The Auswine Forum

The Penfolds thread made me think ... I used to love this stuff ... I bought 389 from 1988 to 1993. and lots of Bin 28s.

Now what do I buy instead ??

Koonunga Hill => crap now, go to Chile, do not pass GO.
Bin 28 => Peter Lehmann Futures or St Hallett Blackwell. Lots. YUMMO.
Bin 389 => Still worth it, else Kaesler WOMS or Yalumba Signature
Bin 128 => Buy 1 bottle per good vintage, to try. Never ever more ...
Bin 407 => nah ...

You blokes and blokesses?

Koonunga Hill => Cheapies from Gray's Auctions are better and better value if you buy wisely.
Bin 28 => Numerous choices from all over Aus.
Bin 389 => Elderton Ode to Lorraine CSM, Kaesler WOMS or Yalumba Signature, Glaetzer Anaperenna. You still have to pay the same price or more to get a good Cab-Shiraz blend.
Bin 128 => Numerous choices, but not many from Coonawarra.
Bin 407 => Numerous Coonawarra, MR, Gt Southern Cabernets fit the bill. Even some good McLarenVale efforts in recent years and Yarra produces the goods some years.

I think basically that the 389, whilst it's skyrocketed price-wise still, in good vintages, represents a fair price (comparative to its peers) for cellaring outcomes. If the 04's and 05's of the 389 are doing as well as the '96 is now, then it's money (well) spent. IMO, the Bin 28 is pretty much obsolete in it's price-point, as is the Bin 128 and the Bin 407 was probably always a bit obsolete anyway.

If a compelling 389 vintage came out I'd consider a bottle or two but there's no way I'd bother with the 28 and 128 now, not even if they were reduced to $20 as I think their quality is less than past years anyway.

There was a time when I'd make a bit of a game of it to collect at least one bottle of every 389, more for good vintages but I couldn't imagine doing that any more - it's charm and uniqueness is no longer, as far as I'm concerned.

Not really a direct response to the original question but related I suppose.

Koonunga Hill => Bleasdale shiraz, cab sav, shiraz cab and the magic malbec, all good buys, especially the malbec
Bin 28 => Cimiky the trumps 2006, teusner riebke
Bin 389 => Ode to Lorriane, Henscke Keyneton,
Bin 128 => Coonawarra cab has been so good lately i have overlooked the shiraz. Zema estate. always had a soft spot for their wines
Bin 407 => ditto Red Bigot, resistance is futile!!! Cab Sav is back!

Jamie

Red Bigot wrote:Koonunga Hill => Cheapies from Gray's Auctions are better and better value if you buy wisely.
Bin 28 => Numerous choices from all over Aus.
Bin 389 => Elderton Ode to Lorraine CSM, Kaesler WOMS or Yalumba Signature, Glaetzer Anaperenna. You still have to pay the same price or more to get a good Cab-Shiraz blend.
Bin 128 => Numerous choices, but not many from Coonawarra.
Bin 407 => Numerous Coonawarra, MR, Gt Southern Cabernets fit the bill. Even some good McLarenVale efforts in recent years and Yarra produces the goods some years.

Good call on the Kaesler & the Glaetzer in particular Brian - both excellent wines from two very switched on Barossa wineries.

Now what do I buy instead ??

Te Mata new releases released same day. Why buy penfolds when you can buy styel!

Jay60A wrote:The Penfolds thread made me think ... I used to love this stuff ... I bought 389 from 1988 to 1993. and lots of Bin 28s.

Now what do I buy instead ??

Koonunga Hill => crap now, go to Chile, do not pass GO.
Bin 28 => Peter Lehmann Futures or St Hallett Blackwell. Lots. YUMMO.
Bin 389 => Still worth it, else Kaesler WOMS or Yalumba Signature
Bin 128 => Buy 1 bottle per good vintage, to try. Never ever more ...
Bin 407 => nah ...

You blokes and blokesses?

Completely agree about the KH - used to be a stable in my bargain bin, but I found the latest release ghoulish. Never really buy any of the others.

KH: For 21 years from 1976 to 1996 inclusive this was the benchmark of entry point wines that rewarded cellaring, and made very decent wines even in poor vintages (eg 1992, 1993, 1995), while the good vintages boxed well above their weight : 1976, 1990, 1991 & 1996 spectacularly.
However since 1997 I have been terribly disappointed on tasting each successive vintage - and watched as they became a "tanin-free zone". I have not bought since the 1976 vintage (and in good vintages I would buy up to 10 dozen!).
For most of its peak life the only real competition came from Wynns Ovens Valley Burgundy as it was known (last vintage of which was 1991)!

Replaced in buying with various cleanskins direct from winery eg Galah and more recently appropriate discreet Grays purchases.

bin 128: Coonawarra shiraz has never really appealed as much as CS (but then Michael 55 was pretty special) - yet in certain years this made very good wine eg 1991 superior to a very good Kalimna.
Recent vintages have been more cherry- like, and the last 6-pack I bought was 2004 vintage.
This was always a less-often-than- not purchase and I am not surprised that I have not directly "replaced" - or indeed, missed, it.

bin 28: perhaps Australia's unsung hero wine as representing extraordinary value for so long. Occasionally produycing a wine that was better than even its makes could believe eg 1986 (11 dozen bought!) but 2002 was the last instance of multiple dozens - albeit I purchased 18 bottles of 2004 and 12 bottles of 2005 when they were on superspecial.
The wine can be very good still (1994 holding well, 1996excellent now, 1998 coming good, 2002 will be good) but where it used to be an automatic big buy in good years, it no longer forms a major portion.

replacements: not really directly but a tendency to buy more Victorian shiraz has been evident (and the occasional Elderton or Pirramimma Reserve)

bin 407: very impressed with its potential on release of 1990 but it failed to live up to that fruit: instead being "all Penfolds and not CS in style". Recent releases are not bad wines but not my style.

Wynns BL a far superior wine for the patient to my tastes - and much more CS ie true to grape variety.

bin 389: wow - remembering whether I would buy this when the price soared into double digits (as for years it was under $4 per bottle by the case)! If you are prepared to give it 15 + years from vintage in decent celaring conditions, good vintages will be rewarding : and it WAS underpriced for a long time. However I wonder whether it will be appreciated as the CS blend takes a long time to integrate and it has the tendency to go through hibernation...and there is a lot of competition at its pricepoint.

Replacements: never bought as much Yalumba Signature as it warranted; a few vintages of Mallea and The Vicar, while the old days Limestone Ridge was a very different but good wine (no longer so good, nor value) and these days I think the Mentor is excellent and of at least as much interest.

My days of buying Grange & Magill (not to mention RWT) have been queled by pricing but St Henri is still a buy in good vintages, and the special bin wines are special - but perhaps not quite as special as the premium applied!!

regards

ghoulish

classic descriptor!!

Bin 138 => Samuel's Gorge Grenache, La Curio Grenache, Yangarra Grenache
Bin 28 => Tim Smith Shiraz
Bin 389 => Yalumba Signature
Bin 128 => Seppelt Chalambar
Bin 407 => Voyager Estate

Tristram Shandy

I saw Penfolds Bin 28 and 128 for $37 in a supermarket today. Are these Penfolds fools for real? Is their boardroom full of morons??

And why would anyone in NZ with half a brain (or even less) them at that price over a Church Rd Reserve Syrah??

Boycot Penfolds this year.

JamieH wrote:the magic malbec, all good buys, especially the malbec

Couldn't agree more - Bleasdale is the best Aussie malbec to my palate. Great value at recent price of $12!

Cheers

Dave

28, Still buy in good years
389, Still buy in good years
407, Buy Majella Cab instead, for $28 its a steal and in years like 04 and 05 its easily a $50+ wine IMHO, (earlier Vintages have done 10 years quite easy, Are there better reds for $28 that drink well now and cellar too? (probly Whnns Black is close but even that doesnt drink great on release IMO)?

128, Probably St Hallet Blackwell is the Shiraz in that price catergory i have bought most of recent times though not really a simmilar style.

Haven't bought Pefolds since 1998 vintage. 389 @ $50.00+. I don't think so. So many other better value wines available.

Chuck

Craig(NZ) wrote:I saw Penfolds Bin 28 and 128 for $37 in a supermarket today. Are these Penfolds fools for real? Is their boardroom full of morons??

And why would anyone in NZ with half a brain (or even less) them at that price over a Church Rd Reserve Syrah??

Boycot Penfolds this year.

It is pretty hard to get inspired by Penfolds these days, I must admit. Even seeing the St Henri 04 for $50 the other day was hardly life affirming (although granted I did pick up a couple) but really, I couldn't be arsed with them these days, all things taken into account. A 389 would need to be an extremely potent vintage for me to even raise an interested eyebrow right now.

There was a time, its quite a few years ago now, when my favorite retailer would put on a Penfolds release tasting. He is a big Grange fan and was always keen to get the best allocation he could, and Grange would even be in the tasting. But that is all past. Last Saturday he was more than a little ticked off that Bin 389 was now retailing at around $36USD - as far as he's concerned its a good deal at $20-25 which is where it has been in the past, but he's not going to put it into the shop at the current price. And now he's not all that excited about filling my order for 2004 St Henri. He's had months to fill it and so I've started to look elsewhere for it. I may end up paying close to $50USD for a wine I've bought since the 1992 vintage for $30-36USD. If St henri does go to $50USD, which I have seen for the $2004 and one offer for the 2005 then the 2004 will be my last 6-pack.

If Fosters is going to keep their wine business and they want to make it actually work then they will have to realize that

1) There is stiff competition at much better prices, and
2) There is something called a world-wide recession happening which has significantly reduced the spending of the consumer.

Mike

Just to add a different view-

I really like the 389 in good years (1996, 1998, 2005 that I've bought) and don't object to the prices as I've rarely payed retail.

I also enjoy the 407. Is it the best value? I don't know. Its a wine, its different to other wines. I like diversity in wine.

I'm reasonably sure I will enjoy the St Henri, when both it and I are old enough to crack a bottle

Not suggesting in any way that alternatives mentioned on this thread aren't great too. I'd drink 'em all if had the moneys and the livers to do so.

I still buy the Bin 389 in good years. I tasted it on Friday and Saturday and have no problems with paying $40 a bottle which i saw it for today. Close to $60 is another matter altogether. I bought a six pack on Friday at VC and got three cellar shares. Only thing is, I was a complete retard and only bought a six pack instead of a dozen so instead of getting it for $42.99, I paid $48.99. I didn't realise until later so now I'm spewing. I guess with the cellar shares it's not too bad but it was just a dumb oversight on my part.

Anyway, back to topic, I still buy the Bin 28 in good years too although in both cases I'm down to buying a six pack whereas 96 for the 389 was three dozen and the 98 was 18 bottles.

Hadn't bought much Bin 407 for a while but did buy some 05 and might get a six pack of the 06. In this category there is a lot of competition and as said by everyone else, the Majella at around $26 from Auswine is very strong competition as is the Wynns black label. Woodlands is also in contention as well as some of the mid range margaret rivers like Voyager (although that's now creeping up in price too).

Never really bought much of the Bin 128 for some reason.

At the prices I saw the bin range at today in Sydney, (28 & 128 $23, 407 $33, 389 $40) they aren't too outrageous but I suspect those prices are really at the bottom end of the discount range. The RRPs are completely unrealistic but then so are many other RRPs which very few of us here would ever pay.

I guess if you want some, get in while they are 'cheap'.

I'll keep buying, at the right price but no more than six-packs.

Rather interesting subject which prompted me to check my stock of Pennies: -
1996 = 82
1997 = 21
1998 = 126 got suckered in with the hype surrounding that vintage
1999 = 15
2000 = 30
Total 1996-2000 = 274 (probably drank that number over time)

2001 = 0 gave that vintage a miss
2002 = 30 (incl 6x389 Mag's @ $56 from DM)
2003 = 20
2004 = 18
2005 = 10
Total 2001-2005 = 78
That's across the Bin range to Grange.

Signature at $32 ($65 Mag's in pres box) has replaced 389. A six pack of the 389 & St Henri looks like my Pennie purchases for the year, 407 possible.

Balgownie Estate has been one of our major buys over recent years (post 2000, 160 latest count) to an extent where they now represent about 10% of my total stock - unhealthy situation. But how does one resist when available at the "right" price?? Not talking about the Goldfields Shiraz.

However, I have no complaints at all about the 96 & 98 Bin 28's and 98 Bin 128 which were intended for my daughter's wedding, she threw a spanner in the works and I'm stuck with a hundred left. Tried them over the weekend and much to our delight we have our house-reds-for-the-year-problem resolved. The 98 Bin 28 was a clear winner (4-1) over the 128, five tasters.

Now, if only cost wasn't a factor................

1997 = 21

Im sure there is some sort of state funded assistance for people with such serious problems as these

Old Salt wrote:1998 = 126 got suckered in with the hype surrounding that vintage
.......

Most of the Pennies 98's are still doing fine, What dont you like? I think 389 in 98 is still only outdone by 96 even today.

Im with platinum on the 98 Bin389. I really enjoyed a bottle two xmas' ago and thought it could and probably would get better...

Look forward to Old Salt's view.

jeremy wrote:Im with platinum on the 98 Bin389. I really enjoyed a bottle two xmas' ago and thought it could and probably would get better...

Look forward to Old Salt's view.

Halliday's TN of 2001 reckoned it needed 10 years (from vintage of course) to start "strutting its stuff", gave it a drinking window to 2020. After drinking a bottle at about 5-6 years or so after vintage, I won't open the last bottle until another 4-5 years from now.

Cheers

daz

PS: Incidentally, Halliday bookends the 1996 and 2006 with 95pts each with the rest of the vintages inbetween 94pts, or lower. Jeez, he's always too generous with his ratings isn't he?

Old Salt wrote:I'll keep buying, at the right price but no more than six-packs.

Rather interesting subject which prompted me to check my stock of Pennies: -
1996 = 82
1997 = 21
1998 = 126 got suckered in with the hype surrounding that vintage
1999 = 15
2000 = 30
Total 1996-2000 = 274 (probably drank that number over time)

2001 = 0 gave that vintage a miss
2002 = 30 (incl 6x389 Mag's @ $56 from DM)
2003 = 20
2004 = 18
2005 = 10
Total 2001-2005 = 78
That's across the Bin range to Grange.

Wow, quite a stockpile of pennies...

And if 160 bottles represents 10% of your cellar, pennies represents more than 20%! Now that's brand loyalty!!!

I got suckered into the hype of 1998 as well, and I bought up a case each of the Bin 407, 128, 28, 389 and St. Henri. Must admit though, they are all drinking well, and I don't regret this decision.

I thought the 2001 Bin 128 and 389 were reasonable, and I think I have 3 of each in the cellar. Must say though, since then, I have only bought the 2004 Bin 389.

Monghead.

Grabbed a dozen from Vintage cellars at the weekend, (the bonus shares and a 20% voucher worked out to be a pretty good deal).

Got, 128 (3),138 (3),311 (2),407 (3) & 389 (1)

Nick

platinum wrote:

Old Salt wrote:1998 = 126 got suckered in with the hype surrounding that vintage
.......

Most of the Pennies 98's are still doing fine, What dont you like? I think 389 in 98 is still only outdone by 96 even today.

Not complaining about the quality or regretting it, just that I bought more of 98 than 96.
And the "Brand loyalty" is/came about by right price at the right time; I couldn't resist a bargain in those days. Used to get a case (or two) plus three bottles for sampling over the next few years. Changed that habbit over the last few years, now sticking to six packs.

Another reason for those disproportionate purchases was that I just started getting the bug and didn't think I could go wrong with the better known brands. 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing. And then there is my 29 year old son who wants me to buy more of the 'good stuff', he comes sniffing around my place frequently and helps with the disposal