The Auswine Forum

Hi all,

I have an understairs cupboard that in converting into a small space for my wines of which there wont be more than 50. The area is about 800 wide and 1300 long though there is more space going down under the stairs the floor is more like 2500 long just the stairs get in the way.

I've only been checking the temp the last couple of days at it seems to sit around 20 degrees though it hasn't been tested on a hot day yet. There is not ventilation so my thoughts were, though still wont be ideal temp, to put a vent in the door and then an exhaust fan in the wall at the top (hot air rises) to suck cooler air through the room. I know this will suck away the humidity though i'll have a bucket of water in there and probably wont run the fan 24/7 just during the day.

Any thoughts or ideas will be greatly appreciated as i would mind keeping some for a few years at least. I'm also getting the cellaring Wines book for more ideas too.

Thanks
Andrew

Sarg wrote:Hi all,

I have an understairs cupboard that in converting into a small space for my wines of which there wont be more than 50. The area is about 800 wide and 1300 long though there is more space going down under the stairs the floor is more like 2500 long just the stairs get in the way.

I've only been checking the temp the last couple of days at it seems to sit around 20 degrees though it hasn't been tested on a hot day yet. There is not ventilation so my thoughts were, though still wont be ideal temp, to put a vent in the door and then an exhaust fan in the wall at the top (hot air rises) to suck cooler air through the room. I know this will suck away the humidity though i'll have a bucket of water in there and probably wont run the fan 24/7 just during the day.

Any thoughts or ideas will be greatly appreciated as i would mind keeping some for a few years at least. I'm also getting the cellaring Wines book for more ideas too.

Thanks
Andrew

Andrew, buy a cheap little wine cooler that'll fit in under the stairs and run an extension cord to it. Oh, yeah, and remove the door if it has one.

Seriously.

Cheers

daz

Sarg wrote:Hi all,

I have an understairs cupboard that in converting into a small space for my wines of which there wont be more than 50. The area is about 800 wide and 1300 long though there is more space going down under the stairs the floor is more like 2500 long just the stairs get in the way.

I've only been checking the temp the last couple of days at it seems to sit around 20 degrees though it hasn't been tested on a hot day yet. There is not ventilation so my thoughts were, though still wont be ideal temp, to put a vent in the door and then an exhaust fan in the wall at the top (hot air rises) to suck cooler air through the room. I know this will suck away the humidity though i'll have a bucket of water in there and probably wont run the fan 24/7 just during the day.

Any thoughts or ideas will be greatly appreciated as i would mind keeping some for a few years at least. I'm also getting the cellaring Wines book for more ideas too.

Thanks
Andrew

Andrew, you need to record temps over days/weeks in the hotter season. 20C is not too bad for short-term cellaring, but I suspect it will go a fair bit higher in summer. Under stairs is not ideal as there may be a fair amount of vibration from stair traffic as well as heat issue in this case.

The exhaust fan should have negligible impact on the temperature or humidity, only aircon will suck the moisture out.

For 50-100 bottles, do as DD says.

For further ideas, grab Tyson Stelzer's cellaring wine book. It's only about $10 IIRC and takes you from simple to DIY of the sort that brings me out in a cold sweat. Definitely worth it.

Thanks for the reply's guys. I'm getting a small fridge soon as well and have a freind checking a bookshop in the city today for that book.

Andrew

Having looked into wine storage alternatives recently, I have bought a number of books on this subject, including Tyson Stelzer's.

The best by far has been: "How and Why to Build a Wine Cellar" by Richard M. Gold (4th edition). I bought it from Amazon - highly recommend!

In the end, I opted for a Quaff wine cooler (bought from eBay) - stores around 120 bottles and is attractive enough to place it in your loungeroom (although mine is in the garage at present).

I think thats the way i'm going to go as well, though i'm still going to get Tyson's book.

Drlev how much was the Quaff cooler from ebay?

DavidL wrote:Drlev how much was the Quaff cooler from ebay?

$799 seems expensive for a 30 - 50 capacity cooler.

With all of this crap about how perfect a wine cellar has to be, it makes me wonder how wine made hundreds (or thousands) of years ago, didn't have a use by date of one week stamped on it.....

craig loves shiraz wrote:With all of this crap about how perfect a wine cellar has to be, it makes me wonder how wine made hundreds (or thousands) of years ago, didn't have a use by date of one week stamped on it.....

Because they didn't get the chance to store the wine in the sunny climes of Australia

cheers

Carl

All well and good, but I believe those Spanish have liked an old tipple over the years and from memory, it gets quite warm in that part of the world.

The point is, yes lets take a bit of care in storing our wines, but let's not get to excited over the whole thing.

craig loves shiraz wrote:All well and good, but I believe those Spanish have liked an old tipple over the years and from memory, it gets quite warm in that part of the world.

The point is, yes lets take a bit of care in storing our wines, but let's not get to excited over the whole thing.

The spanish aren't known for their aged wines until recently though. You could argue about Jerez I suppose but it is pretty cool there compared to La Mancha : twisted:

cheers

Carl

I'd have to agree with you on a one of thing Carl... Mainly, yes, serving red wine at room temp in Australia in the peak of Summer might be a little bit ambitious..

But seriously..... All this carry on about maintaining a temperature +/- 2.5 degrees celsius with a +/- 20 Relative humidity of 50% is a little bit OTT. I can guarantee you that even Penfolds themselves can't control that temperature on their RWT, Grange or StHenri when it;'s sitting on th eback of a truck, in a shipping container, or in a warehouse for months on end.

Take care of your wine but don't buy another energy consuming appliance to do it!

craig loves shiraz wrote:I'd have to agree with you on a one of thing Carl... Mainly, yes, serving red wine at room temp in Australia in the peak of Summer might be a little bit ambitious..

But seriously..... All this carry on about maintaining a temperature +/- 2.5 degrees celsius with a +/- 20 Relative humidity of 50% is a little bit OTT. I can guarantee you that even Penfolds themselves can't control that temperature on their RWT, Grange or StHenri when it;'s sitting on th eback of a truck, in a shipping container, or in a warehouse for months on end.

Take care of your wine but don't buy another energy consuming appliance to do it!

I think it comes down to one's environment. I have a passive cellar back in Sydney where I don't mind it rising to 20 or so in Summer but I have a fridge over here in Perth. I don't have air conditioning here and last summer was SERIOUSLY hot! With internal temps over 30 the wine needed some protection.

cheers

Carl

I can tell you what causes the most damage, sudden temperature changes.

i.e. You have something in the fridge for 12mths, take it out and leave it on the bench for 6hrs, then put it back in the fridge, I guarantee you will do some damage. Something slowly rising and falling, such as wine in a dark room or under a house will fare a lot better. Though I do agree, 30C is getting a little bit on the warm side!!

craig loves shiraz wrote:I can tell you what causes the most damage, sudden temperature changes.

i.e. You have something in the fridge for 12mths, take it out and leave it on the bench for 6hrs, then put it back in the fridge, I guarantee you will do some damage. Something slowly rising and falling, such as wine in a dark room or under a house will fare a lot better. Though I do agree, 30C is getting a little bit on the warm side!!

Oh I agree

That's why anything that comes out of the fridge must be consumed post haste!

cheers

Carl

griff wrote:

craig loves shiraz wrote:I can tell you what causes the most damage, sudden temperature changes.

i.e. You have something in the fridge for 12mths, take it out and leave it on the bench for 6hrs, then put it back in the fridge, I guarantee you will do some damage. Something slowly rising and falling, such as wine in a dark room or under a house will fare a lot better. Though I do agree, 30C is getting a little bit on the warm side!!

Oh I agree

That's why anything that comes out of the fridge must be consumed post haste!

cheers

Carl

I'll drink to that...

The Quaff 120 liter unit was about $1599 plus shipping and insurance

What a great idea building a wine cupboard, why take the door off the fridge?

wineworld wrote:What a great idea building a wine cupboard, why take the door off the fridge?

It's easier to get to the wines

griff wrote:

craig loves shiraz wrote:All well and good, but I believe those Spanish have liked an old tipple over the years and from memory, it gets quite warm in that part of the world.

The point is, yes lets take a bit of care in storing our wines, but let's not get to excited over the whole thing.

The spanish aren't known for their aged wines until recently though. You could argue about Jerez I suppose but it is pretty cool there compared to La Mancha : twisted:

cheers

Carl

Traditionally, most of the quality wine made in Spain was aged in the bodega (winery/warehouse/cellar) high up on the Plain and sold 'ready to drink' often 10-20 years after vintage. It would be in barrel for most of that time.

The issue isn't heat as much as tempreature variation. In many areas it can be 35 degrees during the day and 2 degrees overnight. They use very deep cellars to get around this, even for making the wine. Most villages would have a bar/wine seller that had a 10+ meter deep cellar for the storage of wine and other stuff like candles etc. A lot of these have been turned into restaurant now!

shaggy wrote:

griff wrote:

craig loves shiraz wrote:All well and good, but I believe those Spanish have liked an old tipple over the years and from memory, it gets quite warm in that part of the world.

The point is, yes lets take a bit of care in storing our wines, but let's not get to excited over the whole thing.

The spanish aren't known for their aged wines until recently though. You could argue about Jerez I suppose but it is pretty cool there compared to La Mancha : twisted:

cheers

Carl

Traditionally, most of the quality wine made in Spain was aged in the bodega (winery/warehouse/cellar) high up on the Plain and sold 'ready to drink' often 10-20 years after vintage. It would be in barrel for most of that time.

The issue isn't heat as much as tempreature variation. In many areas it can be 35 degrees during the day and 2 degrees overnight. They use very deep cellars to get around this, even for making the wine. Most villages would have a bar/wine seller that had a 10+ meter deep cellar for the storage of wine and other stuff like candles etc. A lot of these have been turned into restaurant now!

Great info! I knew about the bodegas but didn't know about the local cellar for the village wine shop/restaurant. As you said firstly though, most wines were made (EDIT: sold) ready to drink?

cheers

Carl

griff wrote:

shaggy wrote:
Traditionally, most of the quality wine made in Spain was aged in the bodega (winery/warehouse/cellar) high up on the Plain and sold 'ready to drink' often 10-20 years after vintage. It would be in barrel for most of that time.

The issue isn't heat as much as tempreature variation. In many areas it can be 35 degrees during the day and 2 degrees overnight. They use very deep cellars to get around this, even for making the wine. Most villages would have a bar/wine seller that had a 10+ meter deep cellar for the storage of wine and other stuff like candles etc. A lot of these have been turned into restaurant now!

Great info! I knew about the bodegas but didn't know about the local cellar for the village wine shop/restaurant. As you said firstly though, most wines were made (EDIT: sold) ready to drink?

cheers

Carl

Yep, quality wines. Of course there was always a lot of local plonk around that didn't get that kind of treatment. We are talking back to the 1800s, I'm sure they did similar things before that, they had to keep cheese etc in similar conditions too. Actualy a lot of regional villages didn't have power until the early 80s, so they were still doing these things then.

It is one of the many ideas that went into the Crianza or rasing/aging system that is used in some areas of Spain (joven, crianza, reserve, gran reserva etc). Its also why most wines without oak treatment (i.e. joven wines that never made it into the cellar) were to be drunk in the year after vintage