Cellar Conditioners

[simon_wa]

Hi All,

I’ve been visiting the site on & off for 6 months and thought it was about time I added to the discussion.

I’m putting a new cellar into an existing home. 100mm cool room panelling, timber lined on the inside, roughly 12m3. Cellar construction isn’t a problem but the cooling options are so wide and varied I would like to know peoples experiences and thoughts.

I’m looking for a specific ducted cellar cooling unit that can be internally mounted with no exterior split system and capable of being moved to a bigger cellar (50m3) at a later date.

So far I have identified

Inoa – 50m3
$6,500
Cooling Capacity 1200W
Electrical Power 800W
Weight 46kg

Fondis – 50m3
$4,890
Cooling Capacity 1200W
Electrical Power 550W
Weight 52kg


So far the Fondis unit is looking the more attractive. Purchase cost and performance being the two main criteria. The Fondis unit also has a circulating fan that runs at a lower speed once the compressor is off to circulate the air within the cellar.

[Michael McNally]

Sounds good Simon. What sort of capacity will a 12m3 hold?

Are you doing racks or just stacking boxes?

Cheers and welcome to the forum!

Michael

[Hacker]

Those seem to be some hefty pricetags.

I have a cellar about 3.5m by 2m by 2.5m high, and the guy that did the insulating installed an Acson G Series split system for around $1500 way back in 2006. Keeps the temp around 14 degrees in summer and 12 in winter. Humidity also under control. Very happy with it. Must admit I had never heard of the brand before, but it works a treat.

[jeanmaddocks]

That may cost you much for a cellar with that brand. But if you are guaranteed of its quality better have it. However, they may have some discounted cellars like those online.

[S28]

I put in a Cellarpro. Working wonderfully.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12819

Glad to chat if you want.

Stu

[michel]

Those seem to be some hefty pricetags.

I have a cellar about 3.5m by 2m by 2.5m high, and the guy that did the insulating installed an Acson G Series split system for around $1500 way back in 2006. Keeps the temp around 14 degrees in summer and 12 in winter. Humidity also under control. Very happy with it. Must admit I had never heard of the brand before, but it works a treat.

i am on split system #2
fujitsu
first one lasted 14 years

how do you control humidity?

[Hacker]

It just magically stays around 60-70%. not sure why, as the a/c should suck the moisture out of the air. I have a max/min hygrometer thingo that gives me the humidity reading. Just lucky I guess.

[Waiters Friend]

I have a 3m x 3m garden shed with polyurethane spray-on insulation and a standard box-style 'wall mounted' aircon - replaced last week after over 15 year of service. The 900 or so bottles in there are quite comfortable at the moment, around 17' (in Perth). Humidity is around 65%

[michel]

I have a 3m x 3m garden shed with polyurethane spray-on insulation and a standard box-style 'wall mounted' aircon - replaced last week after over 15 year of service. The 900 or so bottles in there are quite comfortable at the moment, around 17' (in Perth). Humidity is around 65%

My split system fujitsu failed after 14 years do I slotted a box style LG for a week and ran it on maximum & it wouldnt cool anything so i went back to split fujitsu
Thank goodness it failed in winter
I hear box ac are 'out of favour' with the greenies and will be outlawed

[simon_wa]

Sounds good Simon. What sort of capacity will a 12m3 hold?

Are you doing racks or just stacking boxes?

Cheers and welcome to the forum!

Michael

Hi Michael,

I anticipate I should get around 1300 bottles using square mesh racking. Intention is to rack half and then do the other side as and when needed.

I have a few friends who may take up some space with cartons, so that will add to the thermal mass available.


The choice to use split systems is a hard one given the lower capex cost but I'm looking at the longer term.

Cheers
Simon

[Michael McNally]

Strewth - 1300 bottles is some cellar!

Good luck with it all.When I was putting a cellar in, Yasmin suggested I look on ebay for racks (as having them made was going to cost around $5K). A nightclub in the Valley was selling four 18x12 bottle racks. They had some surface rust but were extremely sturdy. I picked up the four for a total of $110. Cleaaning them up cost another couple of hundred.

Cheers

Michael

[mphatic]

Simon,

If you're still around and reading this forum, which cellar conditioner did you end up installing?

Do you have any further feedback on the Inoa or Fondis options?

TIA

[simon_wa]

Hi TIA,

Apologies, I've been busy and haven't been on here for a while.

I got a Fondis C25 IN in the end. The Fondis was my preference between the two and by chance it came up on Gumtree. 12 month old unit for just under half new pricing I was sold. I needed the ducted unit due to installation requirements.

I really liked the fact the when the compressor was off the fan still ran but at a lower speed to circulate air. I've added circulating fans to both my wine fridges for this reason and got much better even air temperature throughout.

I haven't installed it yet, but have pulled the casing apart to have a look. Looks very well made and simple design. I also looked to see if I could remote mount the controller external to the unit, which after consulting a commercial air con mate confirmed I could. So intent to mount the controller next to the cellar door.

I spoke with Laurie at CellarWine Cellar Solutions a few times about install, operating etc. and that gave me reassurance the Fondis was the unit to get.

Anything else, let me know.

Cheers
Simon

[Teddy]

I've got a fondis 25, and it has been great. Constant temp, and does not seem to cost a fortune to run. But I guess that comes down to your insulation.
Trev

[mphatic]

Thanks, Simon and Trev.

I'm in the early stages of planning a cellar build under my high-set house and wasn't making much headway with the choice of conditioners. I've decided to go down the dedicated cellar conditioner route rather than modify a domestic air conditioning unit. My wines are currently stored offsite at perfect conditions (13 degrees and 60-70% humidity) and I'm so happy with their development that I want to replicate the same conditions at home.

One concern I do have with the Inoa relates to its heating function (which I would rarely need given I live in sunny Qld with the cellar 3/4 submerged under earth). I'd be quite devastated to walk into the cellar one day to find that the temperature control system had failed causing the conditioner to heat up the room and cook the wine. The literature I've found doesn't mention the possibility of switching off the heating function. Does the Fondis unit also have heating functionality?

Can I ask what you have done (or plan to do) with regards to racking inside the cellar? Nearly all options I've looked at are hideously priced; the pre-made steel systems cost at least $2/bottle, and the wooden alternatives start around $3.50/bottle depending on the layout. For a small cellar these costs might not be prohibitive, but for a couple of thousand bottles the racking costs will be the biggest line item in the budget. I realise that it's a niche market, but would have expected some more competition at the bottom (non-custom) end.

Cheers,
mphatic

[simon_wa]

I've got a fondis 25, and it has been great. Constant temp, and does not seem to cost a fortune to run. But I guess that comes down to your insulation.
Trev

Hi Trev,

Did you follow the Fondis recommendations on insulation thickness? I'm looking to go up one thickness more due to minimal cost increase. I was also informed that double thickness on the ceiling is very beneficial.

Hi mphatic,

I can't comment on the heating function (500w according to manual) or how it operates but suggest you give Laurie a call at CellarWine Cellar Solutions for the definitive answer. I'd be interested to know also.

Regarding the racking, I'll be welding my own up from 100x100x5mm mesh surrounded by 25x25 RHS (box tubing). Excluding my time it works out at 50c per bottle inclusive of steel, sandblasting and powder coating. Here in Perth mesh regular comes up cheap in the Quokka or Gumtree and I grabbed some. Maybe have a chat to a wine drinking friend with a welder and swap a few cases for his time or find a small fabrication workshop close by. I have some odd dimensions of wall lengths and height, so want to maximise available racking hence making my own is better and cheaper.
Plus you can incorporate a few rows at the top for magnums.

Cheers
Simon

[Teddy]

Hi Simon,
For my insulation I used 75 mm extruded foam panels, I also insulated within the wall cavity and in the ceiling on top of foam panel with rockwool, then there is sisilation wall wrap then a 50 mm air cavity then hebal panel on the exterior. Works really well. As for racks I too have used steel mesh but have inclosed it in a vic ash hardwood frame, with me making them it has been very cost effective. I still have one wall to rack, maybe for some magnums and half bottles.