The Auswine Forum

Here's some of the more notable (or "bloody stupid") prices paid at the last big Melbourne "1998" auction. Remember to add 13.75% to all these knockdown prices :

LEASINGHAM Bin 61 Shiraz, Clare Valley 1998 $34

MOUNT MARY Quintet Cabernets, Yarra Valley 1998 1 Magnum $902 (a single bottle sold for $178.00)

MOUNT MARY Quintet Cabernets, Yarra Valley 1998 1 Imperial $5601

PENFOLDS Bin 95 Grange Shiraz, South Australia 1998 $580

PENFOLDS Bin 95 Grange Shiraz, South Australia 1998 1 Magnum $2396

ROCKFORD Basket Press Shiraz, Barossa Valley 1998 1 Magnum $342

WENDOUREE Shiraz, Clare Valley 1998 $185

One could gather from all this that 1998 fever is still well and truly alive.

It's a mystery why Ozzies are so obssessed with magnum btls.

MartinC wrote:It's a mystery why Ozzies are so obssessed with magnum btls.

huh?

MartinC wrote:It's a mystery why Ozzies are so obssessed with magnum btls.

Yes, the magnum results look amazing. I have a feeling very few of these would have been bought by Australians though...

AB

Always has amazed me to work out how aussies pay (or ask) 4-5x as much $$ for a bottle containing only 2x the wine.

Seems not to happen in NZ eg 98 Coleriane Magnums were $99 when 750mls were $50, Unison Selection Magnums $70 when the 750mls were $35. 98 Brookfields Gold Label magnums were $99, the 750ml $49 etc etc

Sure I understand that a magnum bottle (the glass) may cost $10 where a 750ml bottle costs $1 and there may be some associated handling costs that add a little to the equation, but the prices asked for magnums are just insane in Australia. How can a magnum of Grange cost nigh on a six pack?? Just insane!

Is it just that many aussies cant do the maths or is there some other reason? Do Aussie wine drinkers enjoy being ripped off or do Aussie Winemakers/retailers enjoy ripping people off??

Questions all that need answering I guess

On the subject of the larger format bottles, many people that I know of buy them and collect them because they age the wine slower....and they are great to pull out at a party .

Craig(NZ). wrote:Always has amazed me to work out how aussies pay (or ask) 4-5x as much $$ for a bottle containing only 2x the wine.

Seems not to happen in NZ eg 98 Coleriane Magnums were $99 when 750mls were $50, Unison Selection Magnums $70 when the 750mls were $35. 98 Brookfields Gold Label magnums were $99, the 750ml $49 etc etc

Sure I understand that a magnum bottle (the glass) may cost $10 where a 750ml bottle costs $1 and there may be some associated handling costs that add a little to the equation, but the prices asked for magnums are just insane in Australia. How can a magnum of Grange cost nigh on a six pack?? Just insane!

Is it just that many aussies cant do the maths or is there some other reason? Do Aussie wine drinkers enjoy being ripped off or do Aussie Winemakers/retailers enjoy ripping people off??

Questions all that need answering I guess

Craig,
I think rarity plays a part in these prices, I don't know, but I'll bet there weren't too many Imperials of Mt Mary Quintet made in 1998! If Leonardo da Vinci had painted 20,000 Mona Lisa's, instead of just one, it sure as hell wouldn't be as valuable today, as it is!
Just a thought,
lantana

The point on rarity needs further consideration

1. We are comparing it to other wines (750mls) which is exactly the same stuff. We drink the wine, not the bottle. Dry River Pinot Magnums are rare, but they retail for $199, where the 750mls is $95.

2. The aging slower theory is valid I guess, though I always have said drink the wine at its optimum time. Who cares if a 750mls doesnt age as long. Just drink the stuff a bit earlier.

3. Yes they are good at parties I guess and look impressive

All the above points may contribute a small premium to a magnum of wine but I again I repeat myself - I cant see why a magnum should be 5x the price of a 750mls.

Perhaps the wine is bought more for wank wank value than the actual juice inside?

Craig(NZ). wrote:Perhaps the wine is bought more for wank wank value than the actual juice inside?

I can't see any other reason. I used to keep an eye out for interesting magnums at auction. But my rule was that I'd pay 2 x 750 price, +10% maximum. Needless to say, I don;t own a lot of magnums!

ABout the only magnum I might pay more than that for is a riesling. A riesling magnum, in the right shape, is a wonderfully impressive thing!

But 1998 prices are really silly. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that the Wendouree Shiraz will fetch only $120 in the next auction. I always used to wonder why people got so carried away with auctions that they'd pay more than the retail price (never mind the premium) sometimes. I just used to be charitable and assume they were from overseas, and therefore had no proper base for comparison.

Don't start me on buyer's premiums either. When I first joined Langtons back in 97, the buyers premium was 5%. When the governemnt lost the 7.5% excise, or whatever it was, this promptly jumped to 10%. Now it's 12%. Not happy, Jan...

cheers,
Graeme

I lament with Craig that double the wine costs more than double the money. I'd prefer it didnt, and I'm an Actuary by training so prima facie it just doesnt compute.

But I accept that wine, at least if the types discussed in this thread, is a luxury good, and all the usual economic theories of luxury goods apply (ie the wank wank value ). If you accept all that, the remaining issue is whether a magnum of Grange is a different commodity to a bottle of Grange. I'd contend that it is, so I have to sigh and accept that its market value is something ifferent to 2*bottle price

cheers

Andrew

I concur with the lament on magnums costing more than twice the price of the standard bottle.
Some producers I know - such as Tim Adams - keep the pricing much closer to twice the price. At least when last I bought from them.

A magnum doesn't just age better, the wine from them usually also tastes better IMO. I've lost count of the times when I've been floored by an additional element of freshness/"sweetness"/vivacity in the wine from a magnum when compared to the equivalent 750ml bottle. That is not to say that every instance will be so ("no great wines, only great bottles"), and a corked magnum is indeed a heart-breaking event, but I confess to being a magnum fan indeed.

Cheers,

S.

Don't start me on buyer's premiums either. When I first joined Langtons back in 97, the buyers premium was 5%. When the governemnt lost the 7.5% excise, or whatever it was, this promptly jumped to 10%. Now it's 12%. Not happy, Jan...

cheers,
Graeme

I believe in the current Sydney catalogue then buyer's premium is now a whopping 15%! Suffice to say I won't be buying from langtons in the future!

kenzo wrote:Some producers I know - such as Tim Adams - keep the pricing much closer to twice the price. At least when last I bought from them.

2001 Aberfeldy was exactly twice the 750 mL bottle for the magnum, well, my buy and sell price was at least.

It can be done!

I have only ever own 2 magnums.

one is 1996 St Henri which I pay $120.00 for
the other is Petaluma Hanlin Hill reisling @ $50.00 a piece (from the cellar door)

I refuse to pay for the magnum that is more than 2.5 times the price opf a single 750 ml.

Gavin Trott wrote:

kenzo wrote:Some producers I know - such as Tim Adams - keep the pricing much closer to twice the price. At least when last I bought from them.

2001 Aberfeldy was exactly twice the 750 mL bottle for the magnum, well, my buy and sell price was at least.

It can be done!

Tahbilk also sell magnums of their 1860s Vines Shiraz for twice the price of the standard bottle.

daz

Guest - Barry wrote:I believe in the current Sydney catalogue then buyer's premium is now a whopping 15%! Suffice to say I won't be buying from langtons in the future!

Yikes! I just checked the website, and indeed, it is as you say. The 15% includes GST, but none the less that represents yet another increase from 12.5%+GST to 13.6%+GST.

Now if they were brave they'd mention in a 'market report' that due to generally falling prices they've increased their comission. We presume that website must be chewing up expensive server time, then.

I will indeed consider my purchases even more carefully in future...

cheers,
Graeme

And another premium wine where the magnum equates to twice the 750mL price is the Stonyridge Larose. And when you factor in duties etc for getting it across the Tasman it works out to be less than twice the 750mL price. Interesting.

Interesting comments on the Langtons commissions. It would seem to me, having attended live auctions that their costs would have reduced severely going to the online format.

They have certainly increased their customer base and there is a lot more bidding with the online auctions. Additionally they are achieving much higher prices through this format than the live auction when people had to leave work early to get there and it was mainly restauranteurs and the like with the occasional retail wine nut making the effort. Now everyone can bid at work and does.

They are also printing far less catalogues than before too.

Considering they get a commission coming and going they should be making quite a bit of money for doing little more than storing, cataloguing and shipping wine.

I'm afraid I'm over it to a large degree and its heading for rip off territory.

Hi all,

I only have magnums that were cheap eg: $110 for Tahbilk 1860 vines, 1991; d'Arenberg 'original' $35 for a party in the future; Katnook Cab 98, free; and a 389 '97 for $70-80 I think. the 1860's was my bets buy and the 389 probably my worst.

regards,