The Auswine Forum

Good morning,

In about 12 days (but who's counting?) I disappear to South East Asia, where I'll be spending the following four months meandering through Singapore, Malaysia (both Peninsula and Malaysian Borneo), Laos, and Thailand.

Since I'm not really in to the typical 20 something backpacker crowd activities of constant beer consumption, elephant rides on unhappy elephants, and all the touristy crap (at least, not all the time anyway!) I'm trying to focus the trip on food and avoiding the huge Khao San type tourist traps.

As such, I'm looking for suggestions from people as to the highlights of South East Asian wine. I know there are some wineries in Thailand, and I'd like to visit some, but really have no idea where they are or which ones are worth visiting.

I know there are some decent wine shops around the place, and due to the French influence there is, from all accounts, one of South East Asia's better wine shops in Vientiane. Hopefully it won't be too difficult to hunt down a good bottle of Clare riesling to enjoy whilst eating dinner at a restaurant overlooking the Mekong... that would be pretty special.

I've found this website - http://www.thaiwine.org/ - which has some good information and links to wineries, but I guess I'm looking for some insight from people who have been there and done that... unless I'm the first, in which case I'm happy to report my findings here!

So, any suggestions of places to go and things to see, or where to avoid?

Cheers!

Try Chateau de Loei, near Loei. I have not been there but have tasted their wines and both the chenin blanc and the shiraz were surprisingly good. They employ Dorham Mann as consultant so they should get the chenin right at least.

Try this link for a review if you are interested http://www.winestate.com.au/magazine/ar ... icleno=326

Steve, I've been to Thailand numerous times, but we tend to take our own wine or drink our Thai friends Aus wine. I do hear the Thai wines are getting better, but so far I've only tried one red and it wasn't memorable. The fact that the Thai wine bottles sit out in the sun at roadside stalls in many places doesn't instill confidence in them either.

There is an increasing range of wine available in Thailand in many area now and in tourist areas (you can still avoid touristy things in these areas if you know where to look and/or find the right local guide) the small and large supermarkets will have a range and there might be a dedicated wine shop or two. Part of the price of development and progress, but this July on Koh Samui we found two new dedicated wine stores that were not there the year before.

The range of wines is pretty eclectic, some French, Spanish, Italian, St American and Australian, range tends to be small. Prices on Aus wines are fairly reasonable (ie 15-50% more than Aus RRP) given the tax regime, partly due to concessions under the Thai-Aus free trade agreement, but most restaurants seem to have kept the difference for themselves.

Many small restaurants keep a limited range of wines, but by the look of the vintages and storage conditions I would be pretty wary. BYO is an option in most places, even some resort restaurants, prices range from zero to 500Bt a bottle.

If you are chasing the real local food then your wine options may be a bit limited at times, I tend to drink Singha if I can't find anything I like on the small wine list or where wine isn't offered.

If you want some specific details on Thailand, post some specific questions or PM/email me.

Of the other countries, I've only been to KL in Malaysia, wine was pretty easy to find there. Singapore has plenty of wine options, all of them expensive as far as I could see. We saw a swag of d'Arenberg wines in a wine fridge in one small restaurant in Siem Reap, wine is fairly easy to find in Cambodia, but again pretty expensive for what you get.

Davo wrote:Try Chateau de Loei, near Loei. I have not been there but have tasted their wines and both the chenin blanc and the shiraz were surprisingly good. They employ Dorham Mann as consultant so they should get the chenin right at least.

Try this link for a review if you are interested http://www.winestate.com.au/magazine/ar ... icleno=326

"The two most popular wines of Chateau de Loei are a 2003 chenin blanc, crisp and tangy, with a refreshing acidity which imparts a lovely flintiness, and a 2003 syrah, a mouthful of ripe red berry fruit with peppery, spicy flavour and a soft texture. Both these wines complement Thai food."

It is surprising how many cabernet-based wines are on offer in Thai restuarants, most of them don't go nearly as well as shiraz with Thai food.

Sounds like a great trip, and wish I could do it again soon!

First of all, good luck - wine is hard to find in many SE Asia countries, especially those with a high proportion of groups who don't like alcohol for religious reasons (e.g., Muslims, Hindi). I was just in Malaysia (including Sarawak) earlier this year for a month, and the only reasonable selection of wine was in KL. There was a couple of OK wines in Kuching, but even more overpriced than the mainland, which is saying something. The supermarkets are the easiest places to go. I tried to find a specialty wine store in KL, but they are really out of the way - at least, from where I was staying (near the towers). Thje wine store in Kuching was very hot and very expensive - I stayed with the supermarkets.

The selection is pretty well all Oz and Kiwi wines, with a smattering of Chilean and French wine. The best option for me, given the constant heat and humidity, was NZ sauvignon blanc. They had 2007 Kim Crawford for about $25 Australian, and several others from between $25-35. Another wine I found, to my surprise, was the Mt Pleasant Elizabeth 2002, at around $35. I found these at the supermarkets in the mall right underneath the Petronas Towers (one at the lower level, one on the third floor I think).

Thailand isn't so bad, but again only the bigger cities will have any selection, and heat damage is common. Prices are high again (as everywhere in SE Asia, except maybe Hong Kong now). In India I didn't drink alcohol for 2 months - a good chance to detoxify! There were a couple of reasonable wine stores in Singapore, and supermarkets had basic selections as well. The fancier the supermarket, the better the selection (that goes almost everywhere). I don't really miss wine in some of these SE Asian countries, as it seems so foreign a concept in many cultures. But a cold NZ savvy after a hot days hike in the jungle is pretty sweet!

I love hiking, so I'd recommend going to Taman Negara in Malasyia. I'd go to at least one of the islands off the east coast too. If you're busing from Singapore to KL, I'd go via Malacca, which deserves a stop for a couple of days. There's a nice restaurant right on the river near the main town square (on the other side of the river, just down the first road). They serve French style food, and have an OK wine list.

Sarawak was awesome. I stayed almost a week just in Kuching, as there is so much to do for day trips around the city - hiking in Baka National Park is great, we went on an interesting river tour in the lat afternoon from the city to see Irrawaddy dolphins and Proboscis monkeys, the Orangutan sanctuary is interesting, having dinner at the Top Spot market is awesome, and wandering in the villages across the river was great fun. I also enjoyed staying at the Hilton Batang Ai Resort - you could stay there and do day trips from there for the same price or cheaper than a group overnight tour with the tour companies in Kuching. The boat trips up the river were very good - ask them to take you to where no other tours go, and you might be lucky enough to have the amazing trip I did there! Three nights is perfect.

If you want any more tips about Malaysia, feel free to send me a pm.

Steve wrote:Good morning,

In about 12 days (but who's counting?) I disappear to South East Asia, where I'll be spending the following four months meandering through Singapore, Malaysia (both Peninsula and Malaysian Borneo), Laos, and Thailand.

Since I'm not really in to the typical 20 something backpacker crowd activities of constant beer consumption, elephant rides on unhappy elephants, and all the touristy crap (at least, not all the time anyway!) I'm trying to focus the trip on food and avoiding the huge Khao San type tourist traps.

As such, I'm looking for suggestions from people as to the highlights of South East Asian wine. I know there are some wineries in Thailand, and I'd like to visit some, but really have no idea where they are or which ones are worth visiting.

I know there are some decent wine shops around the place, and due to the French influence there is, from all accounts, one of South East Asia's better wine shops in Vientiane. Hopefully it won't be too difficult to hunt down a good bottle of Clare riesling to enjoy whilst eating dinner at a restaurant overlooking the Mekong... that would be pretty special.

I've found this website - http://www.thaiwine.org/ - which has some good information and links to wineries, but I guess I'm looking for some insight from people who have been there and done that... unless I'm the first, in which case I'm happy to report my findings here!

So, any suggestions of places to go and things to see, or where to avoid?

Cheers!

If you are in Singapore give me a buzz see if I can give you some tips for where to get authentic local foods (hawker foods) and if you need wines from Australia I will look after you whilst staying here as I import wines mainly from SA and some are sold in Gavin's site.
PM me for my contact detail.

David

I've just come back from Thailand, and I too am not a usual backpacker despite being 20 something. Whilst I can't offer you any winery advice, I can make a few suggestions. Below is a few ideas I sent to a friend on another forum, I know it's not directly relevant, but I hope it helps!

In Bangkok things I would recommend:
1. Grand Palace/Wat Po
A great place to see some Thai culture. This is the second time I've been to the palace, the first was without a tour guide, the second time was with one. I normally abhore tour guides, but having someone telling you the history and meaning of these places really does make the difference.

2. Shopping at MBK
Great prices, great selection, sometimes questionable quality, the shopping at MBK is quite an experience. You can buy clothing, shoes, bags, electronics, DVD's, the lot!

3. Get a suit (or 3) made for you!
I work in an office where I have to wear a suit. I highly recommend getting some made in Bangkok, but be careful where you go. In general, if they promise they can make it overnight, it's going to be shoddy. A good suit needs at least 2, if not 4 fittings. Each time I've been in Thailand I have had great success in terms of quality and value from Emporium Taylors (If you take the MBK to Sukemviet station, walk past the Emporium shopping centre, past a large park with a river and a large gold 'coin' shaped statue, there is a strip of shops. Walk past the pizza shop and you'll see the sign for Emporium Tailors). Ask to see Alvin, and tell him Paul from Australia recommended him. He's made me 4 suits, an overcoat, 6 shirts, and every piece is a masterpiece. (I don't get any commission here, )

In Chiang Mai:
We stayed at two different hotels, as we wanted to see both sides of the city. I would highly recommend both places.
1. Baan Orapin:
A beautiful bed and breakfast located near Wat Gate, beyond the river, about a 10 minute tuk-tuk ride from the centre of the Old City. It's run by a thai couple and feels like you're living in a thai house. The setting is gorgeous, the facilities immaculate, and the breakfasts amazing!
www.baanorapin.com

2. Kantary Hills:
A great little services apartment on the opposite side of town. It was opened early this year, so everything is new, the service is great and the rooms are lovely. We got a great rate for them through octopus travel

To do:
1. A Lot Of Thai cooking school
A great little operation run by Yui and her husband. I've been to other cooking schools (e.g. SITCA on Koh Samui) and it didn't come close to how great this little business is. I have actually been able to replicate the recipes at home, which is saying something! Plus, it only costs approx $30/day to do, so you really can't lose!

2. Patara Elephant Farm
This is pricey, so you may not be able to squeeze it in, depending on your budget. Basically the Patara elephant farm rescue elephants from situations such as circuses, or even those just living in cities owned by people who make money from them. They rehabilitate them, and let you take part in this. Our day involved meeting and feeding an elephant, cleaning, then bathing it, learning to ride the elephant bare-back (so as not to hurt the elephant with seats/platforms) etc. It was slightly surreal to be riding around on an elephant's head, but a whole lot of fun, and certainly felt a lot better than those 'elephant villages' where they force the elephants to perform shows and wear huge uncomfortable platforms!.

3. Live music at the riverside
When staying at Baan Orapin, the riverside restaurant scene is only about a 5 minute walk away. You have your choice of Jazz (at the Gallery), Blues (at the R&B bar), and Modern Pop/Rock covers (Good View and Riverside restaurants), and it's all really great music! Plus the food is pretty great too

Have a great trip Steve.

Last Friday I gave Steve the challenge of letting us know the most unusual dish he had while eating through SE Asia. Hoping for Exploding Toad.

See ya when you get back.

PaulG wrote:To do:
1. A Lot Of Thai cooking school
A great little operation run by Yui and her husband. I've been to other cooking schools (e.g. SITCA on Koh Samui) and it didn't come close to how great this little business is. I have actually been able to replicate the recipes at home, which is saying something! Plus, it only costs approx $30/day to do, so you really can't lose!

SITCA is good if you pick the right days/menus, but very expensive compared to the cooking schools in Chiang Mai.

We went to this one a few years ago:
http://www.thaicookeryschool.com/

Also in Chiang Mai, you have to try the northern-style sausage available at the markets and roadside stalls, freshly cooked on little barbecues, not chilli-hot, but very spicy and fragrant.

For lunch in the old city, Huen Phen is not far from the cooking school above, they have a lot of northern-style specialties, reasonably priced, we went back twice on our last visit to Chiang Mai.

The night markets in Chiang Mai are pretty good fun too, amongst the usual junk there are some good clothing buys and some good local craft products too.

There is good food to be had everywhere in Thailand, or at least everywhere we have been. We did have a big advantage when we were starting out, with Thai friends to show us the things to look for and avoid, now we are happy to eat just about anywhere we can see the food, if it looks good and smells good you can be fairly sure it will taste good, even if the meat may be gristly or chewy or the fish from the muddy river nearby. Just avoid the uncooked vegetables and ice in drinks in most places off the tourist haunts and even in some of those. Unfortunately one visit to try real Thai food will ruin the experience of most Aus Thai restaurants for you, until you can find one who will do authentically and even then there is so much that just isn't available in Australia.

David wrote:Have a great trip Steve.

Last Friday I gave Steve the challenge of letting us know the most unusual dish he had while eating through SE Asia. Hoping for Exploding Toad.

See ya when you get back.

As long as it isn't stir-fried dog. Or anything that contains too many live things you don't want in your gut. Take a supply of antibiotics just in case. Also Stemetil/Lomotil or equivalents.

Steve, are you travelling alone or with others? With a small group you can try a lot more different dishes than you can on your own, although in some places you can easily afford to buy more than you can eat to try the different offerings.

Steve

I spend about 4 weeks a year in Sabah ( Malaysian Borneo ). Duty Free has a good selection of ST Henri & 389 at Oz prices.

There is a great wine shop in a supermarket on the northern side of town. Lots of wine and if the AUD is strong OK relative pricing.

Sabah highlights are many. Jungles, beaches, hiking, wildlife- some very sad Australian history too if you are around ANZAC day.

Wow... what a response. Thanks, guys! Sorry it's taken so long to respond... I've been fairly busy. the departure date has snuck up on me and I have a stack of stuff to do still...

Davo wrote:Try Chateau de Loei, near Loei. I have not been there but have tasted their wines and both the chenin blanc and the shiraz were surprisingly good. They employ Dorham Mann as consultant so they should get the chenin right at least.

Try this link for a review if you are interested http://www.winestate.com.au/magazine/ar ... icleno=326

I think that's the article that I read years ago that I've been thinking about ever since. Thanks for the link, and the tip about Loei... I'll be passing through north east Thailand on my way to or from Laos (depending on which way I decide to attack it) and I'll try to visit... we'll see...

Red Bigot wrote:Steve, I've been to Thailand numerous times, but we tend to take our own wine or drink our Thai friends Aus wine. I do hear the Thai wines are getting better, but so far I've only tried one red and it wasn't memorable. The fact that the Thai wine bottles sit out in the sun at roadside stalls in many places doesn't instill confidence in them either.

There is an increasing range of wine available in Thailand in many area now and in tourist areas (you can still avoid touristy things in these areas if you know where to look and/or find the right local guide) the small and large supermarkets will have a range and there might be a dedicated wine shop or two. Part of the price of development and progress, but this July on Koh Samui we found two new dedicated wine stores that were not there the year before.

The range of wines is pretty eclectic, some French, Spanish, Italian, St American and Australian, range tends to be small. Prices on Aus wines are fairly reasonable (ie 15-50% more than Aus RRP) given the tax regime, partly due to concessions under the Thai-Aus free trade agreement, but most restaurants seem to have kept the difference for themselves.

Many small restaurants keep a limited range of wines, but by the look of the vintages and storage conditions I would be pretty wary. BYO is an option in most places, even some resort restaurants, prices range from zero to 500Bt a bottle.

If you are chasing the real local food then your wine options may be a bit limited at times, I tend to drink Singha if I can't find anything I like on the small wine list or where wine isn't offered.

If you want some specific details on Thailand, post some specific questions or PM/email me.

Of the other countries, I've only been to KL in Malaysia, wine was pretty easy to find there. Singapore has plenty of wine options, all of them expensive as far as I could see. We saw a swag of d'Arenberg wines in a wine fridge in one small restaurant in Siem Reap, wine is fairly easy to find in Cambodia, but again pretty expensive for what you get.

Red Bigot wrote:

David wrote:Have a great trip Steve.

Last Friday I gave Steve the challenge of letting us know the most unusual dish he had while eating through SE Asia. Hoping for Exploding Toad.

See ya when you get back.

As long as it isn't stir-fried dog. Or anything that contains too many live things you don't want in your gut. Take a supply of antibiotics just in case. Also Stemetil/Lomotil or equivalents.

Steve, are you travelling alone or with others? With a small group you can try a lot more different dishes than you can on your own, although in some places you can easily afford to buy more than you can eat to try the different offerings.

Wow, thanks. I mainly just want to visit a Thai winery just to say that I've done it... and who knows, maybe if I return in a few years and go back I'll be able to notice an improvement. I'm definitely not doing it for the quality of produce...

In small restaurants I'd probably just go for beer - but it's good to know BYO or some wine is available. There's something about associating a bunch of flavours or sounds with being somewhere or doing something - and beer doesn't associate itself with anything for me.

I'll be chasing the local food as much as possible - so I'll be drinking a lot of beer but also a lot of stuff without alcohol.

Regarding the anti getting sick stuff, I've spent a ton of money (about $1500!) on vaccinations and various drugs to keep me healthy and free of nasties - everything from cholera to malaria to hepatitis boosters and other stuff. I'll have more drugs than guide books!

I'll be by myself mostly, though I'll be meeting friends in Singapore and KL... maybe in Laos, but probably not. I'll be staying at backpacker type places, though, so meeting people and forming a group isn't going to be too hard... I hope.

JDSJDS wrote:Sounds like a great trip, and wish I could do it again soon!

First of all, good luck - wine is hard to find in many SE Asia countries, especially those with a high proportion of groups who don't like alcohol for religious reasons (e.g., Muslims, Hindi). I was just in Malaysia (including Sarawak) earlier this year for a month, and the only reasonable selection of wine was in KL. There was a couple of OK wines in Kuching, but even more overpriced than the mainland, which is saying something. The supermarkets are the easiest places to go. I tried to find a specialty wine store in KL, but they are really out of the way - at least, from where I was staying (near the towers). Thje wine store in Kuching was very hot and very expensive - I stayed with the supermarkets.

The selection is pretty well all Oz and Kiwi wines, with a smattering of Chilean and French wine. The best option for me, given the constant heat and humidity, was NZ sauvignon blanc. They had 2007 Kim Crawford for about $25 Australian, and several others from between $25-35. Another wine I found, to my surprise, was the Mt Pleasant Elizabeth 2002, at around $35. I found these at the supermarkets in the mall right underneath the Petronas Towers (one at the lower level, one on the third floor I think).

Thailand isn't so bad, but again only the bigger cities will have any selection, and heat damage is common. Prices are high again (as everywhere in SE Asia, except maybe Hong Kong now). In India I didn't drink alcohol for 2 months - a good chance to detoxify! There were a couple of reasonable wine stores in Singapore, and supermarkets had basic selections as well. The fancier the supermarket, the better the selection (that goes almost everywhere). I don't really miss wine in some of these SE Asian countries, as it seems so foreign a concept in many cultures. But a cold NZ savvy after a hot days hike in the jungle is pretty sweet!

I love hiking, so I'd recommend going to Taman Negara in Malasyia. I'd go to at least one of the islands off the east coast too. If you're busing from Singapore to KL, I'd go via Malacca, which deserves a stop for a couple of days. There's a nice restaurant right on the river near the main town square (on the other side of the river, just down the first road). They serve French style food, and have an OK wine list.

Sarawak was awesome. I stayed almost a week just in Kuching, as there is so much to do for day trips around the city - hiking in Baka National Park is great, we went on an interesting river tour in the lat afternoon from the city to see Irrawaddy dolphins and Proboscis monkeys, the Orangutan sanctuary is interesting, having dinner at the Top Spot market is awesome, and wandering in the villages across the river was great fun. I also enjoyed staying at the Hilton Batang Ai Resort - you could stay there and do day trips from there for the same price or cheaper than a group overnight tour with the tour companies in Kuching. The boat trips up the river were very good - ask them to take you to where no other tours go, and you might be lucky enough to have the amazing trip I did there! Three nights is perfect.

If you want any more tips about Malaysia, feel free to send me a pm.

Many years ago when I was about 16 I spent a month in Malaysia and didn't have a problem finding alcohol, but that was mostly in supermarkets and department stores rather than dedicated boozeries. I'm fairly sure wine will be a rarity for me - I'll mostly drink beer - but it's nice to know it's around if I'm prepared to hunt it down and pay for it.

In Malaysia, I'll be heading to KL from Singapore but won't get a chance to go via Malacca this time - hopefully on my way back from Thailand. I'm only planning a few days in Kuching before heading upriver to Belaga and spending a few days with a guide wandering around in the jungles between longhouse communities, then heading to Miri and using Gunung Mulu as both a destination for a few days and a transit point between Miri and Kota Kinabalu. I'll have just over a week in Sabah and plan to do Mt. Kinabalu and also visit Sandakan and either Sipadan or the place with the turtles with a name that escapes me at the moment. I definitely want to see some orang utans in the wild, and I think the best place to do this is outside Kuching... but I'll find out when I'm there I guess.

From Kota Kinabalu I'll fly to Kota Bharu, head to Taman Negara via the Jungle Railway, spend a day or two there then head to the Cameron Highlands and eventually on to Penang for a while, before either flying or getting a train to Bangkok for a few days before heading to Laos...

Thanks for the advice about Sarawak. I'm really looking forward to it... my doing-it-on-the-cheap budget of averaging $US70 per day over the entire 4 months won't extend to the Hilton but there's loads of good backpacker places and guest houses and midrange hotels that will be OK for my wallet... leaving more money for the fun stuff!

vinx wrote:If you are in Singapore give me a buzz see if I can give you some tips for where to get authentic local foods (hawker foods) and if you need wines from Australia I will look after you whilst staying here as I import wines mainly from SA and some are sold in Gavin's site.
PM me for my contact detail.

David

G'day David,

I probably won't get a chance to get in touch but I'll see what I can do... I have vague plans for my 6 days (well, 5 - I arrive in the evening). I'm meeting a mate in Singapore and he's as much of a food nerd as I am so we're planning to do a Makansutra tour - are you familiar with them, and if you are... are they any good?

I've been reading a lot about the Singapore food (in general) at http://ieatishootipost.sg/. The food looks great, and I can't think of much better than proper hawker food and a cold beer in Singapore... oh yeah.

Thanks for the offer, and like I said I'll see what I can do about getting in touch for some tips.

PaulG wrote:Lots of text!

Thanks Paul... more useful information!

I'm not much of a shopper (more stuff to carry around - I'm only taking a 45 litre bag) so that eliminates the purchase of suits and so on, unless I ship them home - which I may do. Worth thinking about, anyway.

I haven't really thought about Thailand too much yet, so thanks for the links and information about good stuff in Chiang Mai. I'll check it out.

I definitely want to do a cooking class somewhere, but I'll suss that out later - I'm not going to be in Thailand until late December.

David wrote:Have a great trip Steve.

Last Friday I gave Steve the challenge of letting us know the most unusual dish he had while eating through SE Asia. Hoping for Exploding Toad.

See ya when you get back.

Thanks, David - and thanks for last Friday, too.

Regarding the exploding toad... let's hope I hunt one down. My camera does video

JamieBahrain wrote:Steve

I spend about 4 weeks a year in Sabah ( Malaysian Borneo ). Duty Free has a good selection of ST Henri & 389 at Oz prices.

There is a great wine shop in a supermarket on the northern side of town. Lots of wine and if the AUD is strong OK relative pricing.

Sabah highlights are many. Jungles, beaches, hiking, wildlife- some very sad Australian history too if you are around ANZAC day.

Cheers Jamie. I'll hunt down the supermarket and the wine... I'll be coming from a jungle adventure in Sarawak so I'll probably be a bit sick of tuak and beer and be craving some decent wine...!

I'm planning to check out Sandakan and some of the significant sites for Australians - fairly morbid, but definitely something that needs to be done.

Steve

The supermarket is in Kota Kinabalu. I am not sure about Kuching.

Since you are going to Sandakan, a pleasant dining event is the English Tea House next to Agnus Keith's house. Wine is expensive. Agnus Keith's books are a good read too.

On the death marches, Sandakan memorial is well preserved but if you are going to Mt Kinabalu go to the village of Ranau, there is a small church on the road to Sandakan, where a memorial stands pretty much where the marches ended- and the survivors executed two weeks after the end of WW2.