What was the most over-rated wine you had in 2003?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:20 pm
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What was the most over-rated wine you had in 2003?
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:40 pm
98 Grant Burge Shandrach C/S - Very thin and loose for a Barossa Cabernet in a super vintage.
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:48 pm
Hi Sean
Interesting your take on the Traditional. I have had several and all have been great.
There seems to be more bottle variation to be found in recent years. I read Brian's report on the 98's and noted the Black Label Metala and his impressions.
They reflect mine exactly and I think that I may have said so in a weekly "what did you drink this week". The bottle I opened in the early part of the year was black and it filled the room with it's aromas 30 minutes after opening. A bottle more recently was more subdued on the nose but still great drinking with lots of time to go. I even sourced some more to replace the sampled bottles.
I was going to put the Thorn Clarke Quartage in my top 10 but found some at a bottle shop last week and instead of drinking from my cellared stock, opened the new one. Really different again from the original tastings.
What is the answer?
Are more wines like rieslings with peeks and troughs?
Are retailers leaving cartons of wine where they can be heat or otherwise affected?
Obviously all wines which are bottled in a particular label are not from the same vat so is there a difference in vats that is not being picked up at bottling.
One thing I can be sure of is that at the end of this thread there is going to be one hell of a list of wines to drink that will not cost an arm and a leg and give many hours of pleasure to those of us twisted this way.
Graham
Interesting your take on the Traditional. I have had several and all have been great.
There seems to be more bottle variation to be found in recent years. I read Brian's report on the 98's and noted the Black Label Metala and his impressions.
They reflect mine exactly and I think that I may have said so in a weekly "what did you drink this week". The bottle I opened in the early part of the year was black and it filled the room with it's aromas 30 minutes after opening. A bottle more recently was more subdued on the nose but still great drinking with lots of time to go. I even sourced some more to replace the sampled bottles.
I was going to put the Thorn Clarke Quartage in my top 10 but found some at a bottle shop last week and instead of drinking from my cellared stock, opened the new one. Really different again from the original tastings.
What is the answer?
Are more wines like rieslings with peeks and troughs?
Are retailers leaving cartons of wine where they can be heat or otherwise affected?
Obviously all wines which are bottled in a particular label are not from the same vat so is there a difference in vats that is not being picked up at bottling.
One thing I can be sure of is that at the end of this thread there is going to be one hell of a list of wines to drink that will not cost an arm and a leg and give many hours of pleasure to those of us twisted this way.
Graham
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 1:55 pm
A list of my top ten "over-rated" wines for 2003
Torbreck Run Rig 1998- falling apart
Guigal Hermitage 1998- yuk
Graveyard 2000- the Emperor's clothes??
Cos d'Estournel 1982- I have now had one good bottle in nine tries.
Mount Mary 1995- returned to the sommelier, who agreed the wine was not faulty, and admitted we were the third customers in the past three months to refuse to drink the wine.
Torbreck Juveniles- of any vintage. Get your hand off it.
Bin 389 1990- sorry. I just can't see what the fuss is about.
Grosset Polish Hill 1997- after a great start, going nowhere, like a lot of the 97 rieslings.
Tasmanian pinots from 2000- the "wunder" vintage isn't.
Jim Barry "Armagh" 1993. I have to (reluctantly) agree with JO on this- yuk!!
Torbreck Run Rig 1998- falling apart
Guigal Hermitage 1998- yuk
Graveyard 2000- the Emperor's clothes??
Cos d'Estournel 1982- I have now had one good bottle in nine tries.
Mount Mary 1995- returned to the sommelier, who agreed the wine was not faulty, and admitted we were the third customers in the past three months to refuse to drink the wine.
Torbreck Juveniles- of any vintage. Get your hand off it.
Bin 389 1990- sorry. I just can't see what the fuss is about.
Grosset Polish Hill 1997- after a great start, going nowhere, like a lot of the 97 rieslings.
Tasmanian pinots from 2000- the "wunder" vintage isn't.
Jim Barry "Armagh" 1993. I have to (reluctantly) agree with JO on this- yuk!!
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:09 pm
Definately the entire range of Marquis Philips wines - Liked them when first released and then they went downhill. Don't know if it was my chaning tastes or the wine itself.
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:34 pm
AJ - was the Mount Mary the pinot or Quintet pls?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:44 pm
It was the quintet. VERY light-bodied, with little intensity to back it up. 1995 wasn't a great year in the Yarra Valley, but on the other hand plenty of good wines were made. Haven't bothered to check up the critics views on this wine- should be pretty interesting!
I would have liked to put in the Condada di Haza line from Alexandro Fernandez, but they are pretty cheap and therefore may not be that over-rated.
I would have liked to put in the Condada di Haza line from Alexandro Fernandez, but they are pretty cheap and therefore may not be that over-rated.
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:27 pm
No - I have the winner - 2001 Rosemount Giants Creek Chardonnay - rated this and that - 5 stars here - 90 something there - Wine of the whatever, etc...
It was so amazingly disappointing I bought 3 bottles from different loactions because I did not think it could be so bad with such great reviews.
... and I love Hunter (Lower & Upper) Chardonnay!
It was so amazingly disappointing I bought 3 bottles from different loactions because I did not think it could be so bad with such great reviews.
... and I love Hunter (Lower & Upper) Chardonnay!
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:29 pm
Aussie Johns wrote: Graveyard 2000- the Emperor's clothes??
My bottle was pretty ordinary but I put it down to bad retailer storage.
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:01 pm
Aussie Johns,
that's a big stick you're taking!
Obviously you're trying an interesting lot of wine but what deficinecies do you see in some of those wines...many that get favourable reports? Is it a personal palate issue or are they faulty or lacking in the characters you like?
that's a big stick you're taking!
Obviously you're trying an interesting lot of wine but what deficinecies do you see in some of those wines...many that get favourable reports? Is it a personal palate issue or are they faulty or lacking in the characters you like?
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:01 pm
Aussie Johns,
that's a big stick you're taking!
Obviously you're trying an interesting lot of wine but what deficinecies do you see in some of those wines...many that get favourable reports? Is it a personal palate issue or are they faulty or lacking in the characters you like?
that's a big stick you're taking!
Obviously you're trying an interesting lot of wine but what deficinecies do you see in some of those wines...many that get favourable reports? Is it a personal palate issue or are they faulty or lacking in the characters you like?
Aussie Johns
Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:48 am
The thread is over-rated wines, not necessarily bad wines. Whilst some I named were just plain bad, others did not live up to expectation: the Cos, Graveyard and the Bin 389 are in this category- I was expecting a lot better. The Cos is a really frustrating wine, at its best magnificent, but so much bottle variation!!!
So many people rave over the 1990 389 and 2000 Graveyard, but I would have put both in the mid-80's at best.
So many people rave over the 1990 389 and 2000 Graveyard, but I would have put both in the mid-80's at best.
Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:32 pm
Mt Mary 1996 - underfruited. If this aspired to be a Bordeaux, at best a Cru Bourgeois on an average vintage.
A$tralis 1999 - My 1st and only vintage of A$tralis. Too much hyped. Where is the muscle?
Cullen 2000 - an OK wine but doesnt worth the admission price. No finishing, receeded. The 2001 DM is a different story.
O'Bastard 2000 - Ugly Label, weak wine. Can't even beat the 98,99,01,02 Stonehorse($ beside the point)
JJ Hahn "1914/1928" 2001 - Hopelessly dissapointed. Down performed the average 1999 vintage.
Trevor Jones Wild Witch 1999 - I valued the bottle more than the content inside. Now the empty bt. is sitting pretty as a vase
and more...(scratching my head, lousy memory result of too much alc.)
A$tralis 1999 - My 1st and only vintage of A$tralis. Too much hyped. Where is the muscle?
Cullen 2000 - an OK wine but doesnt worth the admission price. No finishing, receeded. The 2001 DM is a different story.
O'Bastard 2000 - Ugly Label, weak wine. Can't even beat the 98,99,01,02 Stonehorse($ beside the point)
JJ Hahn "1914/1928" 2001 - Hopelessly dissapointed. Down performed the average 1999 vintage.
Trevor Jones Wild Witch 1999 - I valued the bottle more than the content inside. Now the empty bt. is sitting pretty as a vase
and more...(scratching my head, lousy memory result of too much alc.)
Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:59 am
Aussie Johns wrote:A list of my top ten "over-rated" wines for 2003
Torbreck Run Rig 1998- falling apart
Guigal Hermitage 1998- yuk
Graveyard 2000- the Emperor's clothes??
Cos d'Estournel 1982- I have now had one good bottle in nine tries.
Mount Mary 1995- returned to the sommelier, who agreed the wine was not faulty, and admitted we were the third customers in the past three months to refuse to drink the wine.
Torbreck Juveniles- of any vintage. Get your hand off it.
Bin 389 1990- sorry. I just can't see what the fuss is about.
Grosset Polish Hill 1997- after a great start, going nowhere, like a lot of the 97 rieslings.
Tasmanian pinots from 2000- the "wunder" vintage isn't.
Jim Barry "Armagh" 1993. I have to (reluctantly) agree with JO on this- yuk!!
each to their own,
the 1998 torbreck run rig is very far from falling apart. A bottle in good condition is falling apart the same way grange 1998 is.
Re: What was the most over-rated wine you had in 2003?
Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Sean wrote:I'm nominating the Rosemount Trad 01 (sorry Graham B, et al). Better known as the Jimmy Watson Trophy winner. I have tried a number of btls so far. Generally, I found it tannic & astringent. No fruit. The last one I tried I took back to the retailer & swapped for a Seppelt Barossa Cab Sav. Ironically, a btl sent to me from Southcorp had an American back label - including the US Surgeon General's health warning!
I have tried three of these and all were deep and dark except for the last one, which I tried about three weeks ago. Very disappointing, oxidised, I'm sure!!
But my all time over-rated (but I'm sure not by anyone in Australia - or anywhere except for France for that matter) would have to be the Beaujolais Nouveau. Okay, nobody promises anything really, but I would have to say (after tasting quite a few over the last two weeks) that it is the most unpleasant bag of onion-skin swill, that wouldn't even dare show it's face in a cask, back in Australia. shouldn't even be sold, what a fraud, Southcorp look good by comparison.
Letting go now,
Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 10:59 am
deleted
Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 8:33 am
[quote="Aussie Johns"]A list of my top ten "over-rated" wines for 2003
Graveyard 2000- the Emperor's clothes??
I must say that the Graveyard 2000 Shiraz is definitely overpriced at AU $99, it should have been priced $30 and it is an average wine at that. However the 2001 Brokenwood Rayner Shiraz is delicious.
Cheers,
Attila
Graveyard 2000- the Emperor's clothes??
I must say that the Graveyard 2000 Shiraz is definitely overpriced at AU $99, it should have been priced $30 and it is an average wine at that. However the 2001 Brokenwood Rayner Shiraz is delicious.
Cheers,
Attila
Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:30 pm
Attila,
If u like the Rayner 2001, try their Wade Blk 2 '01(cuttings fr Rayner)
A more hedonistic wine
If u like the Rayner 2001, try their Wade Blk 2 '01(cuttings fr Rayner)
A more hedonistic wine
Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:28 am
Aussie Johns wrote:Torbreck Run Rig 1998- falling apart
Graveyard 2000- the Emperor's clothes??
Disagree strongly on both. For me, the Graveyard 2000 is the best Australian wine made between 2000 and 2003 that I have tasted, red or white. I have had it on 3 occassions and all were exact TNs. Soem people may be put of by a black olive smell but for methis wine is destined for greatness.
98 RunRig i find hard to belive is falling apart - had it in March this year and powerful and completely unready. I wan't a big fan of it (preferred the 99) bit seems very young.
Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 1:11 am
I have to agree with the dissenters on the '98 Run Rig. Had twice in 6 months and both were drunk next to '98 Grange. Torbreck was, by all accounts, on par. A very well refined wine with good architecture. About as far from falling-apart as a wine can get, grapes attached to vines notwithstanding.
JM
JM
Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 1:00 pm
I know it was a tough vintage, but for me the 2000 Mt Edelstone was way below par. Come to think of it, the Henschke's in recent times are a hit and miss proposition - not the consistent stars they use to be.