The Auswine Forum

Why is it that Penfolds in their infinte wisdom think its funny to charge 3x the retail price of a 750ml for a magnum? Is maths really in that much of a state in the Australian school system?

When I buy a magnum of Puriri hills it was slightly under a 2x a 750mls bottle

When I order bdx futures the magnums are 2x a 750mls

When I order a Magnum of Coleraine it is just a shade over 2x the 750mls price

Someone is taking the piss with Grange!!! $500 for a 750mls, $1500 for a 1500mls??? Someone in the boardroom at SC is laughing really loud

Craig(NZ) wrote:Someone in the boardroom at SC is laughing really loud

Just before they restructure yet again and get fired.

cheers

Carl

Yes, it seems magnum buyers in Aus are a hopeless lot.

Yalumba are one of the few that seem to price magnums at just twice the price of the single bottles, but unfortunately other producers havn't followed suit.

I think it's just been that way for years - most buyers tend to place a premium on magnums because of the (usually) limited number of them made and the basis that they well cellar better than a 750ml. It happens so often at auction I guess I can't really blame retailers/producers getting in on the act, although as Brain mentioned there are a few who charge little to no premium (Yarra Yering is another who immediately comes to mind).

Cheers,
Ian

Ps. Craig, I noticed you seem to be missing your avitiar so may I suggest a replacement?

most buyers tend to place a premium on magnums because of the (usually) limited number of them made and the basis that they well cellar better than a 750ml

scarcity is a rubbish excuse. 05 Puriri Hills Pope. I was told 14 magnums made. Cost me less than 2x a 750mls for one.

As for cellar ability, this isnt a cost driven excuse. Its a "how can I make a bigger margin based on a perceived benefit" excuse. Although magnums may cellar better once they get bigger than that (and price ditto goes wayward) some believe cellar ability could get worse (proposed by JB from Te Mata when discussing the non benefits of more than 1.5L over multiple 1.5L). Bottles not as precise, cork bigger, opening bigger.

Ps. Craig, I noticed you seem to be missing your avitiar so may I suggest a replacement?

Great kiwi humour movie. One of my best friends had a role being eaten in Black Sheep. He was the chinese guy in the business suit

Not totally up to date with costs but heard where a 750ml glass bottle is say 50c a magnum may be $10

There is also a bit more cost associated to handling, filling, corking and capsuling, hand labelling etc

However this should fall into the "slightly more than 2x category", not the "$500 more" category

Just bought a 389 05 for about $100 on the weekend. Not too bad
I think in comparison to others. Don't mind paying an extra $10 for a bigger bottle but have seen these going for $160 in the same shop not long ago. That is ludicrous.

n4sir wrote:.... most buyers tend to place a premium on magnums .....on the basis that they well cellar better than a 750ml. ...

This would apply to cork sealed wines, but the screwcap is working its way up the premium ladder. eg Penfolds 389, Mt Langhi, Mt Edelstone.

I wouldn't think there's any cellaring advantage of a magnum vs 750 where they are both under screwcap. Then it's logistical rather than maturation issues.

Or am I missing something?

Would a screwcapped 1500 live longer than a screwcapped 750?

Decca wrote:I wouldn't think there's any cellaring advantage of a magnum vs 750 where they are both under screwcap. Then it's logistical rather than maturation issues.

Or am I missing something?

Would a screwcapped 1500 live longer than a screwcapped 750?

Yes - in theory - there's less air per litre of wine in a magnum than a bottle, so it has less oxygen to react to and therefore ages slower.

Bick wrote:

Decca wrote:I wouldn't think there's any cellaring advantage of a magnum vs 750 where they are both under screwcap. Then it's logistical rather than maturation issues.

Or am I missing something?

Would a screwcapped 1500 live longer than a screwcapped 750?

Yes - in theory - there's less air per litre of wine in a magnum than a bottle, so it has less oxygen to react to and therefore ages slower.

Does that mean there is more chance of it being reductive?

cheers

Carl

I'm pretty sure Wirra Wirra have a Jeroboam of their Church Block which may be not too bad vs the bottle price.

For this reason, I think the last magnum I bought was about 5 years ago, when younger and more foolish...

to rub the salt even more, the penfolds here is already much higher than the other countries like the NZ ,States, UK.......
And the magnum charge a further $500+ its insane!
In States, Grange its roughly $300 aussie a bottle work out to be $400 a litre and here is selling $1500 for 1.5litre =$1000 a litre!!!!!!
Boyeah

I only buy them if they are less than or equal to twice 750ml price. Consequently I have the grand total of 3 in my cellar i.e around 0.3% of my cellar. Cynical marketing is the answer IMHO, but obviously it works.
Whenever I think of gullibility, I just think about Firepower. What did P.T. Barnum say?
There is a book currently being released about the Firepower debacle- I suspect it should be compulsory reading for all of us.

Some places like Curly Flat have back vintages that are only available in Magnums, so that's one case where I'm interested, even if it doesn't justify the price. It's something I've wondered about for sure.

I did have a magnum of Howard Park Riesling which was 2x $ a 750mls. So obviously some Aussie winemakers get it right.

It's only the Grange Magnum that costs much extra.

My magnum of 2005 St Henri was $160
My magnums of 2006 Bin 707 were $370
My magnums of 2006 Bin 389 were $105
My magnum of 2006 Bin 28 was $55

I have found Magnums are usually reasonably priced at around 2 x bottle price. They are great for larger gatherings and do seem to age longer and slower than a bottle.

We currently have about 70 in our cellar.

The price for some, especially Grange, seems to be inflated because they are collectable. I avoid these.

I only buy wine that I plan to drink - and I plan to drink every wine I have bought. (hey, I might make that my sig)

Tahbilk's 1860s Vines magnums are about 2x the cost of a 750ml bottle, perhaps slightly more but they are individually packaged in gift boxes. The magnums of the standard wines are noticeably more than 2x the single bottle prices but again are individually gift-boxed.

Cheers

daz

John #11 wrote:It's only the Grange Magnum that costs much extra.

My magnum of 2005 St Henri was $160 $140
My magnums of 2006 Bin 707 were $370 $300
My magnums of 2006 Bin 389 were $105 $80
My magnum of 2006 Bin 28 was $55

Two x single bottle case price shown in red above.

Red Bigot wrote:

John #11 wrote:It's only the Grange Magnum that costs much extra.

My magnum of 2005 St Henri was $160 $140
My magnums of 2006 Bin 707 were $370 $300
My magnums of 2006 Bin 389 were $105 $80
My magnum of 2006 Bin 28 was $55

Two x single bottle case price shown in red above.

Yeah, I thought that might be the case...

Of course Brian's most likely quoting the best available prices for the single bottles, as he does

Had a Magnum of 1991 Rockfords Basket press and took it along to a 91 tasting and it was brilliant!!!

From that point i like magnums , they go the distance .

Mind you i would buy more if they were a more reasonable price

Regards Dazza

Daryl Douglas wrote:Of course Brian's most likely quoting the best available prices for the single bottles, as he does

Those are the readily available pb mixed dozen prices, including freight, not "mates rates" or spot specials.

"There is always a bettter price somewhere, usually just after you bought it."

Craig(NZ) wrote:

Ps. Craig, I noticed you seem to be missing your avitiar so may I suggest a replacement?

Great kiwi humour movie. One of my best friends had a role being eaten in Black Sheep. He was the chinese guy in the business suit

Glad you got a laugh out of it.

Craig(NZ) wrote:Not totally up to date with costs but heard where a 750ml glass bottle is say 50c a magnum may be $10

There is also a bit more cost associated to handling, filling, corking and capsuling, hand labelling etc

However this should fall into the "slightly more than 2x category", not the "$500 more" category

As you mentioned, if they have to be hand filled, hand labeled, hand sealed and otherwise made properly (ie. appropriate sulphur adjustments, and not just thrown together by whacking two already-made 750mls and into a magnum bottle as I've heard can occur) all this time & effort adds to the cost of making what's a (relatively) tiny batch. So assuming your $10/bottle figure is right, for Grange which could say cost (:cough:) about $25/bottle tops to make, a magnum would then cost a whole 240% extra - in that regard they could say they should be justified in charging a 200% premium for their trouble in doing it!

Ultimately, as I mentioned before it all comes down to what someone is prepared to pay for it - last night at a committee meeting someone mentioned 2004 Rockford Basket Press magnums have now been released for $150 which is the same 3x hike: nobody will argue with that though because they would have to pay double that again to get one at auction.

Cheers,
Ian

Ps. I agree the 'scarcity' tactic is usually rubbish to suck in the collectors - large format bottles because are so rarely drunk. On the other hand, those who do drink them appreciate the qualities a properly made and cellared bottle has - with about one or two rare exceptions (where I think appropriate breathing was an issue) every wine I've tried from magnum has been significantly better than the equivalent in 750ml.

Ultimately, as I mentioned before it all comes down to what someone is prepared to pay for it - last night at a committee meeting someone mentioned 2004 Rockford Basket Press magnums have now been released for $150 which is the same 3x hike: nobody will argue with that though because they would have to pay double that again to get one at auction.

agree. however there is a thing called competition. If 90% of wine firms allocate costs in such a way (it is just accounting after all and the assumptions you make in allocating costs) that affords them to market a magnum at 2x a 750mls, then the 10% that dont can expect the consumer to notice, comment and make conclusions. That is what I am doing

You could argue that magnum at 2x a 750ml means disproportionate costs assigned to 750mls...so are the 750mls overpriced???

griff wrote:

Craig(NZ) wrote:Someone in the boardroom at SC is laughing really loud

Just before they restructure yet again and get fired.

cheers

Carl

Good old SC, about 3-4 years ago they had a clean out of their Lindemans cellar, apparently over stocked with Magnums. (Hmm, perhaps the asking prices were too high?) I bought six unlabelled St George 95 Magnums for $40 each. I think Brian would find that's less than x2 the price of a 750!

Wine buyers revenge?

Softie wrote:

griff wrote:

Craig(NZ) wrote:Someone in the boardroom at SC is laughing really loud

Just before they restructure yet again and get fired.

cheers

Carl

Good old SC, about 3-4 years ago they had a clean out of their Lindemans cellar, apparently over stocked with Magnums. (Hmm, perhaps the asking prices were too high?) I bought six unlabelled St George 95 Magnums for $40 each. I think Brian would find that's less than x2 the price of a 750!

Wine buyers revenge?

Yeah, I got some Pyrus 2001 unlabelled magums for the same price.

Bick wrote:

Decca wrote:Yes - in theory - there's less air per litre of wine in a magnum than a bottle, so it has less oxygen to react to and therefore ages slower.

But bottles are gassed with nitrogen (I think its nitrogen) when bottled..so there should actually be no air/oxygen in the bottle at all...so really a 750ml screwcap bottle should age exactly the same as a 1500ml bottle or even a 15000ml as long as they are all stored in exact conditions.

The volume of air Vs Volume of wine ratio really only works with wines under cork as there can be movement of air through the cork.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure this is how it works.

Magnums are great of entertaining but the costs involved in bottling and sales can be more of an issue than an advantage for a winery but deffinatly does not mean the wine should be 3x the price. 2x yes...maybe a tad over this due to increased costs and maybe a bit of "rarity"....ohh and a little bit of wank factor thrown in for good measure...but deffinatly not 3x....well unless there are customers stupid enough to pay it...then it may just be worth it