best wine when many times that is not the case. So you buy Australias best wine at the premium price when that year may have produced 2 or 3 contenders that outshine Grange.

And as for the value just under that level the options are huge.

The other thing that gets me is that when it comes to bottle age there are a whole lot of sleepers out there that could easily blow away a similar vintage Grange.
Grange is an icon no doubt but the marketing and price makes it a show-off wine in my book.

Id even venture so far as to say that its a great wine for people who have a limited appreciation of wine.

Roscoe · Post by **Roscoe** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:10 pm

Jay60A wrote:Discussion on wine prices is futile. Either buy or don't - vote with your feet. For me pure economics: supply and demand. The number of people who can (and will) pay dictates the price.

Yeah Jay, we all know about supply and demand. It does not follow that discussion about price is futile. Otherwise, we might end up paying thousands of dollars for things like tulip bulbs or shares in companies that have never and will produce nothing. :wink:

Ratcatcher · Post by **Ratcatcher** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:15 pm

With the benefit of seeing all the comments made I should have phrased my original question thus:

Is there anyone out there who drinks Grange on the very odd occasion and thinks: Oh my God this is magnificent I wish I could I could afford to drink it 5 times as often as I do - and when drinking other premium wines think to themselves: Yeah this is nice but I'd swap it for a glass of Grange any day?

Or is the other premium stuff in the $40 - $70 bracket just as good to drink as Grange? I'm not saying better QPR - is it just as enjoyable and interesting to drink as Grange?

ie: is Grange simply a better drinking experience than all other Australian full bodied reds? (Ignoring years like 2000)

Adair · Post by **Adair** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:57 am

Ratcatcher wrote:With the benefit of seeing all the comments made I should have phrased my original question thus:

Is there anyone out there who drinks Grange on the very odd occasion and thinks: Oh my God this is magnificent I wish I could I could afford to drink it 5 times as often as I do - and when drinking other premium wines think to themselves: Yeah this is nice but I'd swap it for a glass of Grange any day?

Or is the other premium stuff in the $40 - $70 bracket just as good to drink as Grange? I'm not saying better QPR - is it just as enjoyable and interesting to drink as Grange?

ie: is Grange simply a better drinking experience than all other Australian full bodied reds? (Ignoring years like 2000)

Without considering the merits of the single vineyard vs. multi-vineyard region debate, unfortunatley the answer to your question is still yes on the majority of occassions.
Adair

Baby Chickpea · Post by **Baby Chickpea** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:19 am

kirragc wrote:Id even venture so far as to say that its a great wine for people who have a limited appreciation of wine.

Disagree vehemently. So just about every wine reviewer/writer/critic worldwide has "a limited appreciation of wine"?. :Oh, please! :wink:

Adair · Post by **Adair** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:25 am

Baby Chickpea wrote:
kirragc wrote:Id even venture so far as to say that its a great wine for people who have a limited appreciation of wine.
Disagree vehemently. So just about every wine reviewer/writer/critic worldwide has "a limited appreciation of wine"?. :Oh, please!

Yes, I agree with Danny. Just because Grange is of a style that is widely appreciated by people with a limited appreciation of wine, that is in the Australian ripe, big and bold style, it does not mean that a wine within this style can't have the greatness in classical standards to be appreciated by great palates. Grange is such a wine... and I am a person who dislikes the majority of Australian wines in the "Australian ripe, big and bold" style as I find most cloying and unbalanced.

Adair

Roscoe · Post by **Roscoe** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:25 pm

I have to agree with Danny and Adair. From my experience, people with uneducated palates are quite often disappointed with Grange. Perhaps the hype and cost has something to do with this, causing unrealistic expectations.
I do think Grange (in my experience) is on average a better wine than the best wines in the 40-70 bracket. But we all know it's not 7-8 times better.

Josie · Post by **Josie** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:35 pm

Baby Chickpea wrote:
kirragc wrote:Id even venture so far as to say that its a great wine for people who have a limited appreciation of wine.

Disagree vehemently. So just about every wine reviewer/writer/critic worldwide has "a limited appreciation of wine"?. :Oh, please!

i don't know. i think kirragc's generalisation is a little wide, but there is some truth to it. a lot of the grange bought at our store is for people who don't know a lot about wine, but who want an expensive bottle, especially if it's a gift. while grange is not just for people who have a limited appreciation of wine, it is the no-brainer option for people who don't know a lot about wine, but want an expensive bottle.

in part this may well be testament to the fact that you can't go too far wrong with a grange. on the other hand it may simply point out how well marketed it is.