The legendary wines of the 21st century in Australia?

[Matt@5453]

2010 Armagh.
2008/2010 Florita
2002/2004 Benbournie
2009 Pennies reserve bin a
50yr old rare tawny

I see the 2012 cab benbournie is the current release
never heard of it
can you describe the wine style ?

The 2012 Benbournie is bloody sensational. I would describe as an 'elegant' style. If I were to compare it to a 'style' or other wine, similar mould to the 2013 Grossett Gaia. The length of the wine is sensational

[michel]

2010 Armagh.
2008/2010 Florita
2002/2004 Benbournie
2009 Pennies reserve bin a
50yr old rare tawny

I see the 2012 cab benbournie is the current release
never heard of it
can you describe the wine style ?

The 2012 Benbournie is bloody sensational. I would describe as an 'elegant' style. If I were to compare it to a 'style' or other wine, similar mould to the 2013 Grossett Gaia. The length of the wine is sensational

oak style?

[wheel]

2010 Armagh.
2008/2010 Florita
2002/2004 Benbournie
2009 Pennies reserve bin a
50yr old rare tawny

I see the 2012 cab benbournie is the current release
never heard of it
can you describe the wine style ?

Its a Clare Valley Cabernet. quite rich and has some interesting varietal notes without the coonawarra style to it.

[michel]

2010 Armagh.
2008/2010 Florita
2002/2004 Benbournie
2009 Pennies reserve bin a
50yr old rare tawny

I see the 2012 cab benbournie is the current release
never heard of it
can you describe the wine style ?

Its a Clare Valley Cabernet. quite rich and has some interesting varietal notes without the coonawarra style to it.

Cheers big ears

[sparky]

From what I've seen so far, there's some 2017 Tassie pinot that might give it a good nudge.

So what's the definition of legendary anyway?

[michel]

Provenance over time
Age worthy
Etc
I don't personally believe we have Pinots in Australia
IMHO

[sjw_11]

I don't personally believe we have Pinots in Australia
IMHO

ScreenShot214.jpg

[TiggerK]

So what's the definition of legendary anyway?

Open for interpretation of course, and I think only time will tell. I think most here would agree with the following criteria for a wine to be considered legendary.....

* Will easily cellar a considerable amount of time, while growing in interest and complexity. I would expect 15 years minimum, ideally a lot more.

* When you taste it in its optimal drinking window, you sit back and go "Wow, this is world class. I would bring to to a high end dinner with some of the great wines of the world and it would impress many people. It has balance, character, depth, complexity and length. I will remember this wine for a very long time."

I don't personally believe we have Pinots in Australia IMHO

Um, we have wines made from Pinot Noir. I suspect you mean "I don't personally believe we have Pinots in Australia that qualify as Pinot when compared to Burgundy IMHO"?

I won't argue, it's pointless (and I share a measure of your sentiment), but I dislike Black and White statements. I feel there is always grey. So I will ask... you don't feel that any Australian Pinot can compete with any Burgundy?

Cheers
Tim

[Diddy]

So what's the definition of legendary anyway?

Halliday 97pts

[Ozzie W]

So what's the definition of legendary anyway?

Halliday 97pts

He gave so many wines 97 points in his latest Wine Companion awards. 97 is the new 96!

[Diddy]

So what's the definition of legendary anyway?

Halliday 97pts

He gave so many wines 97 points in his latest Wine Companion awards. 97 is the new 96!

Personally, I actually thought 98 was the 97!

[Ozzie W]

I don't personally believe we have Pinots in Australia IMHO

Um, we have wines made from Pinot Noir. I suspect you mean "I don't personally believe we have Pinots in Australia that qualify as Pinot when compared to Burgundy IMHO"?

I won't argue, it's pointless (and I share a measure of your sentiment), but I dislike Black and White statements. I feel there is always grey. So I will ask... you don't feel that any Australian Pinot can compete with any Burgundy?

I would struggle to count on one hand the number of Aussie Pinots I've had that resemble wines from Burgundy. IMHO, when it comes to Pinot Noir, there is no competition. One can certainly compare the crème de la crème of Aussie Pinots with a Premier Cru from Burgundy, but the Grand Cru's just blow anything Aussie out of the water.

Now don't get me wrong, I love Aussie Pinot and I buy/cellar it. In terms of QPR, Aussie Pinot wins hands down. But take price out of the equation and Burgundy wins nearly every time.

[Dragzworthy]

Woodlands top line Cabernet will enter legendary status... this is the one I'm most confident about. Margaret River in general now, in my humble opinion, has some amazing terroir and they are arguably producing the best Cabernet blends (potentially Chardonnay too) in the country...

And I'm not sorry if you're offended and disagree

[cuttlefish]

Best Cab blends quite possibly
Best Chardonnay ? Not quite. Best chard can almost come from anywhere.

[Dragzworthy]

Ok yes got a little excited there

[Rocky]

Woodlands top line Cabernet will enter legendary status... this is the one I'm most confident about. Margaret River in general now, in my humble opinion, has some amazing terroir and they are arguably producing the best Cabernet blends (potentially Chardonnay too) in the country...

And I'm not sorry if you're offended and disagree

Don't be too excited. I think you nailed it.

[phillisc]

So what's the definition of legendary anyway?

Halliday 97pts

Coming in off the long run...Diddy your post here on this makes me laugh and laugh and laugh

97 points!!!
That wouldn't even rate a Bronze medal in 2018!

Cheers
Craig

[bdellabosca]

So what's the definition of legendary anyway?

Halliday 97pts

Coming in off the long run...Diddy your post here on this makes me laugh and laugh and laugh

97 points!!!
That wouldn't even rate a Bronze medal in 2018!

Cheers
Craig

+ 1

[Ian S]

I don't personally believe we have Pinots in Australia IMHO

Um, we have wines made from Pinot Noir. I suspect you mean "I don't personally believe we have Pinots in Australia that qualify as Pinot when compared to Burgundy IMHO"?

I won't argue, it's pointless (and I share a measure of your sentiment), but I dislike Black and White statements. I feel there is always grey. So I will ask... you don't feel that any Australian Pinot can compete with any Burgundy?

I would struggle to count on one hand the number of Aussie Pinots I've had that resemble wines from Burgundy. IMHO, when it comes to Pinot Noir, there is no competition. One can certainly compare the crème de la crème of Aussie Pinots with a Premier Cru from Burgundy, but the Grand Cru's just blow anything Aussie out of the water.

Now don't get me wrong, I love Aussie Pinot and I buy/cellar it. In terms of QPR, Aussie Pinot wins hands down. But take price out of the equation and Burgundy wins nearly every time.

Yes, the danger here is that if the benchmark is set that great Pinot Noir must taste like great Burgundy, then we've lost sight of that great Burgundian passion for terroir. A good wine reflecting its sense of place and with great complexity is arguably more interesting than an imitation.

I love Nebbiolo, but I'm happy to try Nebbiolo from wherever, not just the Langhe. I don't set my definition of good being 'like Barolo or Barbaresco', but in being an interesting and tasty drink. I very much enjoy Ghemme, Gattinara, Boca etc. from the north of the region, and Donnas/z from the border with Valle d'Aosta, plus some Valtellina from Lombardia, usually in a lighter / bonier style and I prize them for that point of difference. Sfursat / Sforzato is not a style I've taken to but who knows. I enjoyed a couple of Aussie versions in strikingly different styles and even a good value one from Mexico. It will be a while before the newer regions learn the grape in their context, but I hope to see some successes as they learn

Regards
Ian

[Polymer]

I would struggle to count on one hand the number of Aussie Pinots I've had that resemble wines from Burgundy. IMHO, when it comes to Pinot Noir, there is no competition. One can certainly compare the crème de la crème of Aussie Pinots with a Premier Cru from Burgundy, but the Grand Cru's just blow anything Aussie out of the water.

This is where people get Burgundy wrong...Grand Cru Burgundy is not necessarily better than even Village...It is all about Producer, and then producer and then producer.....

But I agree, in general AU Pinot is terrible...There are a few AU producers that are pretty good...but in general they're not. It isn't that they're not making Burgundy...but they're trying to make Pinot do/be something it isn't. Or maybe that is the only way they know how to make wine...

[Ozzie W]

Yes, the danger here is that if the benchmark is set that great Pinot Noir must taste like great Burgundy, then we've lost sight of that great Burgundian passion for terroir. A good wine reflecting its sense of place and with great complexity is arguably more interesting than an imitation.

I buy/cellar/drink plenty of Aussie Pinot. Some of the better ones can hold their own in a line-up of 1er Burgs, e.g. Hillcrest Premium, Hoddles 1er. Many are taking the concept of terroir to heart with all the single block releases. Plenty of interesting things going on with Aussie Pinot and I don't think the goal of most producers is to emulate Burgundy. Saying all that, I'd still rather only buy/cellar/drink Burgs. They have an X-factor that no Aussie Pinot can match. The only reason I don't is an order or two of magnitude difference in cost.

I love Nebbiolo, but I'm happy to try Nebbiolo from wherever, not just the Langhe. I don't set my definition of good being 'like Barolo or Barbaresco', but in being an interesting and tasty drink. I very much enjoy Ghemme, Gattinara, Boca etc. from the north of the region, and Donnas/z from the border with Valle d'Aosta, plus some Valtellina from Lombardia, usually in a lighter / bonier style and I prize them for that point of difference. Sfursat / Sforzato is not a style I've taken to but who knows. I enjoyed a couple of Aussie versions in strikingly different styles and even a good value one from Mexico. It will be a while before the newer regions learn the grape in their context, but I hope to see some successes as they learn

Me too. I quite like the Neb from Ar.Pe.Pe in Valtellina and I've got a bit in the cellar. But for my palate, all the best Nebs come from Barolo/Barbaresco. There's something about the terroir in Barolo/Barbaresco that just suits Neb so well. I've tried quite a few from outside Italy too, primarily from Australia & USA, and they pale in comparison to the norm from Piedmont. Some of them are certainly interesting expressions of Italian Neb. However, when taking cost into consideration (they cost more than many great Langhe Nebs), there's one less reason to buy.

This is where people get Burgundy wrong...Grand Cru Burgundy is not necessarily better than even Village...It is all about Producer, and then producer and then producer.....

Agreed. Plenty of expensive and not so good Burgundy around.

But I agree, in general AU Pinot is terrible...There are a few AU producers that are pretty good...but in general they're not. It isn't that they're not making Burgundy...but they're trying to make Pinot do/be something it isn't. Or maybe that is the only way they know how to make wine...

Just like with Nebbiolo, I think it's all about terroir. Pinot from other countries (NZ, USA, etc.) just missing that special something that good Burgundy has.

[Mahmoud Ali]

Since we're talking about Australian pinot, let me just say that last weekend I had a 2001 Coldstream Hills Pinot Noir that was just lovely. It had typical pinot character, cola and strawberry on the nose and some ripe tomato and leather on the palate, and was elegant lithe on the palate. I served it blind and my friend the pinot lover was enthralled. Naturally enough he guessed pinot, and the hint of sweetness took him to the new world. However, neither he nor my better half came around to Australia. Says something that neither of them even thought of Australia but it also shows that well made Australian pinot can age and show some character. I've had this wine since its release here in Canada and back then recall reading that it was a lighter vintage and that no reserve wine was made. For the record it was 13.5% and made by Andrew Fleming.

I think it was my one and only Australian pinot and on the basis oif this bottle wish I had some more.

Cheers ............... Mahmoud.

PS: The cork was pristine, with hardly any staining beyond the bottom edge, and unlike many older Australian wines with a non-descript cork with a code number or some such thing, it had Coldstream Hills and the vintage inscribed on it.