All lining up for the HeritageFW fire sale tomorrow?

GraemeG · Post by **GraemeG** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:26 pm

Huon Hooke wrote in the Herald last week about the first big tranche of Heritage Fine Wine 'investments' being flogged off via Greys Online starting tomorrow. Who's in then? Cheap Grange, cheap Hill of Grace, cheap 'Parker specials'...?
cheers,
Graeme

roughred · Post by **roughred** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:25 pm

The cruel irony of it all Graeme is that with some of the ridiculous prices I have seen some people pay of Gray's, there is every chance the wines will realise more than they ever would have with Heritage had it not gone down in a screaming heap.

LL

KMP · Post by **KMP** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:26 am

Looks like there are two sales -

1) THE HERITAGE LIQUIDATION - RARE WINES INCLUDING GRANGE

2) HERITAGE LIQUIDATION - MASSIVE PREMIUM WINE AUCTION

A tasting event is listed for Tuesday 12th June 2007 from 5:30-7:30pm for both sales - unclear if its just one tasting or two separate events.

Mike

markg · Post by **markg** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:41 am

Well, there goes the neighborhood. Say ta-ta to wine prices over the next,what?, 4 to 6 months. I wonder how many people will snap up these wines with a view to selling them again ? They will be in for a dissapointment unless they plan to hold onto them for quite some time.

Interesting though what the liquidators have said and what they are now doing:
"There will be no massive auction of the wine. Nor will there be an opportunity for buyers to cherry pick," said receiver Nicholas Crouch. "Instead the wine will be sold in an orderly manner."

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:48 am

KMP wrote:Looks like there are two sales -

Mike, although there are more lots in each sale than Grays normally have for their daily wine sales, I suspect these are only the start of the sale process, there are a large number of single bottle lots on both "desirable" and pretty ordinary wines.

Someone has already bid a 2 bottle (not magnums) lot of 97 Wynns John Riddoch up to $214!

n4sir · Post by **n4sir** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:54 am

Interesting to see they have quite a number of bottles of Grange that have failed Penfolds clinics in this lot.

Some of the bottle descriptions (or lack of them) are pretty interesting too - caveat emptor, especially if the prices end up being nowhere like fire-sale cheap.

Cheers,
Ian

mattECN · Post by **mattECN** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:16 am

please excuse my ignorance in regards to Grange, there are a couple bottles of my birth year I am interested in (provided price does not blow out). One of the bottles has gone through the Penfolds Clinic and the other not. If you have bought at auction before what would be best to bid on?

(also I am presuming a white capsule is the original capsule?)

thanks.

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:23 am

n4sir wrote:Interesting to see they have quite a number of bottles of Grange that have failed Penfolds clinics in this lot.

Some of the bottle descriptions (or lack of them) are pretty interesting too - caveat emptor, especially if the prices end up being nowhere like fire-sale cheap.

Cheers,
Ian

Exactly, like that Gotham Shiraz 2004 "made by Troy Kalleske". I believe he consulted in a minor way during it's production.

Also, if you intend on bidding:
Check the Freight Charges carefully. Unless I'm mis-reading it, they freight charge is $10 per item, with 50% discount where items are consolidated into one box within a single auction. This means (for ACT) if you buy 12 single bottles the cost would be $10 + 11 x $5 = $65. If you buy a 1-dozen lot the charge would still be $10. For Adelaide the unit cost is $18.

camw · Post by **camw** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:48 am

A high number of the whites look rather advanced in colour as well. A pretty easy decision for me to let these go.

GRB · Post by **GRB** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:06 pm

Plenty of folks out there with more money than brains. There is a single bottle of 97 407 that is up to $74 which will land it in someones hands for near on $100 the last one on Langtons went for $27 :shock:

This is going to be pretty funny to watch. Can't wait to see what the half full bottle of Grange goes for :twisted:

Glen

Hacker · Post by **Hacker** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:40 pm

I also saw some Kalleske shiraz with the familiar label, but 1999 vintage. Was this a special bottling for Heritage? I thought the 2002 was the first release?

cheers,

David M.

n4sir · Post by **n4sir** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:10 pm

mattECN wrote:please excuse my ignorance in regards to Grange, there are a couple bottles of my birth year I am interested in (provided price does not blow out). One of the bottles has gone through the Penfolds Clinic and the other not. If you have bought at auction before what would be best to bid on?

(also I am presuming a white capsule is the original capsule?)

thanks.

If you have a choice, go for the clinic bottle.

Leigh · Post by **Leigh** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:13 pm

I have bought some wine from this auction site in the past, some very good and some very bad - poor cellaring. I don't know about you but if I am paying a couple of hundred dollars for a 12 pack of excellent wine I would like it to be drinkable. Food for thought.

GraemeG · Post by **GraemeG** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:23 pm

Well, there may be some bargains - especially less well-known stuff (to the non-geeks), but anything with a name is just plain silly. Some wally is bidding $199 for three bottles of 98 Henschke Kyneton. Yikes. I'll spend some time over the next week trawling, but if Brian's summary of the freight is correct you'd want to be bidding on half-dozen lots, or else getting outrageous bargains on single bottles...
cheers,
Graeme

Alex F · Post by **Alex F** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:30 pm

Hmm.

I simply cannot belief some of those prices they are fetching.

But then again I can't believe the prices grays fetch accross all their auctions, well from my perspective namely wine and computer/IT stuff.

Daryl Douglas · Post by **Daryl Douglas** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:24 am

NO!

....in answer to the question before reading any other responses to it.

I prefer not to play the auctions game. Reliable retailers offering quality wines at good prices below rrp are my preference, along with well-priced offerings direct from the wineries which produce them. The movie "Deer Hunter" cured me of playing russian roulette. But for some, it's only money. Oh yeah, and I'm sceptical of Gray's auctions.

The hitting on both sides of the transaction for revenue sucks.

Good luck to all of the punters

daz

Maximus · Post by **Maximus** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:32 am

Is it possible that the reason for some of these ridiculous prices hinges on sellers buying back their own wine at inflated prices to support their own superannuation fund, where the investment may have come from in the first place? I'm totally ignorant of how the system works, but there must be some reason surely.

GraemeG · Post by **GraemeG** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:44 am

Some of the silly pricing may be due to ignorance of what wines really fetch at auction on an ongoing basis. Look at the prices people used to ask for Grange in the Trading Post newspaper and it's non-Sydney equivalents, for example. THose sort of 'buyers' will have a field day being separated from their money (could be the same sort of folks who invested in Heritage to begin with).
This notion of stiffing both the buyer and seller is a bit rich; as I recall the Langtons commission was only 5% for the buyer 10 years ago, and a friend of mine gave up buying art at Lawsons when they imposed a buyers commission (ie. up from zero to 5%).
At least the erx-Heritage stuff is supposed to have been correctly stored - anyone managing to buy a case of Balnaves red for <$100 wouldn't be complaining too much...
cheers,
Graeme

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:09 am

GraemeG wrote:This notion of stiffing both the buyer and seller is a bit rich; as I recall the Langtons commission was only 5% for the buyer 10 years ago, and a friend of mine gave up buying art at Lawsons when they imposed a buyers commission (ie. up from zero to 5%).

Langtons charge a variable sellers commission (??-15%) and a fixed buyers commission of 15%, plus fairly expensive freight and insurance, I haven't asked yet about how to not pay the insurance, I generally only buy in Sydney where I can pick it up or get someone to collect it.

Grand Cru · Post by **Grand Cru** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:20 am

I reckon most of these sales will be a joke.

I just want to know how I can get my stuff that's worth $30 into their auction and get $70!

Auctions of all types never cease to amaze me, it's where human greed over rides common sense.

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:28 am

Grand Cru wrote:I reckon most of these sales will be a joke.

I just want to know how I can get my stuff that's worth $30 into their auction and get $70!

Auctions of all types never cease to amaze me, it's where human greed over rides common sense.

Yeah, it's pretty funny, but I have my eye on a few 6-pack / dozen lots that haven't attracted much attention yet, to buy to share amongst some friends.

GraemeG · Post by **GraemeG** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:52 pm

Red Bigot wrote:Yeah, it's pretty funny, but I have my eye on a few 6-pack / dozen lots that haven't attracted much attention yet, to buy to share amongst some friends.

Trust you're not in the market for the single bottle of Chain of Ponds 99 Chardonnay, current bid $34! Or the pair of 97 Wynns John Riddoch's, a bargain at $244! :roll:

cheers,
Graeme

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:42 pm

GraemeG wrote:
Red Bigot wrote:Yeah, it's pretty funny, but I have my eye on a few 6-pack / dozen lots that haven't attracted much attention yet, to buy to share amongst some friends.

Trust you're not in the market for the single bottle of Chain of Ponds 99 Chardonnay, current bid $34! Or the pair of 97 Wynns John Riddoch's, a bargain at $244!
cheers,
Graeme

No, or the Henschke 98 Louis Semillon for $64 or the 2001 Langmeil 5th Wave grenache @ $44 or the 99 Fox Ck merlot @ $49. Do some of these people think they are bidding on 6-packs or cases rather than single bottles? Someone has bid $89 for 2 bottles of 2003 Primo Il Briccone Shiraz-Sangiovese and right next to it is a case of 12 sitting at $74. Maybe all the free publicity in the press has brought out another batch of "investors" as gullible and lacking in knowledge as the first wave?

And I'm not telling what I have my eye on either, although the list is getting shorter already as the premature bidders wade in. :-(

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:43 pm

Maximus wrote:Is it possible that the reason for some of these ridiculous prices hinges on sellers buying back their own wine at inflated prices to support their own superannuation fund, where the investment may have come from in the first place? I'm totally ignorant of how the system works, but there must be some reason surely.

Not these auctions, I believe they are for wine still in the hands of the receiver, being sold to recoup his fees. And I think there are a lot of easier and more efficient ways of getting funds into your super fund prior to 30 June than letting auctioneers cream off up to 30%.

Hacker · Post by **Hacker** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:31 pm

Hacker wrote:I also saw some Kalleske shiraz with the familiar label, but 1999 vintage. Was this a special bottling for Heritage? I thought the 2002 was the first release?

cheers,

David M.

Bump!

Anyone know the answer to this? Thanks.

Red Bigot · Post by **Red Bigot** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:48 pm

Hacker wrote:
Hacker wrote:I also saw some Kalleske shiraz with the familiar label, but 1999 vintage. Was this a special bottling for Heritage? I thought the 2002 was the first release?

cheers,

David M.

Bump!

Anyone know the answer to this? Thanks.

Haven't seen it, what's the item number? May be a mistaken vintage?

707 · Post by **707** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:30 pm

Hacker wrote:I also saw some Kalleske shiraz with the familiar label, but 1999 vintage. Was this a special bottling for Heritage? I thought the 2002 was the first release? cheers, David M.

I asked Troy about this last week when I was up there. He processed a tonne of Shiraz as part of his winemaking studies. Made at Rolf Binders and only released to friends & family.

Not sure how these bottles ended up with Heritage but worth a try if they don't get to silly prices as 1999 is a strong vintage and even a fledling Troy under the guiding hand of the master Rolf should be good.

Hacker · Post by **Hacker** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:27 am

Red Bigot wrote:
Hacker wrote:
Hacker wrote:I also saw some Kalleske shiraz with the familiar label, but 1999 vintage. Was this a special bottling for Heritage? I thought the 2002 was the first release?

cheers,

David M.

Bump!

Anyone know the answer to this? Thanks.

Haven't seen it, what's the item number? May be a mistaken vintage?

number 279 and 280 in the premium wine auction (not the Grange one)

Thanks Steve for the expanation.

cheers,

David M.

GraemeG · Post by **GraemeG** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:32 pm

Better get in quick! A single bottle of 94 Bin 389 a bargain at just $114. If only I could get a case at that price. Of course, $16 commission and $10 worth of freight (hmm, taking cost to $140) reduce the attraction somewhat...
I'm starting to think Heritage's business model wasn't so bad after all, they just tried to sell the wine in the wrong place...!
cheers,
Graeme

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All lining up for the HeritageFW fire sale tomorrow?

All lining up for the HeritageFW fire sale tomorrow?

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