The Auswine Forum

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Sean wrote:The 2007 Flametree Cabernet Merlot won this year’s JWT.

After a bit of Googling, I found out it’s a $25 wine, a new Margaret River winery and a few people know how good it is already.

A WA wine that won a Gold medal and trophy for Best Red Wine at this year’s Qantas Wine Show as well.

Judges described it as voluminously fragrant, opulent, with a velvety texture and marvellous finish at that show.

So I assume from that it is a finished wine??

Definitely a finished wine, bottled, labelled, indeed, I have it here!

Gavin, two questions:

1. At what price?
2. Have you tried the wine, and what is your opinion?

I must admit, despite being a Sandgroper, to being a little suspicious of the longevity of Margaret River reds - what you see when you taste (and presumably buy) will not still be there in 5 years' time.

Cheers

Allan

Allan, look here for Gavins review:
http://forum.auswine.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=9051

Re Margaret River reds, why should they be different to anywhere else in Aus?
Some reds are made to cellar a long time, most are not. All wines will change over time in the bottle, the trick is to buy the ones that change into something nicer to your palate after cellaring. In some cases 5 years will be an appropriate time to keep a wine, in others it might not be a good stage of development and more years could be needed, in others it might be four years too long.

Like many other areas, MR has a lot of new plantings and a lot of ordinary wine being made, but I know there are plenty of reds made than would seriously contradict your generalisation for many drinkers.

If you don't like the results of cellaring wines, stick to drinking the young stuff.

Hmmm, have been to MR a few times recently, and never heard of them.

Do they have a cellar door?

Yes, up near Dunsborough.
http://www.flametreewines.com/index.php ... ellar-door

Waiters Friend wrote:Gavin, two questions:

1. At what price?
2. Have you tried the wine, and what is your opinion?

I must admit, despite being a Sandgroper, to being a little suspicious of the longevity of Margaret River reds - what you see when you taste (and presumably buy) will not still be there in 5 years' time.

Cheers

Allan

Price $25.00 per bottle, and a bargain at that.

I think it will cellar well, but I think medium term, so 3-5 years or so. Indeed, it needs time now to come together and gel.

That said, I don't think it will fall over any time soon, all the components are there, there is structure and intensity.

I'll certainly be cellaring some (for whatever that's worth).

Flametree is about 5 mins drive from me, I guess I should make the effort !

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Oh dear,

Will the comprehensive list of JWT winners kindly provided by Sean now spark furious debate as to the relative merits of the winning wines, including which were gens, which were duds, and the value of judging one-year-old reds in the first place?

I certainly hope so Let the games begin.

Seriously, I'd be interested to hear from forumites about wines that did go the distance, and met the outrageous expectations placed on them at one-year-old.

Cheers

Allan

Gavin,

Has the rules for the Jimmy Watson Tropy changed, or does the ’07 Flametree Cabernet Merlot just happen to be a year old finished wine?

Allan, one of the most interesting story I heard was about Lindemans' entry in 1985. Apparently they hurriedly put together a wine and entered it into the competition. When the wine unexpectedly won Lindemans had no choice but to market the wine. I don’t know if the Pyrus name was chosen before or after the win.

Looking at the list of JWT winners, it seems that Wolf Blass is one of the few wineries from the early days that have maintained and promoted their trophy winner as a premium wine brand.

Sean, Wolf Blass was also controversial because he was a strong proponent of multi-regional blending. He once said that his best Black Labels always had Langehorn Creek fruit in the blend.

Cheers............Mahmoud.

Mahmoud Ali wrote:Sean, Wolf Blass was also controversial because he was a strong proponent of multi-regional blending. He once said that his best Black Labels always had Langehorn Creek fruit in the blend.

Cheers............Mahmoud.

His main red winemaker until 5 or so years ago, John Glaetzer, has always been a big fan of Langhorne Ck for red grapes. His John's Blend Cabernet is nearly always 100% Langhorne Ck and started back in 1974.

http://www.johnsblend.com.au/about.htm

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Mahmoud Ali wrote:Allan, one of the most interesting story I heard was about Lindemans' entry in 1985. Apparently they hurriedly put together a wine and entered it into the competition. When the wine unexpectedly won Lindemans had no choice but to market the wine. I don’t know if the Pyrus name was chosen before or after the win.

Cheers............Mahmoud.

Hi Mahmoud,

I've heard / read a similar story about the 1985 Pyrus, and I believe the name came after the win, not before.

However, the issue of picking the best one-year-old red suely doesn't equate to longevity or ageworthiness. I was going through Coonawarra in 1995, and bought some 1993 Rouge Homme Richardson's Red Block at CD at a good price. I enjoyed the wine, but it started to fall over after 5 years or so, and in hindsight this wasn't a long-term cellaring proposition. Rouge Homme, of course, didn't claim that it was, but in my youthful naievity, I was disappointed in the end. The weight of expectations was too heavy, and unfair on the wine.

Moral of the story: when considering show results, consider the criteria used to judge the wines in that class.

Cheers

Allan

Waiters Friend wrote:Moral of the story: when considering show results, consider the criteria used to judge the wines in that class.

Cheers

Allan

I wouldn't think the judging criteria are different, it's just that a sample of the best barrel(s) doesn't necessarily translate into the finished product blended from many barrels. A young wine can be very, very good, although only intended for short-term cellaring.
I don't think estimated longevity is an explicit factor in wine show judging criteria.

Brian,

Thanks for reminding me about Glaetzer’s role in Wolf Blass’ red wines and his John’s Blend. I once drank an old bottle that I purchased in Sydney (an ’82 or ’83) and I recently saw a bottle of ’98 in a discount section at a local wine store. They want far too much for it even at the discounted price so I’m giving it a miss.

Sean, perhaps I was a bit unclear about the unfinished wines. You're right, the year-old wines don’t have to be an unfinished wine. But I think it important to realize that a premium wine entered into competition isn't likely to be a finished wine. Hence all the criticism, and Allan's point about longevity and ageworthiness. We have a scenario where the JWT may be either a finished year-old wine that's not likely to cellar very well, or an unfinished premium wine that may not be the same wine that ends up in the bottle. (The barrel samples may be good but its likely they stay in barrels for a bit longer and then perhaps blended). If the JWT winner wasn't meant to be a premium wine it is not likely to be one that cellars well.

Given the prestige surrounding the JWT my guess is that many wineries will continue to enter their unfinished wines into the competition. As for a finished one-year old wine, how many year old bottled wines do you think will last very long in the cellar? Additionally, how many wineries make cellaring wines within the year?

Cheers.....Mahmoud.

Mahmoud Ali wrote:Brian,

Given the prestige surrounding the JWT my guess is that many wineries will continue to enter their unfinished wines into the competition. As for a finished one-year old wine, how many year old bottled wines do you think will last very long in the cellar? Additionally, how many wineries make cellaring wines within the year?

Cheers.....Mahmoud.

Thanks Mahmoud - my point precisely, but more concisely said. I also note Brian's comments about longevity not being a judging criterion.

Cheers

Allan

Officially the 2002 winner was 2001 Rosemount Hill of Gold Cabernet Merlot. Apparently a winery can only enter one wine, so the winning Rosemount wine, which was made in McClaren Vale and they had also entered another wine, was entered by the Rosemount vineyard in Mudgee - Hill of Gold.

I read somewhere at the time that when the winner was announced, the Mudgee winemaker got up on stage to accept the award. The McClaren Vale winemaker then realised that it was actually his wine that had won and there was a bit of a fraccas on the stage.

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This picked up a gold in Canberra at the National Wine Show too.