The Auswine Forum

Just thought I'd mention it ...

Nothing to change my buying patterns ... he obviously rates 2004 over 2005, even for the Bin 389.

Apart from buying some St. Henri 2004 I'll wait and see what people here reckon on the Bin 389 from '05.

Anyone else tried these wines yet?

Cheers -- Jay

Jay

Next week as usual fwdc has a tasting. As usual its over priced so as usual i will wait and try them free some other time. (not getting sucked like you did last year )

I think someone here has tasted the 05 389 already but came up with a different conclusion to the expert opinion of JO 04 vs 05. However that probably says more about the taster than the wine.

Will let you know my thoughts when I taste it. Im hoping I dont like it, will be cheaper that way.

Craig(NZ) wrote:Jay

to the expert opinion of JO 04 vs 05.

That's an interesting description of JO....

Cheers,
Attila

Craig(NZ) wrote:I think someone here has tasted the 05 389 already but came up with a different conclusion to the expert opinion of JO 04 vs 05. However that probably says more about the taster than the wine.

Someone certainly has and this someone reached a similar, but stronger conclusion to JO re 2004 vs 2005 Bin 389.

At the NWS I tasted 3 different bottles of Bin 389 2005 and at the trade tasting day I and some others tried the 2004 and 2005 side by side. We all agreed the 2005 was far superior to the 2004. The judges also agreed on two different bottles, the wines were entered in the same class, were within 3 bottles of each other, the 2005 was awarded Top Gold, the 2004 was not awarded a medal.

So that says a fair bit about quite a few tasters and a little bit about the wines. Try for yourselves, but (for the first time snce 1998 vintage) I have ordered a 6-pack without even waiting for the release tasting. That's how confident I am in my palate.

Attila wrote:

Craig(NZ) wrote:Jay

to the expert opinion of JO 04 vs 05.

That's an interesting description of JO....

Cheers,
Attila

Some, like me, find his opinions on many wines to be quite expert, probably because they agree with ours. I'm willing to forgive his occasional (and usually blindingly obvious to all but himself) blunder for the large amount of value I get from my subscription.

That's how confident I am in my palate.

finally some sanity returns to the world! when buying for oneself it is what you like that is the primary concern. past this anyone elses opinion should be treated as just that.

I liked the 04. i bought the 04 as found it discounted many times. If I like the 05 I will buy it too if i can find it at a good price.

Craig(NZ) wrote:

That's how confident I am in my palate.

finally some sanity returns to the world! when buying for oneself it is what you like that is the primary concern. past this anyone elses opinion should be treated as just that.

Sounds to me like Brian might give it score of at least 100 points...!
cheers,
Graeme

GraemeG wrote:

Craig(NZ) wrote:

That's how confident I am in my palate.

finally some sanity returns to the world! when buying for oneself it is what you like that is the primary concern. past this anyone elses opinion should be treated as just that.

Sounds to me like Brian might give it score of at least 100 points...!
cheers,
Graeme

About 18.5 actually, if I was really pressed to give a score, none of this new-fangled high-point systems rubbish for me. Or in my binary rating system, it's a Buy.

Sounds to me like Brian might give it score of at least 100 points...!
cheers,
Graeme

as it has been said before, to some people a picasso masterpiece is just a painting.

Craig(NZ) wrote:

Sounds to me like Brian might give it score of at least 100 points...!
cheers,
Graeme

as it has been said before, to some people a picasso masterpiece is just a painting.

As a pithy, relevant, clever comeback, that one rates petty low on any scale.

Does anyone know if the releases will have screwcap as an alternative to cork?

Thanks in advance!

Can somebody expose what score St Henri got?

Partagas wrote:Can somebody expose what score St Henri got?

Probably shouldn't quote on this board, as its subscriber only information and probably copyright to JO.

He did like it though, he seemed very impressed.

Hacker wrote:Does anyone know if the releases will have screwcap as an alternative to cork?

Thanks in advance!

** I'm sure they will. The last ones did.

Stuart

Gavin Trott wrote:

Partagas wrote:Can somebody expose what score St Henri got?

Probably shouldn't quote on this board, as its subscriber only information and probably copyright to JO.

He did like it though, he seemed very impressed.

Hi Gav,

I'm pretty sure you can quote a whole bunch of scores without any legal risk (not to say you won't get threats). Publish the actual reviews or even over-generous chunks of them then you have an issue.

Sites like metacritic illustrate what I'm saying (I think).

Cheers -- Jay.

I'll be tasting them tomorrow night. Will let you know my thoughts.

I very much doubt JO will be concerned about a few scores being posted. Most of them have been listed on another e-tailers forum, so they'll be first in line if ther is an issue.

St Henri Shiraz Cabernet Blend 2004 18.9/96, drink 2024-2034

yeah copyright laws usually deal with % of publications or % or sections of publications.

if discussion of a single score was illegal we could close down most wine forums.

i promise not to sue if you quote mine

Thanks for the info.

I thought it was always going to be favourable considering the stock and vintage. Missed buying 03 but back on for a few 04’s I think. Look forward to hearing Maximus's thoughts soon.

Sam

Brian

St Henri 04 has Cab in it? Much? I always thought it was straight shiraz.

Bruce

Brucer wrote:Brian

St Henri 04 has Cab in it? Much? I always thought it was straight shiraz.

Bruce

In some years the cabernet obviously climbs over 15%. 1992 was one, if memory serves, 1994 another. 85% gives a bit of leeway, after all. Wouldn't surprise me if St Henri had a little bit of cabernet most years.
Graeme

Brucer wrote:Brian

St Henri 04 has Cab in it? Much? I always thought it was straight shiraz.

Bruce

Bruce, I don't know, Penfolds web site doesn't have the details on the 2004 up yet. 2003 was 100% Shiraz, 2002 had 9% Cabernet, didn't check any other vintages.

http://www.penfolds.com.au/collection/l ... shiraz.asp

Thanks guys. There is always something to learn, especially as I have been drinking St Henri for years.
Bruce

Copyright is a very tricky issue and the "fair use" doctrine is flexible quoting scores in one situation may be ok but not in another. Here is what I mean.

If a retailer quotes the scores (copyright material) of a heap of wines, the intent is to sell the wines, not to impart information.

If somone asks for the information and those same scores are posted here, that is not fair use as the intent is to gain that information without paying for it.

It is not as silly as it sounds as the copyright has to be protected.

TORB wrote:If somone asks for the information and those same scores are posted here, that is not fair use as the intent is to gain that information without paying for it.
It is not as silly as it sounds as the copyright has to be protected.

Nah, I reckon it is as silly as it sounds.
Oliver (or whomever) has written, say, a 50-word tasting note. And a two digit score (3 if it's really, really, good). All Brian has posted that's copyright that I can see is the score. One 2-digit character only out of 50 words. That's 2% of the 'material' at best, less if you're counting individual letters! Intent is irrelevant. Anytime someone quotes from copyright material - whether fair use or not - it's to impart information.

Everyone spends all their time arguing how it's the TN that's so important and the score is only an adjunct. Yet, if someone posts a mere list of scores - the reaction rather suggests that nearly all the value of the TN seems to lie in that seductive little number at the end...

Graeme

Maximus wrote:I'll be tasting them tomorrow night. Will let you know my thoughts.

Hmm, I don't get to taste them until Thursday.

I see my local supermarket ditching the 04 Bin 389 again, this time for $25.99. Thought about buying some more but ive really got enough already from previous discounted by ups and its gonna be an expensive month with te mata and pegasus bay orders to make.

those kiwis that want to know where, drop me a pm

Call me a snob or a biased kiwi but for me March 1st is all about Te Mata, Penfolds Bins are a yawn in comparison

Jay60A wrote:Just thought I'd mention it ...

Nothing to change my buying patterns ... he obviously rates 2004 over 2005, even for the Bin 389.

Apart from buying some St. Henri 2004 I'll wait and see what people here reckon on the Bin 389 from '05.

Anyone else tried these wines yet?

Cheers -- Jay

After trying the Bin range last night I have to say I'm in JO's corner at this stage.

The 05s are very different wines, and those seduced by the fruit-forward styles of the 04s could be in for a bit of a shock - these are all about acid, power and extract at this early stage and in direct comparison they're pretty austere (with the exception of the 407). I can already see this discussion turning into the old 90 vs 91 argument all over again.

I'll try and put up some TNs as soon as I get the time to type them up.

Cheers,
Ian

Ps. They also mentioned last night the days of the heavy discounting of Penfolds at the big two grocers in Australia are over with the reduced allocations of the 05s - it will be interesting to see if that actually happens, and if the public are willing to buy up on these at the full price.

n4sir wrote:After trying the Bin range last night I have to say I'm in JO's corner at this stage.

The 05s are very different wines, and those seduced by the fruit-forward styles of the 04s could be in for a bit of a shock - these are all about acid, power and extract at this early stage and in direct comparison they're pretty austere (with the exception of the 407). I can already see this discussion turning into the old 90 vs 91 argument all over again.

I'll try and put up some TNs as soon as I get the time to type them up.

Cheers,
Ian

Ps. They also mentioned last night the days of the heavy discounting of Penfolds at the big two grocers in Australia are over with the reduced allocations of the 05s - it will be interesting to see if that actually happens, and if the public are willing to buy up on these at the full price.

Austere wasn't a word that sprang to mind when I tried the 2005 Bin 389, power, extract, acid, length, balance, yes. Austere? Not as I understand the word.

Have Fosters seen tte folly of their ways and given the independents a decent allocation on fairer terms this year?

prices starting to be set in nz now for 2005 bins. looks like they will be the same as last year. looks like 389 will settle at $30-33 at most places for release, could be even smarter at supermarkets.

a good sign, hopefully they taste good too